Pandora's Next Competitor - The Iphone!

[sindbad]

How much premium do you think they add on for OS X? My guess is not much, apple seems to charge a lot more for their hardware (look at the ridiculous price they charge for memory upgrades)

It's not so much about the cost, since os x is about 100-200$, but it would save me the hassle of installing ubuntu myself and they would have to ship proper drivers for wifi, not needing ndiswrapper (hint for apple: use atheros).

 

[AireTamStorm]

Anything with a CPU (+MMU, lets not start comparing stopwatches here) in it can be compared as a computer. Ultimately the goal here is to compare what each computer offers its user base with in terms of features and benefits. The Pandora is a computer, the PSP is a computer, the EEE is a computer, the iPhone is a computer. The servers running Google are computers. You're sure as hell using a computer to read this text and some of the people surfing these forums here are wondering what all these computers can do. That being said, pure specs DON'T say what each has to offer, so I'm doubling up the sheet with Features / Benefits.

That still doesn't mean all these different computers gotta be compared. I'm not tying to tell you what to do, I just dont get it. Also it clearly states on the top of the post "Pandora's Next Competitor -The Iphone!" See how comparisons can sorta look a little fanboy-ish?(No offence, not atually calling you a fanboy, and I know you didn't start this topic) The last was "Pandora vs. Eee pc" Debate? Versus? Its like you are comparing things to make pandora the winner. Not everything needs to be a competition.

EDIT: spelling and junk


"Versus" doesn't necessarily mean Street-Fighter style "who is better".

 

[phi6]

I have an iPhone and i've been following it for a while now. There's a pretty buzzing development community, plenty of games out at the moment if you have jailbroken the phone (which most people have). Once the SDK is out in full, it'll also attract the commercial big guys too.

I also don't think the $99 developer fee will hamper homebrew development too much.

And finally, despite tactile controls, there's still quite a bit of potential especially with the accelerometer which could bring in some really innovative gaming (think wii)

It may be more of a competitor to the Pandora than you may think! (I will be getting the Pandora anyhow)

Here's some videos that definitely got me salivating...

Possibly some upcoming commercial games using the official SDK:
Touch Fighter Demo
Sega's Super Monkey Ball
EA's Spore
Quake 3 Demo (testing the 3d engine for Space Trader)

Games already out (jailbroken community effort)
Kenta Cho's rRootage
Kenta Cho's noiz2sa
TTR (Tap Tap Revolution)


Some really innovative ideas (already out!)
iPhysics
Trism
Labyrinth
CubicMan


And of course Zodttd's ports of existing GP2X emulators (GBA,Genesis,SNES,GameBoy and PSX)
I think the futures really bright there...

 

[sold]

Collins Essential English Dictionary 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2004, 2006

versus
prep
1. (in a sporting competition or lawsuit) against
2. in opposition to or in contrast with: man versus machine [Latin: turned (in the direction of), opposite]

And here is the definition of constrast : http://www.thefreedictionary.com/contrast

And finally, depending on the context in which it is used compare (as a verb) can mean contrast, balance, weigh, set against, collate, juxtapose, liken to etc.

"Versus" doesn't necessarily mean Street-Fighter style "who is better"?

I believe it does actually. Basically means against. Opposite. Any way you look at it in the context that you used it. And it is fair to say that the very nature of the word implies competition.

E.g. Your topic: "Pandora Vs Eee Pc Specifications". And beneath that you add, "Time to end the debate once and for all".

You might as well said "Eee pc vs Pandora - Now we kung-fu fight!"

Such comparisons as the ones you are making are of a competitive nature. You want to see which is better. Which one wins. Its is exactly in the same context as used in Street Fighter. You are setting one thing against another TO SEE WHICH IS SUPERIOR!

So there

Edit: Spelling and rearranging

 

[quartercast]

Yes.. but superior at WHAT, is the question. A question which only you can answer, possibly after reading the spec sheet.

 

[StealthBagel]

And i dont think apple would make it Open Source

Not trying to single you out, DTH-- this is a common trend... I wish people would stop confusing "You can make software for it without hacking" and "The entire operating system and all its software have source available to the public". They don't mean even remotely the same thing and having an open source OS isn't needed to let people write their own software for the machine...

Either way back to the topic at hand, nothing with a touchscreen and nothing else will ever be a viable gaming platform, even the PSP's mediocre controls doom a lot of software you try and run on it. A touchscreen is useless.

