I really do not understand what the point you're trying to make is; if it's the parents agree, their child can be buggered senseless?LHC posted on Aug 11 2004 at 10:31 AM said:If a child molester says "Hay can i fuck your child" and then they reply "yeah sure". Never going to happen, mind you.
Obviously in other cases it would be an initiation of force, which is what the government should be there to stop.
Maybe you should check out some foreign countries were this happens every day. When people don't have money to feed themselves they sometimes do silly things.LHC posted on Aug 11 2004 at 10:31 AM said:If a child molester says "Hay can i fuck your child" and then they reply "yeah sure". Never going to happen, mind you.
What, selling a service in exchange for money?!? Heaven forbid!Maybe you should check out some foreign countries were this happens every day. When people don't have money to feed themselves they sometimes do silly things.
IndeedYou obviously don't agree with these laws, feeling they limit the freedom to do what you want with your own body
We should stop people being forced to do things they don't want to do. What we shouldn't do is tell then what they want to do, when they want to do it, and at what arbitrary age barrier they are allowed to do it, because person x wanted to do it at age y.but you forget when and why these laws have been instated. They are not there to stop children from doing what they want to do, they are there to make sure children can't be forced to do things they don't want to do.
UnfairThey have been enstated because parents, employers and children can not be trusted to deal with this themselves.
Almost everyone is manipulated every day of their lives; this 'people suddenly become responsible after the age of X' idea seems hideously wrong and contradicts almost the entirity of my personal experiences. How many 16/17/18/40/41 year olds do you know who consistently make educated rational decisions, seriously?It is quite easy to put pressure on children or simply talk them into doing things they normally would not want to do or that they will regret later in life.
There is a limitation: you are forced to be a child untill the age of sixteen to ensure you will be able to actually be a child.
If child, parent and offender agree then sure.Mark posted on Aug 11 2004 at 10:31 AM said:I really do not understand what the point you're trying to make is; if it's the parents agree, their child can be buggered senseless?LHC posted on Aug 11 2004 at 10:31 AM said:If a child molester says "Hay can i fuck your child" and then they reply "yeah sure". Never going to happen, mind you.
Obviously in other cases it would be an initiation of force, which is what the government should be there to stop.
OK, what if the molester IS the parent, this is completely illegal but falls into the boundaries of your ruleLHC posted on Aug 11 2004 at 11:52 AM said:If child, parent and offender agree then sure.Mark posted on Aug 11 2004 at 10:31 AM said:I really do not understand what the point you're trying to make is; if it's the parents agree, their child can be buggered senseless?LHC posted on Aug 11 2004 at 10:31 AM said:If a child molester says "Hay can i fuck your child" and then they reply "yeah sure". Never going to happen, mind you.
Obviously in other cases it would be an initiation of force, which is what the government should be there to stop.
So you have no problems with rich pedophiles going to poor countries and having sex with little boys that agree with this because they need the money to live?LHC posted on Aug 11 2004 at 12:51 PM said:What, selling a service in exchange for money?!? Heaven forbid!Maybe you should check out some foreign countries were this happens every day. When people don't have money to feed themselves they sometimes do silly things.
UnfairThey have been enstated because parents, employers and children can not be trusted to deal with this themselves.
Almost everyone is manipulated every day of their lives; this 'people suddenly become responsible after the age of X' idea seems hideously wrong and contradicts almost the entirity of my personal experiences. How many 16/17/18/40/41 year olds do you know who consistently make educated rational decisions, seriously?It is quite easy to put pressure on children or simply talk them into doing things they normally would not want to do or that they will regret later in life.
There is a limitation: you are forced to be a child untill the age of sixteen to ensure you will be able to actually be a child.
Which is preferable? The sex with the man or the death?So you have no problems with rich pedophiles going to poor countries and having sex with little boys that agree with this because they need the money to live?
I don't see what employers have to do with this, but still. Employers aren't there as a charity case. They are there to achieve profit for themselves, and the workers are there means to that end. If the employees agreed contractually to accept the conditions of working, they take the risk. The alternative is to not work there.What is unfair about saying parents, employers and children can not be trusted with that? At the time those laws were created children were forced to work under horrible circumstances (often dying while doing this), employers couldn't care less and parents and children were forced because they really needed that money.
Emotional blackmail is an initiation of force, so no it wouldn't.Children are being abused by their own parents for child-pornography. Sometimes children agree to do this because their parents blackmail them saying things like "but you want mommy and daddy to love you don't you?". Your suggestion would make this legal.
Yes I agree. We should outlaw bad decisions. :rolleyes:What you seem to forget is that a child can easily be tricked into making pictures with this friendly gentleman in exchange for a shiny toy. This might be something you regret when later in life all your childhood pictures are you and 'uncle John' in the nude. Are you seriously suggesting that children at any age are as capable to oversee the results of their actions as adults are? To do this you need a level of abstract thinking that is simply not developed in children yet.
It's very easy to say that actually agreeing to do something also means that you want to do it. Children are often not in the position to change their lives: if you refuse where will you live, who will look after you, how will you get food, will you still be loved? Children have very limited power and control over their own circumstances (how many times did you get to stay up as late as you wanted?). You are simply taking this out of the equation and suggest that children have as much negotiation power as anybody else.LHC posted on Aug 11 2004 at 01:24 PM said:Which is preferable? The sex with the man or the death?So you have no problems with rich pedophiles going to poor countries and having sex with little boys that agree with this because they need the money to live?
