Pandora Pandora Tower Defense In 3D

[fusion_power]

like many people, I like Tower defense games but there is a lack of playable Options for the Pandora. So how about a dedicated Pandora TD game that takes advantage of all the Power, our Handheld has?
I have no coding skills so I can't do it, however I've made some low-poly models with Blender, this was actualy a great exercise because now I know how UV Mapping works.
here is a screenshot of my entire Work I did the last weeks (yes, it took a while, I'm not THAT pro )



The Towers have between 45 and 266 vertics (big Tower in the distance with the blue roofs is more an concept, made this out from an model with 144K vertexes (!) just for testing how a image of an complex model works onto an simple model as texture), the entire scene on the screen has 1200 vertics/ 680 faces (still quads) and the textures are mostly 8 Bit colour in 256x256 pixels all far under 100kb each (I love optimizing this stuff ^^), so no real challenge for the Pandora I guess. Of course the Game will have projectiles, more towers on screen and enemies so a GOOD and effective 3D engine is still required for best results. Cannon Tower and Ballista Tower are planed to be animated (turn, moving up and down), rest is static. The game could be top down or isometric view, with or without orthographic camera, with or without zoom, with or without movable Camera, what ever works best. I can't make Enemies or animated stuff but maybe this could be an inspiration for some skilled people to do the first 3D TD game for Pandora.

 

[mcobit]

Good idea and nice graphics!
Hope someone can make this come true

 

[CPUnltd]

I agree!!! on both statements...

 

[fusion_power]

Good idea and nice graphics!
Hope someone can make this come true

Hey, you've made 66 entries in the Pandora repo, congratulations, this qualifies you for this Job. My first catch already is a real, living coder, not bad. Gonna catch 'em all!

 

[CPUnltd]

HAHA!!!!

 

[fusion_power]

HAHA!!!!

You sound like a coder too! Come on, you don't need to be shy.

 

[CPUnltd]

nope, haven't even got around to learning yet... come try me again next year...

 

[torpor]

Take the Wakebreaker sources, load your models in, and you've got half the game.

 

[fusion_power]

Take the Wakebreaker sources, load your models in, and you've got half the game.

Sorry, I've got headaches when it comes even close to coding. We have so many motivated and talented coders here (at least I thought) so is there nobody without passion and enough time to make an awesome Tower Defense Game? Or is it just no fun to code (3D) stuff for the Pandora? :unsure:

 

[Pickle]

We have so many motivated and talented coders here (at least I thought) so is there nobody without passion and enough time to make an awesome Tower Defense Game? Or is it just no fun to code (3D) stuff for the Pandora? :unsure:

Im currently working on a different type of game but requires 3d models. The experience gained so far I believe I could do a tower defense. But I need to finish what ive started, and ive been looking for other to help with models, so if you want to help with models let me know

 

[fusion_power]

Sounds interesting, what is this for a game you are working on?
I guess it would be also nice to know which 3D objects format the engine supports, blender can export to alot of formats I just didn't done this yet.
But I'm still learning and I've choosen simple Towers for a reason, because they have a simple shape and usualy 4 equal sites, pretty easy to texture(just paint one side and repeat it for all sides). When it comes to more complex stuff or even "organic" models like creatures, I guess it needs a more talented guy. my UV Maps are really messy by the way. :rolleyes:

however, I just post some more pictures of my experiments. I modeled this Watchtower more or less after a real Resin Model. Also was an interesting exercise, I mainly used procedual Blender mAterials for the Surface.

It has over 140k vertexes so it would be only usable for Unreal3 or Crysis2 Engine or stuff like this.

But I just made an simple 3D Model with only 266 vertexes of this tower and used the render images from the complex model as texture. Needed some adjustments but worked better than I thought.

It is actualy to good compared to my "hand drawn" textures of the other Towers, breaks the style imho. ^^"

 

[foxblock]

Personally I would love a Tower Defense / Wars type of game on the Pandora, because I usually get addicted to that stuff.
But I want to ask the question, why 3D? The game will be played from a top-down or slightly angled isometric (which then isn't isometric anymore, but maybe you get the idea) view, as anything else will usually result in a loss of overview and handicapped gameplay.
That alone would be a good reason for 2D, but it is also less work as especially with a TD game you don't need to do that many animations.