 

[onisac]

I cannot judge the apples pricing by the hardware they use, but comparing their prices in US $ to € just bothers me a lot. I suppose the US market is their main target and since it's an US american company they probably calculate their prices in US $ and adapt that price to the other currencys in their other markets. Also I'm not aware of the american taxes but I guess it's lower than the one we have in Germany (19%).

MacBook Pro in the US: 1999$
MacBook Pro in Germany: 1799€

That's really a shame. If it's allowed for the multinational companys to benefit from globalisation, I want to benefit from it too.

 

[Chip]

And i dont think apple would make it Open Source

Not trying to single you out, DTH-- this is a common trend... I wish people would stop confusing "You can make software for it without hacking" and "The entire operating system and all its software have source available to the public". They don't mean even remotely the same thing and having an open source OS isn't needed to let people write their own software for the machine...

Either way back to the topic at hand, nothing with a touchscreen and nothing else will ever be a viable gaming platform, even the PSP's mediocre controls doom a lot of software you try and run on it. A touchscreen is useless.


+1 on "open to development" vs "open source". Apple's SDK may be somewhat limited, but it's a hell of a lot more than most cell phones give you to work with. In the US, the cell providers have the manufacturers lock down the phones so that customers must go through them to add any software - and pay for it. I'm not a fan of the iphone, but at least they got headed in the right direction... Eventually.

Speaking of not being a fan of the iphone, I'd like to point out again that this whole discussion is based on an article with a ridiculously flawed main premise. There is exactly zero evidence that Apple is even working on an iphone 2 yet, let alone any word of what hardware it might use.

I cannot judge the apples pricing by the hardware they use, but comparing their prices in US $ to € just bothers me a lot. I suppose the US market is their main target and since it's an US american company they probably calculate their prices in US $ and adapt that price to the other currencys in their other markets. Also I'm not aware of the american taxes but I guess it's lower than the one we have in Germany (19%).

If that German price is after tax, then yes, the taxes have a lot to do with it. US prices are always quoted pre-tax because every state has a different sales tax rate. Most states are between 5% and 8%, with none that I know of over 10%. Some states don't have any sales tax.

If the German price is before tax, then sorry, you're just getting screwed.

 

[sindbad]

If that German price is after tax, then yes, the taxes have a lot to do with it. US prices are always quoted pre-tax because every state has a different sales tax rate. Most states are between 5% and 8%, with none that I know of over 10%. Some states don't have any sales tax.

If the German price is before tax, then sorry, you're just getting screwed.

Taxes in Germany are usually 19%, up to an extra 4% can be applied in certain conditions (never did get that part).

 

[javaJake]

I still think this side-by-side comparison just plain won't work because the two devices are NOT in the same league-- new people will see that, think the EEE is just better, and not read/give credit to the "size" part at all. The EEE is a *ultra-mobile computer*. The Pandora is a *handheld*. Notice the part that says you can HOLD it in your HAND

Seriosly,why are these comparisons being made at all?

Gaze into my eyes and repeat after me: "Comparisons are good. Comparisons are fun. Let's all make comparisons together!" Now it's time for a group hug.

(And on the other side of town, a more serious discussion can be found...)

Comparisons are good to keep things in perspective, I think. Everyone knows what they need, and looking at a comparison helps people find what fits that need. Really, there should be a focus on software functionality as well, and not just the hardware, since that is as much of a deciding factor as hardware.

 

[randomhack]

+1 on "open to development" vs "open source". Apple's SDK may be somewhat limited, but it's a hell of a lot more than most cell phones give you to work with. In the US, the cell providers have the manufacturers lock down the phones so that customers must go through them to add any software - and pay for it. I'm not a fan of the iphone, but at least they got headed in the right direction... Eventually.



If I understand correctly, users are constrained to only install stuff bought from Apple App Store on your iphone. The constrain on developers are that
1) You need a Mac to develop.
2) You need to pay $99 to distribute any apps through apple app store.
3) If your app is paid, then you also need to pay a portion of revenue to apple.
4) Apple may not include your app in the store if it doesnt want to since it looks like including or not including your app is pretty much to the discretion of Apple.

None of the above constraints exist on the Pandora.

QUOTE

Speaking of not being a fan of the iphone, I'd like to point out again that this whole discussion is based on an article with a ridiculously flawed main premise. There is exactly zero evidence that Apple is even working on an iphone 2 yet, let alone any word of what hardware it might use.




Btw this article also discusses the rumor : http://beyond3d.com/content/news/638
You are right though. The fact the Samsung licensed it doesnt mean its coming to the iPhone. But even if the rumor is true, and the stuff does come to iphone, I dont believe it has any relevance to the Pandora.

 

[Chip]

None of the above constraints exist on the Pandora.

I was referring to the iphone being more open in comparison to other phones. Despite the title of this thread, it didn't even occur to me to compare the "openness" of the iphone to Pandora. It just seemed too obvious.

The point I'm trying to make is if you're going to hate on the iphone, do it for the right reasons. Don't hate it because it's "closed", hate it because it's hideously overpriced, is locked to a terrible carrier, has godawful slow data, and doesn't have any actual buttons.

 

[shmuck]

The point I'm trying to make is if you're going to hate on the iphone, do it for the right reasons. Don't hate it because it's "closed"

That's... Well, I'll grant you that the iPhone is more open than most other phones. How 'bout we hate it to a somewhat lesser degree?

Saying that the iPhone is "open" just because other phones are even worse doesn't work so great. The SDK on the iPhone is almost exactly on par with the one for the Xbox 360 - you pay to use it, you use it only on Microsoft's/Apple's platform, once you've developed your app (or game) you cross your fingers and hope that MS/Apple will take it, if they do take it you sell only through MS's/Apple's store, and Microsoft/Apple takes a cut on every sale.

(edit: Alright, this was already said. Hopefully the comparison to Microsoft will drive the point home.)

This is more than previous consoles/phones have allowed you to do, but it's still a very nasty practice. When you compare the iPhone to something that actually is open, it doesn't come out in a good light.

 

[randomhack]

That's... Well, I'll grant you that the iPhone is more open than most other phones. How 'bout we hate it to a somewhat lesser degree?

Saying that the iPhone is "open" just because other phones are even worse doesn't work so great. The SDK on the iPhone is almost exactly on par with the one for the Xbox 360 - you pay to use it, you use it only on Microsoft's/Apple's platform, once you've developed your app (or game) you cross your fingers and hope that MS/Apple will take it, if they do take it you sell only through MS's/Apple's store, and Microsoft/Apple takes a cut on every sale.

(edit: Alright, this was already said. Hopefully the comparison to Microsoft will drive the point home.)

This is more than previous consoles/phones have allowed you to do, but it's still a very nasty practice. When you compare the iPhone to something that actually is open, it doesn't come out in a good light.


What about windows mobile? I didnt like the OS particularly but if you have a windows mobile phone the user should still be able to install any app from any source he/she likes. For the developer, MS does charge for visual studio (there is no express version for mobile) but you can also make-do with something like Pelles.

Android should also be similar and you also get a free SDK. Google also promise to release much of the source code but as of now thats only a promise. OpenMoko of course is even more open.

edit : And thats just for phones. If we go for internet tablets, theres Maemo on nokia tablets and also Qtopia for all kinds of devices. So iPhone may be more open than some other phone platforms, there do exist many phone platforms which give much more freedom than iPhone. Whether it makes it "hateable" or not, I do not care. I neither love nor hate the device or the company.

 

[Dutch_Cap]

OS X is the absolute best desktop operating system ever given to mankind.

You've obviously never used BeOS or RiscOS.

 

[craigix]

OS X is the absolute best desktop operating system ever given to mankind.

You've obviously never used BeOS or RiscOS.


Or Windows XP. OOooohhhh....

 

[quartercast]

Or DOS. Ahhhh, blackness ;D

 

[DTH]

And i dont think apple would make it Open Source

Not trying to single you out, DTH-- this is a common trend... I wish people would stop confusing "You can make software for it without hacking" and "The entire operating system and all its software have source available to the public". They don't mean even remotely the same thing and having an open source OS isn't needed to let people write their own software for the machine...

Either way back to the topic at hand, nothing with a touchscreen and nothing else will ever be a viable gaming platform, even the PSP's mediocre controls doom a lot of software you try and run on it. A touchscreen is useless.


Oh okay,sorry man, didnt know

 

[sindbad]

I just remembered that someone posted a wishlist custom case for the openmoko neo (or freerunner) over here.

 

[chad78]

Speaking of not being a fan of the iphone, I'd like to point out again that this whole discussion is based on an article with a ridiculously flawed main premise. There is exactly zero evidence that Apple is even working on an iphone 2 yet, let alone any word of what hardware it might use.
Well... There is now.

And there are games.

And there will soon be game controls.

And the iPhone is only $199 now, (or it will be on July 11, when the 3G model ships.)

[edit]fixed quote - Chip said it[/edit]