Pandora Pandora Tower Defense In 3D

[foxblock]

I was never talking about the graphics alone, but always in coordination and combination with gameplay.

Another reason for that is that you get the functionality of the towers done, definition of what makes a TD game (or any game for that matter) varies wildly, but here is an example set-up, which would give me the depth (which is something different than complexity) I like:
Ordinary arrow tower - medium range, medium damage, medium speed - good for starting, can be upgraded, should also be useful in later levels, maybe split the tech tree at the end to allow for either hitting multiple enemies in a line (pierce) or more fire rate
Cannon tower - low range, high damage, low speed - also a good starting point, depending on where you want to go, has splash damage (hits multiple enemies at once), also upgradeable (maybe add a "bouncing" effect making the canonball bounce on the ground for a few times)
Slowing tower - low/medium range, low damage, medium speed - excellent in combination with the canon tower, slows enemies down to create groups and helps the aim of slower towers, later upgrades might add splash
Fire tower - medium range, high damage, medium speed - sets enemies on fire (conflicts with slowing tower), making them take damage over time, but also run faster (upgrades to have slight splash)
"Sniper" tower - long range, high damage, low speed - good against single key-value targets or single enemies who got through your defences, also good in combination with the slowing tower (later upgrades might add a "bouncing" or piercing shot)
Rapid Fire tower - low range, low damage, high speed - deals a lot of damage very quickly, but has limited range, good for corners of a maze, also a good anti-air tower (upgrades to have a slight slowing effect)

That would make a total of 6 towers, not too complex if you ask me (I don't know Gemcraft, so I can't compare it to that). But the important part is that every tower has a specific and different function and every tower is useful at any time of the game (although the latter 4 towers probably would be more expensive so not available at the start of the game). And last but not least you can use all of the towers or just a sub-set depending on what strategy you roll (ice + canon to get enemies in a group and take out all at once, ice + sniper to kill one by one while the cripple through the maze, fire + rapid fire/arrow tower, just a shit load of arrow towers as they are fairly cheap etc.), which gives a nice depth and allows for personal or level dependant strategies instead of allowing only that one winning combination (or always needing all towers).
I don't think there needs to be more elements than ice or fire, or maybe not even those two (you could probably get the same functionality with another symbol), but they add some nice strategic choices.

The reason why I talked about the graphics part so much is that people tend to focus on the graphics alone and forget about the gameplay or also think about the gameplay, but not in combination with the graphics, so the end result does not work that "smoothly".
I wasn't suggesting your towers were bad, I like them and I certainly could not create better ones, but graphics is only one part and I am glad you think so, too, but when creating graphics also keep gameplay in mind.


Oh btw, I like the discussion that is going on here, but everything will be void if nobody goes ahead and actually programs this game, which I won't

 

[fusion_power]

I was never talking about the graphics alone, but always in coordination and combination with gameplay.

Another reason for that is that you get the functionality of the towers done, definition of what makes a TD game (or any game for that matter) varies wildly, but here is an example set-up, which would give me the depth (which is something different than complexity) I like:
Ordinary arrow tower - medium range, medium damage, medium speed - good for starting, can be upgraded, should also be useful in later levels, maybe split the tech tree at the end to allow for either hitting multiple enemies in a line (pierce) or more fire rate
Cannon tower - low range, high damage, low speed - also a good starting point, depending on where you want to go, has splash damage (hits multiple enemies at once), also upgradeable (maybe add a "bouncing" effect making the canonball bounce on the ground for a few times)
Slowing tower - low/medium range, low damage, medium speed - excellent in combination with the canon tower, slows enemies down to create groups and helps the aim of slower towers, later upgrades might add splash
Fire tower - medium range, high damage, medium speed - sets enemies on fire (conflicts with slowing tower), making them take damage over time, but also run faster (upgrades to have slight splash)
"Sniper" tower - long range, high damage, low speed - good against single key-value targets or single enemies who got through your defences, also good in combination with the slowing tower (later upgrades might add a "bouncing" or piercing shot)
Rapid Fire tower - low range, low damage, high speed - deals a lot of damage very quickly, but has limited range, good for corners of a maze, also a good anti-air tower (upgrades to have a slight slowing effect)

That would make a total of 6 towers, not too complex if you ask me (I don't know Gemcraft, so I can't compare it to that). But the important part is that every tower has a specific and different function and every tower is useful at any time of the game (although the latter 4 towers probably would be more expensive so not available at the start of the game). And last but not least you can use all of the towers or just a sub-set depending on what strategy you roll (ice + canon to get enemies in a group and take out all at once, ice + sniper to kill one by one while the cripple through the maze, fire + rapid fire/arrow tower, just a shit load of arrow towers as they are fairly cheap etc.), which gives a nice depth and allows for personal or level dependant strategies instead of allowing only that one winning combination (or always needing all towers).
I don't think there needs to be more elements than ice or fire, or maybe not even those two (you could probably get the same functionality with another symbol), but they add some nice strategic choices.

The reason why I talked about the graphics part so much is that people tend to focus on the graphics alone and forget about the gameplay or also think about the gameplay, but not in combination with the graphics, so the end result does not work that "smoothly".
I wasn't suggesting your towers were bad, I like them and I certainly could not create better ones, but graphics is only one part and I am glad you think so, too, but when creating graphics also keep gameplay in mind.


Oh btw, I like the discussion that is going on here, but everything will be void if nobody goes ahead and actually programs this game, which I won't

Build it and they will come! Or even better:

I said you wanna be startin' somethin'
You got to be startin' somethin'

Well at least we can discuss what a TD Game for the Pandora could be, if this does inspire someone to actualy make it, my mission is done. ^^ I'm not registered on the other english board so maybe you could make some noise there?
For the towers, it somehow has to fit on the screen, without to much scrolling, so as more towers there are, as bigger the Maps have to be and as more far away the camera has to be. Another advantage of 3D graphics, the maps can have different sizes and with zooming it still should fit. I actualy want do make another Tower, the Quad Fortress, same name like in the SQDef game, it uses a ground space of 2x2 tiles instead of one tile, not sure what this thin will do but I'm in the moot to model it just for fun.
Oh, for the dmg/range/speed... of the towers, a nice Excel sheet would be great, much more overview than "wall of text". I once made a table onto paper but it was only very basic, ignoring stuff like range etc.

I also have other Ideas for Pandora games, how about a real good 3D Pinball game, theme is of course greek mythology "Pandoras Box"...

P.S.: Gemcraft: http://armorgames.com/play/1716/gemcraft

 

[foxblock]

P.S.: Gemcraft: http://armorgames.co...y/1716/gemcraft

Aaah, so I actually DID play it back in the day.
It is kind of fun, but not really, it has many of the problems I described.
Towers are too similar to each other, they have special properties, but not very prominent ones. There is too much numbers involved.
And a good example to my point: While they look differently, you actually can't tell from the colour what function a specific gem has (okay blue - slow and red - splash are obvious, but what about cyan, green - poison? guess again, purple, etc.).
To top it off, upgrades are plain number upgrades and there are multiple spells, etc.
Overall way more complex and complicated than it needs to be. Also I don't think the base idea, while innovative and unique, is a good one to start with.

Anyway...

 

[foxblock]

Cross-posted this on the official boards (maybe you should get an account there fusion_power )
http://boards.openpa...or-the-pandora/

 

[fusion_power]

P.S.: Gemcraft: http://armorgames.co...y/1716/gemcraft

Aaah, so I actually DID play it back in the day.
It is kind of fun, but not really, it has many of the problems I described.
Towers are too similar to each other, they have special properties, but not very prominent ones. There is too much numbers involved.
And a good example to my point: While they look differently, you actually can't tell from the colour what function a specific gem has (okay blue - slow and red - splash are obvious, but what about cyan, green - poison? guess again, purple, etc.).
To top it off, upgrades are plain number upgrades and there are multiple spells, etc.
Overall way more complex and complicated than it needs to be. Also I don't think the base idea, while innovative and unique, is a good one to start with.

Anyway...

Exactly, gemcraft is a nice idea but it lacks of overview. At least it takes a while to learn, even the Levels are starting very easy. And in this state it just makes not much difference what gem you use. I only did wild guesses and added/combined every gem pure random - and it worked. I'm sure later in the game you have to be more careful but my Idea is to really start simple and clear.
So I guess it is not a bad Idea just to have one or 2 Towers at the beginning. Over the time, there will be more options available and the game "grows".

 

[foxblock]

Exactly, gemcraft is a nice idea but it lacks of overview. At least it takes a while to learn, even the Levels are starting very easy. And in this state it just makes not much difference what gem you use. I only did wild guesses and added/combined every gem pure random - and it worked. I'm sure later in the game you have to be more careful but my Idea is to really start simple and clear.
So I guess it is not a bad Idea just to have one or 2 Towers at the beginning. Over the time, there will be more options available and the game "grows".

Yep, you are right, forgot to mention that, too

 

[fusion_power]

And here is my Idea of how a Quad Fortress could look like:



If there is enough free space (and money), this Fortress can be built. It uses 2x2 space onto the grid and has room for up to 4 turrets on Top. I imagine that the Fortress is without turrets when built but already can shoot out of the windows (not sure what it could shoot). The Fortress can be upgraded with just placing a Cannon or Ballista Tower over the available spaces on top in any combination. So you have actualy more firepower onto one tile because of the additional shooting from the fortress itself, maybe the Fortress also could give a boost in damage/range etc. to the turrets, more than a single turret would have. So a Quad Fortress is supposed to be more effective than 4 single turrets at the same place.
This Building is of course only later in the game available.

 

[foxblock]

I could imagine towers getting a range boost because they are located higher on the fortress.

 

[fusion_power]

I could imagine towers getting a range boost because they are located higher on the fortress.

Yes, something like this.
There are enough Towers at the moment imho, now someone has to make some mobs. And no, I'm not the one. ^^

 

[Tobs]

Those are some pretty good looking towers!
A while ago, I was coding a 3D tower defence game but stopped because of my inability to art. I've just left my job to continue education so I've got a bunch of spare time over the summer. I'm interested in working with some of you fine folks on this! Reply or shoot me a PM if you're interested and we can get a design document or something on the way?

Edit: I should add that I don't have my Pandora yet (first batch/4th Oct... soon hopefully!). My code abstracts graphics calls though, so it shouldn't be difficult to plug it into GLES2.0. Also, reading the thread in more detail, we've got some cool ideas here!

 

[fusion_power]

Sounds good Tobs. I hope GLES2.0 does work well on the Pandora, even GLES 1 stuff seems pretty rare at the moment. I often hear of serious Driver Problems of the Pandora, I really hope this will not be an disadvantage in this case here.
Do you already have a Engine ready or in mind that could handle such a game? Tower Defense games can be pretty heavy in on screen activity, so I already made the models as low poly as possible. All Textures together are less than 1MB so at least from this side it shouldn't cause problems.
I also designed the towers and turrets onto a grid, so for example the quad fortress is made out of 4 single pieces where each one is aligned to one grid square with the optional turret in the center. this is the reason why there is no 5. turret in the middle, because this element would be in between the center of 4 squares and not in the center of one square.
And you want to do coding without having an actual Pandora? Not bad, I hope you can have your Device soon. Craig really should care more that coders will get their Pandoras earlier, even people like Ari64 was without Pandora all the time.
Like I mentioned before, we still would need a guy who made mobs for this game, I totaly suck when it comes to model "organic" stuff.

 

[Dunny]

I've skimmed this thread, and I'd just like to discuss what I would like to see in a "tower defence" kind of game... Feel free to ignore or rip it to shreds

The playfield would be 3-D - hills, trees, rivers with fordable sections, even (non-participating) buildings - all of which could be used as cover by the attacking force.

The towers used need to be all defensive - some might be re-supply towers which need to be placed strategically nearby your offensive towers, some might be "spotters" - the map, being in 3D would engender a line-of-sight attack method for your defensive attacks which allows attacking forces to make use of the aforementioned cover - and these spotters would be higher, more able to pinpoint the attackers for long-range ballistic weapons to fire blind upon. I'm sure there are many more can be thought up!

The attacks would still come in "waves" but would be scattered rather than following a specific path. Your base would be their ultimate goal of course, but they might start in random positions at the edges of the map, or as squads of attackers which break up as they get near... All sorts of AI could be employed.

And lastly, it might be nice to make this turn-based - specifically, you get one "turn" where you set up your defences and supply lines, and then hit "GO" and let the attackers loose. Experienced tower-inhabitants might get a slight edge if you re-deploy them in future battles.

D.

 

[Tobs]

I agree folk like Ari64 should have had some priority getting the Pandora, but I'm sure the OP team would've gotten some stick for prioritising. Me? I'm far less of a contributor than him, so I'm fine waiting!
I'm a little worried about porting to GLES, but I've written openGL code which only uses GLES2.0 functions, so provided the GLES2.0 basics are working, things should be fine... should be! I've got a home made 'engine', which is effectively a lightweight and efficient bat-belt of code tied up with SDL, so that should be okay porting. I've been looking around the tower defence game I wrote before; there's some poor choices I made and lessons I've learnt, so I think I'll start again. First though, I think we should write a design document! Once we know exactly what sort of gameplay and features we're going for, I'll conjure some technical design 'docs' and get coding. Shall I make a Google document and share it with you?
As for mobs; talent attracts talent! We can just have some really vicious looking spheres or teapots attacking the player for now! I'm sure we'll find someone down the line who can do them.

 

[fusion_power]

I've skimmed this thread, and I'd just like to discuss what I would like to see in a "tower defence" kind of game... Feel free to ignore or rip it to shreds

The playfield would be 3-D - hills, trees, rivers with fordable sections, even (non-participating) buildings - all of which could be used as cover by the attacking force.

The towers used need to be all defensive - some might be re-supply towers which need to be placed strategically nearby your offensive towers, some might be "spotters" - the map, being in 3D would engender a line-of-sight attack method for your defensive attacks which allows attacking forces to make use of the aforementioned cover - and these spotters would be higher, more able to pinpoint the attackers for long-range ballistic weapons to fire blind upon. I'm sure there are many more can be thought up!

The attacks would still come in "waves" but would be scattered rather than following a specific path. Your base would be their ultimate goal of course, but they might start in random positions at the edges of the map, or as squads of attackers which break up as they get near... All sorts of AI could be employed.

And lastly, it might be nice to make this turn-based - specifically, you get one "turn" where you set up your defences and supply lines, and then hit "GO" and let the attackers loose. Experienced tower-inhabitants might get a slight edge if you re-deploy them in future battles.

D.

Sounds interesting but also sounds somehow complicated. ^^" All this squeezing into one playfield and still have spacwe for towers and enemies and stuff without loosing the overview is quite a hard task i guess.

I agree folk like Ari64 should have had some priority getting the Pandora, but I'm sure the OP team would've gotten some stick for prioritising. Me? I'm far less of a contributor than him, so I'm fine waiting!
I'm a little worried about porting to GLES, but I've written openGL code which only uses GLES2.0 functions, so provided the GLES2.0 basics are working, things should be fine... should be! I've got a home made 'engine', which is effectively a lightweight and efficient bat-belt of code tied up with SDL, so that should be okay porting. I've been looking around the tower defence game I wrote before; there's some poor choices I made and lessons I've learnt, so I think I'll start again. First though, I think we should write a design document! Once we know exactly what sort of gameplay and features we're going for, I'll conjure some technical design 'docs' and get coding. Shall I make a Google document and share it with you?
As for mobs; talent attracts talent! We can just have some really vicious looking spheres or teapots attacking the player for now! I'm sure we'll find someone down the line who can do them.

Well, I don't know if I could help you with more than just some Ideas and maybe some 3D Objects. I never did a game, I only gave some Ideas and suggestions here and there. My native language isn't english so it's a miracle that you even understand what I'm writing here. I would leave this project to more talented people than me, I'm pleased to give suggestions and Ideas but the "hard stuff" should be done by people that know what they are doing, so feel free to find a wild bunch of people and code the best Tower Defense Game we've seen yet.

Yes, for the beginning, some placeholders could do the job of the enemies. If you familar with blender, I could give you my Blend File containing all the towers and textures so you can play with the models, convert them and look what you can do with it.

 

[Dunny]

Sounds interesting but also sounds somehow complicated. ^^" All this squeezing into one playfield and still have spacwe for towers and enemies and stuff without loosing the overview is quite a hard task i guess.

I dunno, I was envisaging a scrolling 3D playfield in the same vein as the recently released Paper Wars game

As there would be basically an infinite amount of time available to the user to get their defences set up, scrolling around and placing towers would likely be quite simple.

D.

 

[foxblock]

Well, I don't know if I could help you with more than just some Ideas and maybe some 3D Objects. I never did a game, I only gave some Ideas and suggestions here and there. My native language isn't english so it's a miracle that you even understand what I'm writing here. I would leave this project to more talented people than me, I'm pleased to give suggestions and Ideas but the "hard stuff" should be done by people that know what they are doing, so feel free to find a wild bunch of people and code the best Tower Defense Game we've seen yet.

Yes, for the beginning, some placeholders could do the job of the enemies. If you familar with blender, I could give you my Blend File containing all the towers and textures so you can play with the models, convert them and look what you can do with it.

No, in my opinion you should actually go ahead and properly commit yourself to this game, it makes you more involved, more committed to actually produce anything and more emotional attached to the product than "just" giving suggestions, which will end in a maybe half-baked effort.
You made some nice models and if you think you cannot model organic creatures then it might be time to learn doing so or just go with what you have for now as ugly graphics are still better than no graphics.

Please, consider starting this project properly and taking over (at least part) of the graphics side, I would love to see this happen and I am glad Tobs stood up for the code side, so don't let any effort go to waste.
(I didn't think I could make sprites and then I made the art for Schizophrenia which did not turn out too bad in that regard I think, it's just a matter of actually doing it and trying to improve - and if you never started a project before, why not start with that now if you are having fun doing it? I see you always have a lot of ideas and are quite a skilled artist, but you never made a game yourself? Don't let that talent go to waste)

 

[Tobs]

Well, I don't know if I could help you with more than just some Ideas and maybe some 3D Objects. I never did a game, I only gave some Ideas and suggestions here and there. My native language isn't english so it's a miracle that you even understand what I'm writing here. I would leave this project to more talented people than me, I'm pleased to give suggestions and Ideas but the "hard stuff" should be done by people that know what they are doing, so feel free to find a wild bunch of people and code the best Tower Defense Game we've seen yet.

Yes, for the beginning, some placeholders could do the job of the enemies. If you familar with blender, I could give you my Blend File containing all the towers and textures so you can play with the models, convert them and look what you can do with it.

First time for everything! Ideas and 3D objects would be really good though; a tower defence game probably isn't going to be big enough to include really "hard stuff" =D. Just saw FoxBlock’s reply whilst writing this and that’s exactly how I feel: “Don't let that talent go to waste”! Should we get some IRC chat going?
I've been thinking about FoxBlock's tower suggestions, here are my thoughts: I like TD games where I only end up placing a few (<10 for example) towers throughout each level. This way, each tower placement has to be well thought out depending on the level and the enemy types at hand. Each tower also feels like it has a purpose, instead of say desktop tower defence where you have a thousand pea shooters. 6 is a decent number of towers, but I also like where I can upgrade existing towers into specialisations. It means I can put a weak tower in a strategic place at the start of the game, then upgrade it into something more apt later on, when the big enemies come out and I have the cash. Saying that, here’s my version of FoxBlock’s list:

Archery tower (Damage to single units)- medium range, medium damage, medium speed - good for starting, can be upgraded to increase all stats, or upgraded to a ranger tower or rapid fire tower. Ranger tower is long range, high damage, low speed, and rapid fire tower neglects damage and range for speed.

Cannon tower (AoE damage to multiple units) - low range, high damage, low speed - can be upgraded to increase all stats, fire flack balls which explode on impact: big AoE effect that’s very efficient against fliers, but low range (delicate balls!) or lead balls, which hit the target and keep rolling, causing a little damage and slowing the enemy as it rolls in a line.

White Mage tower (Slowing units) - low/medium range, low damage, medium speed - slows enemies. Instead of upgrading this, maybe multiple towers could be placed next to each other for different effects? Say put one each side of the path and they create a barrier which ‘collects’ multiple mobs, making them an easy shot for the cannon. Or three together makes a triangle of slow and doom?

Maybe also including the:
Black Mage tower (misc. effects) - medium range, high damage, medium speed - sets enemies on fire (conflicts with slowing tower), making them take damage over time, but also run faster (upgrades to have slight splash)
Trial this one though; it’s not dissimilar to the rapid archery tower, maybe it should be an upgrade to another tower? Or various interesting effects?

I think I’ve kept the types of tower very distinct, with really clear roles. I’d love to see what you guys could come up with as different versions of the black mage tower? I’m sure there’s lots of interesting effects it could produce!

What can we have the player do during a turn? TD games tend to be about setting things up and not doing much while watching waves of mobs get mowed down. They 'fixed' this in Plants vs Zombies by making you click on sunlight, but that seems so mundane! I like the idea of changing tactics; giving towers priorities or general strategies. Player could also have spells and abilities he could call upon, like a lightning strike or sending a dragon to kill a few mobs. Might keep the player thinking and moving fast?

Enough of my wall of text! Let me know what you think!
Also the other topic has some nice posts from some enthusiastic people =]

 

[DaMummy]

im gonna side with dunny here and say that mobs should only move in on button click by player, this mostly due to more difficult control scheme with nubs/stylus of pandora, unless all action is on one screen and theres no need for scroll throughout the map, in that case, mobs can move in on their own based on a time, say few seconds after last wave is killed off or reached your home tower

 

[foxblock]

Sounding very good, I like it.
Integrating the rapid fire and sniper tower into the arrow/ballista tower is a very good move, I wrote that post quite fast and never really considered that (with the towers being very similar it was actually quite counter-productive to my point).

I like the idea of the Black Mage tower having multiple upgrades and spells which you can choose depending on your strategy.

I would suggest one little change to the concept, although I am not entirely sure how good that would work out:
In many tower defense games you have one "aura" tower, which improves the speed/range/damage of all your towers in a certain range.
In a way I like this concept, because you can use it to boost "weaker" towers and also to enforce your strategy (make fast towers even faster, or make canon tower do even more damage).
The point obviously should be that it only allows for one upgrade (so auras don't stack), meaning you can't have a speed improving tower and a range improving tower.
Also introducing this element makes the player choose between building an additional tower or maybe sacrificing one or two to build a tower which potentially improves all of his towers.
Maybe it should not even be limited in range....

The drawback of this concept obviously is that it is kinda complicated as it contradicts to the rest.
Also depending on implementation the aura tower might make more or less sense (in many TD games it was essential at some point, but those usually also had stacking auras).

I would propose using the concept of the "White mage" tower as an aura tower and moving the "ice" upgrade over to the black mage tower.
The additional advantage of this would be that you have the ice/fire option in one tower and it becomes more clear that those are different strategies which would work against each other.

I don't especially like the "max 10 towers" rule. I agree that tower defence games in which you have/can build an army of 100 basic arrow towers to win are not that fun to play in general.
I also like the micro-management idea in which you can manage each tower on your own and kinda get attached to them as they are one of a kind and not one of many.
But overall I think 10 is too low, that would only allow for a maximum of 2-3 per type, I think doubling that number would give the player more flexibility to some extend (though I guess the exact number can only be determined through playtesting).

The main problem of lulls during waves in which you have nothing to do is indeed critical.
I kinda like how Plants vs Zombies solved that in the end it's not only clicking on sun (which is indeed cumbersome), but also constantly re-building your defences as they get eaten and using the one-hit towers.
Have a look at the new Double Fine game, Trenched, I mentioned. It may not seem like a traditional TD game, because they made many changes to the format, but seemingly to the better as directly controlling your towers makes you feel like your in the battle, makes you attached to your tower and also fights lulls as you actively have to aim and shoot (so the action actually is moved to the wave part not in-between).
I am not saying this game should got all that way, I think that's not what many people want, but maybe one can take some ideas of that and implement them.
I am thinking along the lines of spells which can be used at any time (freeze all attackers in place, call a meteor to kill a bunch of guys, maybe call a golem which you can control for a limited time and punch enemies with, etc.)
Also maybe some towers not only get passive spells, but also active ones (so that's combinable with the idea above). So you can select the Black Mage tower and summon an extra powerful fireball at a specific point every X minutes.
Or activate a "rapid fire mode" on the arrow tower for a limited time.
This obviously only works with a limited number of towers (10 does not sound so bad after all...) or maybe not all towers get those active abilities (A special "Hero" tower maybe, which ONLY has active abilities...)

EDIT: On the time thing: I am in favour of making the waves attack after a specific amount of time since the last guy of the last wave has been killed. It creates some kind of tension, which only underlines the gameplay experience of some "last defence". Obviously that time limit should be fairly generous, so you don't have to have mad navigation skills or place towers in a frenzy or panic. Maybe one could send the waves in "batches", so every 5 waves get summoned after a time limit (after each preceding wave), but after that you have as much time as you want until you summon the next batch of 5 waves.

Oh well, I am starting to ramble, I hope you are still following me

I really like that this project is picked up, I hope you don't mind I am rambling about my ideas for so long and quite extensively...

 

[Blue Protoman]

I volunteer for beta testing in the future. Wermy, creator of Super Geometry Dust, can vouch for the level of input that I give.