Then again I am very biased on the matter (have yet to get into 3D stuff, maybe I never will)

Some game to show off the graphics ability of the Pandora would be great, but I guess a TD game with relatively static gameplay is not the best choice.
On that note, I still have to give Trenched (the latest game by Double Fine a try, which looks and sounds gorgeous - http://www.trenchedgame.com/ ) a try. It implements some neat variations on the usual TD gameplay to solve the main problem of that format, static gameplay and helplessness when monsters are attacking.
Something like that would be awesome on the Pandora

A word on the models, they look great, but I think it would help to go more "extreme". The tower models, while looking differently, don't display what function that particular tower has (which is essential to enhance the overview) -they could be upgrades to the base wooden tower of course.
The cannon or crossbow are perfect in that regard imo as they immediately suggest what they do (splash/piece damage - possibly low/high range).
The TD maps for Warcraft III get this across very nicely in most cases, choosing very extreme models for ice/fire towers (ice cubes/burning monsters).
So I could imagine a turret with a mounted minigun (rapid fire obviously), a camouflaged tower with snipers on top (long range, slow fire, high damage), etc. (if you want to keep a more realistic style - otherwise you could just go full extreme WC3 like).

Eventually I might get into making one of those games, but it will be 2D most likely, still if there are good reasons for 3D (like 3rd-person-view controllable heroes or taking control over single towers to align shots manually and take out key-targets) I would probably enjoy a 3D version just as much (just get the camera right ).

 

[Magic Sam]

Hi,

Slightly off topic: does anyone know where Alex (SQDEF) is ?

He would be the perfect coder for this kind of game IMO.

I miss this guy from the GP2X days, and Ruckage too

I thought they would both jump in the Pandora train, seems I was wrong...

Anyway, thanks fusion_power for your work, I'll follow this project closely.

Bye, Magic Sam

 

[fusion_power]

Personally I would love a Tower Defense / Wars type of game on the Pandora, because I usually get addicted to that stuff.
But I want to ask the question, why 3D? The game will be played from a top-down or slightly angled isometric (which then isn't isometric anymore, but maybe you get the idea) view, as anything else will usually result in a loss of overview and handicapped gameplay.
That alone would be a good reason for 2D, but it is also less work as especially with a TD game you don't need to do that many animations.

to show what the Pandora can do? ^^
and because I just made the Towers 3D. You can render them in orthographic iso mode but then they are not detailed enough. For this, a real talented 2D Pixel Artist would be the better choice.
3D also gives you more possible viewing perspectives, it still can be limited like I suggested. 3D also would give you correct shadows 'n stuff if the engine is powerful enough. I agree that 3D only works for TD if the whole controling/camera aspect is done right. It can work, like in "Demigod", not quite TD but close. Warcraft 3 also is 3D but the view is more or less 2D top down iso, I imagine same for this game here.

A word on the models, they look great, but I think it would help to go more "extreme". The tower models, while looking differently, don't display what function that particular tower has (which is essential to enhance the overview) -they could be upgrades to the base wooden tower of course.

Well, I tried to keep the towers as simple as possible, so no Cannons sticking out of the windows (would look better, I know) or fancy spikes and shapes like in WC3. The "Big Bertha" Turret has nearly 100 vertexes (turret contains base, base top and cannon), my normal towers have 45 vertexes. Could be overhauled if the engine is good enough.

For the functions: well RTFM!

• The wood Tower is the weakest but cheap, shoots fast and can hit multiple targets including air units. Typical beginners tower.
• Blue tower does medium damage, multi shot and makes extra dmg on blue enemies (water or whatever)
• Red tower same but for red enemies (fire or so). blue and red only for ground targets (just an idea)
• black is the powerful combo tower, shoots quite fast and makes good damage on all enemies, ground and air. (expencive tower)
• Ballista is only against air targets, is slow, just hits a single enemy (upgradable?) but makes HUGE Damage. perfect for single Bosses
• Big Bertha is the same just against ground units, also single target only and quite slow. Maybe this cannon could be upgraded to make some splash dmg.

that was my first, quick idea about how the towers could work.

Hi,

Slightly off topic: does anyone know where Alex (SQDEF) is ?
He would be the perfect coder for this kind of game IMO.
I miss this guy from the GP2X days, and Ruckage too
I thought they would both jump in the Pandora train, seems I was wrong...
Anyway, thanks fusion_power for your work, I'll follow this project closely.

Bye, Magic Sam

SQDef works also great onto the Pandora with Ginge.
I liked this game, I also made some maps for it and gave some suggestions. But IMHO SQDef was a little bit unbalanced, at least for me. The small towers are not that great, you can update each one 4 or 5 times but this doesn't make much difference so you switch quickly to the big towers.
I want a TD game with a good balanced gameplay. not to much functions, maybe only 1 or 2 upgrades per Tower but these upgrades should be worth it. Expencive of course and only for later in the game.
I want a easy start, quick success for the beginners and with each Level/wave it gets harder in the best possible balanced way. Every Tower should have his advantages, no "never use" tower in the game. This is how I imagine a good TD game.

 

[foxblock]

For the functions: well RTFM!

That is not what I was trying to say. Of course you can assign different functions and behaviour to these towers, but the design hardly gets this across as they all more or less look alike.
You can read the manual (or in-game help overlay), but that is not how games should work, games should not require you to read a whole bunch of text, it's a game not a book after all. Graphics have to faciliate the gameplay and vice versa (same with sound, think of it as one big machine, each gear has to connect and work with the others, they should not be separated).
Sure that is more realistic than a big fire demon shooting balls of lava, but the latter makes its function immediately clear just on the first glance. (If you want to keep a somewhat realistic look, steampunk or future elements intermixed are always a good idea I guess).

 

[mcobit]

I can't really code... I just can make some adjustments for the ports I've done.
I would love to learn, and read some tutorials on 2d SDL stuff, but I just don't have the time to learn more. Reallifejob gets in the way

 

[fusion_power]

For the functions: well RTFM!

That is not what I was trying to say. Of course you can assign different functions and behaviour to these towers, but the design hardly gets this across as they all more or less look alike.
You can read the manual (or in-game help overlay), but that is not how games should work, games should not require you to read a whole bunch of text, it's a game not a book after all. Graphics have to faciliate the gameplay and vice versa (same with sound, think of it as one big machine, each gear has to connect and work with the others, they should not be separated).
Sure that is more realistic than a big fire demon shooting balls of lava, but the latter makes its function immediately clear just on the first glance. (If you want to keep a somewhat realistic look, steampunk or future elements intermixed are always a good idea I guess).

When you play SQDef, the little suqares that indicates the turrets also look the same, only the color is different. You set the Towers onto the playground and the menu shows what the tower does, including damage and so on. The tower itself shows what he does by firing different looking ammo, so my Towers are planed to do. 30 seconds learning curve, even without Manual.
The Wood Tower just shoots arrows, the Ballista shoots larger bolts, Cannon shoots cannonballs of course and the red/blue towers shoot something red and blue. This is more different than it actualy needs. The Combo tower shoots both, large bolts and cannonballs, so a combination of the 2 big turrets. within 5 Minutes or less you know what to do, I'm sure. IMHO my Towers are looking very different, except blue/red which is on purpose. I also made sure, even if you see top-down, you can separate the towers within a second:



I want to keep it simple and clean so you can focus onto your strategy.

I can't really code... I just can make some adjustments for the ports I've done.
I would love to learn, and read some tutorials on 2d SDL stuff, but I just don't have the time to learn more. Reallifejob gets in the way

That's even more I could do. ^^ By the way, I still waiting for a non crashing "Lincity-NG" PND.

 

[Gruntfuggly]

It would be quite cool if you combined the simplicity of SqDef's 2D interface for construction with the fusion_power's 3D models and view for the 'action' phase... with the camera swinging around and highlighting the areas of interest...

 

[foxblock]

When you play SQDef, the little suqares that indicates the turrets also look the same, only the color is different. You set the Towers onto the playground and the menu shows what the tower does, including damage and so on. The tower itself shows what he does by firing different looking ammo, so my Towers are planed to do. 30 seconds learning curve, even without Manual.
The Wood Tower just shoots arrows, the Ballista shoots larger bolts, Cannon shoots cannonballs of course and the red/blue towers shoot something red and blue. This is more different than it actualy needs. The Combo tower shoots both, large bolts and cannonballs, so a combination of the 2 big turrets. within 5 Minutes or less you know what to do, I'm sure. IMHO my Towers are looking very different, except blue/red which is on purpose. I also made sure, even if you see top-down, you can separate the towers within a second:

[image]

I want to keep it simple and clean so you can focus onto your strategy.

So what? Because another game does it that way it does not necessarily mean that it's the right way.
Sure you can read the menu and I also agree that after some games you will get it down, especially if there is only a low number of different towers.
Different effects and types of ammunition are not enough to distinguish the towers, in the heat of the battle you might not see where it is coming from and it's much easer and faster to "get" the function of a tower by its base geometry and colour.

You are right, you can distinguish the towers from the top view and also from a side view, but that does not imply that you actually get what their respective function is, which is the point I am aiming at. You may see a difference, but a difference in what? (attack power, range, elemental effect,...?).

I can only repeat, it's not enough to make them look differently, also make them look according to their function, in my opinion.
Here is an idea: Make the blue tower a bit frosty (icicles hanging from the ceiling, snow on the roof) to clearly show that it shoots slowing arrows (if that is the intended function, I am only guessing). Add some burning effect to the red tower to show that it shoots burning arrow.
If you have a long range tower (think sniper) give it some long-range ballistic look (or add some rifiles sticking out from the side, but imo that is not visible enough). If you have a fast-firing tower let it resemble a mini-gun, etc.
As I said before, the ballista and canon tower you designed are very good examples for this, they immediately show what the range of the tower, attack damage and type of damage might be without the need of ANY prior knowledge or text one has to read.

Oh and if eventually all towers just shoot differently powered arrows or cannonballs, I will be slightly disappointed, because that is just not enough tactical depth for me. (and adding a few elemental effects to the towers helps a lot in that regard, even if it is slightly unrealistic).

 

[fusion_power]

At first, the game must stand. Graphics are not the most important thing. If all the game mechanics are working and especialy balanced, we can think about how the Towers could look and design them after the choosen function. I just made some examples, as simple as possible so no icicles or anything. I know the Pandora has still Problems to get out the performance it is hidden in, so maybe we even can't use anything with mor than a couple of polygons.
Whatever, even if we first just use placeholders, it makes no sense to go into graphics detail until we have a working game. I've leaned from the past, that endless discussions about graphical details end in nothing. So at first I'm more than happy with my basic towers, they are different enough for a start and more than enough as placeholders for the game.
I don't change anything until at least something happend some day that leads into a usable game with all functions working, tested and balanced. After this it is more than enough time to think about the graphics. You can replace everything if you want, I designed the stuff onto a Blender grid, so each "tile" can beconnected like in an editor, only the grass ground is one big surface to save Polygons (first I had many small square grass tiles but this is not neccessary anymore imho). Graphical Level Editor would be also a nice feature by the way.

You also can Model some towers if you want, as more choice we have, as better it is at the end.

Oh and if eventually all towers just shoot differently powered arrows or cannonballs, I will be slightly disappointed, because that is just not enough tactical depth for me. (and adding a few elemental effects to the towers helps a lot in that regard, even if it is slightly unrealistic).

It is very important for me to keep it simple. Many TD Games do not use "elemental" stuff and they are fun as hell. I don't actualy like these over engineered TD games like Gemcraft. When I want to play a strategy game, I play a strategy game, not a TD game.