I don't see what employers have to do with this, but still. Employers aren't there as a charity case. They are there to achieve profit for themselves, and the workers are there means to that end. If the employees agreed contractually to accept the conditions of working, they take the risk. The alternative is to not work there.What is unfair about saying parents, employers and children can not be trusted with that? At the time those laws were created children were forced to work under horrible circumstances (often dying while doing this), employers couldn't care less and parents and children were forced because they really needed that money.
Emotional blackmail is an initiation of force, so no it wouldn't.Children are being abused by their own parents for child-pornography. Sometimes children agree to do this because their parents blackmail them saying things like "but you want mommy and daddy to love you don't you?". Your suggestion would make this legal.
Yes I agree. We should outlaw bad decisions. :rolleyes:What you seem to forget is that a child can easily be tricked into making pictures with this friendly gentleman in exchange for a shiny toy. This might be something you regret when later in life all your childhood pictures are you and 'uncle John' in the nude. Are you seriously suggesting that children at any age are as capable to oversee the results of their actions as adults are? To do this you need a level of abstract thinking that is simply not developed in children yet.
First person to refer to need, loses? I hope so.It's very easy to say that actually agreeing to do something also means that you want to do it. Children are often not in the position to change their lives: if you refuse where will you live, who will look after you, how will you get food, will you still be loved?
This is meaningless. It's not only children that have less negotiation skills than anybody else. Many adults are better at negotiating than others.Children have very limited power and control over their own circumstances (how many times did you get to stay up as late as you wanted?). You are simply taking this out of the equation and suggest that children have as much negotiation power as anybody else.
I'll repeat that I don't think that employers should have ever had a responsibility to be slaves to their workers, and then point out that this socialisation of the work place has meant profits have been stolen from employers and we now have a welfare state.The laws you are objecting have taken the power position from parents and employers, they simply were not allowed to do what they did before. Because of this the exploitation of children on a massive scale disappeared from western countries. What was normal before would not be accepted today thanks to these laws, not thanks to employers and caretakers
It shouldn't be the jurisdiction of the government to decide which two people can have a relationship. Because private property in healthcare doesn't exist you could probably claim that as the government owns the doctors and therefore it is their choice whom they ban their employees from seeing. It's not just doctors who have power over patients. It happens in other relationships; money earners ofter have the power over the other partner.You might suggest we can now safely abandon these laws becasue the situation has changed but even today we have rules about sexual contact between employers and employees and docters and patients. We have those for the exact same reason: the power postion is not balanced.
Do you expect that banning bad decisions will allow people's 'abstract thinking skills' to develop?It is also very easy to just ignore the comment about abstract thinking and making this into 'bad decisions'. Abstract thinking and overseeing your own actions isn't something you are born with, you have to develop these skills. If you lack abstract thinking you can't oversee the results of your actions and therefore can't make life decisions (it's why we do not allow severely retarded people to make all decisions for themselves).
This is different as two year olds can not make bad decisions on such a scale; they can not make decisions at all. This is their parent's job, and if they do something to the child, the child will not be consenting and such would be an initiation of force.Are you really suggesting we put two year olds in charge of their life?
RoboJoe32 said:Your mother should have received a darwin award for bringing such a goddamn fucking prick of a bastard white trash child into this fucking world... Normally i'm a reasonable guy... But you're a fucking asshole. Go do the world a favor and curl up and die in a fucking gutter, FUCKING. DIE.... You prolly will anyways, either from your own sad demise or someone tireing of your fucking mouth. If someone YOU care about dies the next day it'd only be fucking fitting... Wait, you love no one because NO ONE loves you... Did your father beat you or something as a child to fuck you up so badly? Really? What THE FUCK is your problem?
Who did he say that to?Rico posted on Aug 11 2004 at 02:11 PM said:RoboJoe32 said:Your mother should have received a darwin award for bringing such a goddamn fucking prick of a bastard white trash child into this fucking world... Normally i'm a reasonable guy... But you're a fucking asshole. Go do the world a favor and curl up and die in a fucking gutter, FUCKING. DIE.... You prolly will anyways, either from your own sad demise or someone tireing of your fucking mouth. If someone YOU care about dies the next day it'd only be fucking fitting... Wait, you love no one because NO ONE loves you... Did your father beat you or something as a child to fuck you up so badly? Really? What THE FUCK is your problem?
Sound familiar...?
It's so easy to think like that. As Rico says, it's completly narrowminded.RoboJoe32 posted on Aug 11 2004 at 03:09 PM said:My GOD at the people sympathizeing for these freaks...
"They can't help it" "Blah blah" Oh bullshit, So I supposed people who get off on necrophilia and killing people can't help it either?
Rapists, child molestors, pedophiles, kidnappers, all of them make me sick to my stomach to even HEAR about...
They are the LOWEST of the low, the most cowardly bastards ever, and the most sick and twisted.
And people are trying to defend them? Wtf IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?!?
Sometimes you guys really disappoint me. :angry: