Pandora Standard Distro: Armstrong Or *ubuntu?

[gruso]

Good heavens what a cluster F* in here.

For those of you taking your steamy self-righteous dumps on Ubuntu, you're all over-reacting.

. . .

The Pandora team has done nothing but a freaking awesome job on everything thus far. I'm going to TRUST THEM COMPLETELY with the default build.
100% agreed (with your entire post - I just left a couple of pertinent points in for emphasis).

It's like all the distro queens (consider that coined) are forgetting that it's an open system. If you don't like it, don't use it! They're going with *ubuntu for a good reason, and if you care about the success of Pandora, you should be able to see that.

A finished product is just around the corner. This should be a happy time, not a bitchy one.

 

[hch]

Granted it lacks some rich guy and a foaming fan base but why not angstrom? It's very nice.

why? maybe because it has like 300 packages compared to 20.000 or so deb packages. there are people out there that want to do a bit more with the andora1: than running mame or uae.

 

[mali]

The funny thing, for me as an outsider, about this discussion is, that it reminds me of linux vs. windows discussions B)

 

[phrosty]

So long as both are available to install, I don't care which it comes with

 

[Chip]

The funny thing, for me as an outsider, about this discussion is, that it reminds me of linux vs. windows discussions B)
I never got it either. Every couple months somebody starts a thread asking "What is the best Linux distro?" and it ends up pretty much like this thread. You get as many different answers as there are responders, and everybody is adamant that their distro is best.

When you get right down to it, isn't "distro" just another way of saying "pre-installed stuff"? It's just a bunch of individual programs that somebody lashed together and gave a name. It's not lika any of them are one immutable entity. You could build Ubuntu (or Debian, or Red Hat, or whatever) from it's component pieces if you wanted to. Nobody makes a big deal about what does or doesn't come pre-installed on Mac or Windows PCs (unless it's crapware). Everybody just gets their computer and goes about adding whatever they want.

The Pandora may be Ubuntu based, but you're not getting a full Ubuntu distro. Therefore you're not getting Ubuntu at all, just some of the pieces of it. Whether you love or hate Ubuntu makes no difference, because unless somebody told you "This was based on Ubuntu", you'd never know the difference. The GUI - the part you actually see - is still GMenu. It's stripped down and simplified to be fast and efficient, and it looks nothing like any Linux distro with which you may be familiar.

 

[cb88]

The reason you would want to start with say angstrom is... it is ALREADY optimised and designed for the hardware we have (will have...)

while ubuntu is targeted at relatively recent x86 based PCs with loads of ram

the drawback is you get programs with more dependencies compiled in and higher ram usage because of that... of course this also gets you marginally better functionality assuming you have enough ram to run it

you will please notice that when (I believe it was fedora developers ... they also use upstart init like ubuntu) developers want to boot fast they stick with sysvinit it is rock solid and can can be optimised to death... they got down to 5 seconds boot time on x86 to a full desktop finished loading (except for the bringing up of the network)

http://lwn.net/Articles/299483/

so if upstart is ripped out... that would be good

now about the packages they aren't very size optimal even a base ubuntu system is pretty huge

also 60 or so mb ram free is really sad.... on debian i had 40mb USED on a debian desktop.... ubuntu is bloated and it is a fact IMO they should load a bloated distro that will run half decently on the HW just cause it gives theme some immediate PR gratification... you have to think in the long term (unlike the american banks obviously) is firefox3 on ubuntu gonna smoke safari on the iPhone (well it might if it had enough ram to run in...get my point )? or can i open just as many apps on the pandora as on my desktop? probably given an optimized system that was DESIGNED to run on it not hacked down to a somewhat runnable level

and one more thing... if you apt get anything... you still get full unoptimally built ubuntu bloat

so regardless of all that ^^^^ we haven't seen a side by side comparison of an optimised anstrom and ubuntu ... but even still I think it would be very likely anstrom would win on the efficiency side if not on the number of packages

@Chip no what you are refering to is called a "derivative" like ubuntu or sidux is to debian or slax or bluewhite64 is to slackware etc... and yes you run say apt get pidgin or aptget whatever you are gonna get ubuntu not an optimised derivative (unless they set up a repo with optimised apps ... in that case what was the point of ubuntu again?)

 

[sebt3]

(Besides, the only OS you need _is_ Emacs.)

Cool, RMS finally got hardware drivers in Emacs, what a long shoot

(sorry, for this realy off topic post, but I couldnt resist )

 

[noisome]

What I don't understand is what Valhalla wrote, no one has answered.

QUOTE
The FAQ says that the standard pandora distro will be based on armstrong + openembedded, and most of the forum seem to assume it will be so

However there are a couple posts deep in other topics, e.g. http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showt...mp;#entry660280 that imply that the standard distro has been changed to an ubuntu based one

Has it been a late change? anybody from the devs care to give a definite answer and update the faq?


Who in here is a F*ing dev? Basically, I recommend all parts of this thread be removed and the question be answered by who it was intended for. Chip has a heads up but not anyone (or not too many actually) else. God, what a bunch of PSP-like fanboys. Who gives a crap what we all THINK when a REAL question is raised. FACTS are wanted not distro-fanboyism. This was, and still is being, talked about in another thread, stop migrating.

I care what a dev or anyone with a heads up has to say. An OFFICIAL word on what is being done would be appreciated.

Noisome

EDIT:
QUOTE
The Pandora may be Ubuntu based, but you're not getting a full Ubuntu distro. Therefore you're not getting Ubuntu at all, just some of the pieces of it. Whether you love or hate Ubuntu makes no difference, because unless somebody told you "This was based on Ubuntu", you'd never know the difference. The GUI - the part you actually see - is still GMenu. It's stripped down and simplified to be fast and efficient, and it looks nothing like any Linux distro with which you may be familiar.


That basically answers the question. Peace out.

 

[tazg]

Good heavens what a cluster F* in here.

For those of you taking your steamy self-righteous dumps on Ubuntu, you're all over-reacting.

If you want to complain about bloat etc then stop being sissies and do your own damn LFS build. In fact till you've done one you'll still feel that one Linux Distro is "better" than another and not realize some simple facts.

Linux distros are a collection of tools running on a Linux Kernel..... that's it. Period... end of story.

If you dig down to the bare bones you realize they're all the same, you can do the same things on any of them.

First, yours is the most hostile post in this whole thread, so it's pretty hypocritical.

Second, you are completely missing the point. Yes, Linux distros are just a bunch of programs around the kernel, but that is almost as silly as saying it doesn't matter what software is used period because it's all on the same hardware after all. That doesn't make any sense. You make it sound like it takes 5 minutes to create a distro because they're all the same. The point is they already have a very efficient system set up, and using something else, especially something like ubuntu, as a new starting point is just a ridiculously counter-productive move. Maybe that seems like an over-reaction to someone who thinks of an OS as just a gui sitting on a kernel, but it`s not.

 

[mali]

What I don't understand is what Valhalla wrote, no one has answered.

QUOTE
The FAQ says that the standard pandora distro will be based on armstrong + openembedded, and most of the forum seem to assume it will be so

However there are a couple posts deep in other topics, e.g. http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showt...mp;#entry660280 that imply that the standard distro has been changed to an ubuntu based one

Has it been a late change? anybody from the devs care to give a definite answer and update the faq?


Who in here is a F*ing dev? Basically, I recommend all parts of this thread be removed and the question be answered by who it was intended for. Chip has a heads up but not anyone (or not too many actually) else. God, what a bunch of PSP-like fanboys. Who gives a crap what we all THINK when a REAL question is raised. FACTS are wanted not distro-fanboyism. This was, and still is being, talked about in another thread, stop migrating.

I care what a dev or anyone with a heads up has to say. An OFFICIAL word on what is being done would be appreciated.

Noisome

EDIT:
QUOTE
The Pandora may be Ubuntu based, but you're not getting a full Ubuntu distro. Therefore you're not getting Ubuntu at all, just some of the pieces of it. Whether you love or hate Ubuntu makes no difference, because unless somebody told you "This was based on Ubuntu", you'd never know the difference. The GUI - the part you actually see - is still GMenu. It's stripped down and simplified to be fast and efficient, and it looks nothing like any Linux distro with which you may be familiar.


That basically answers the question. Peace out.


Reread the thread and you will find the answer
Evil Dragon himself answered this question on the german forum, and somebody posted a translation in this thread.

Answer: Angström on the NAND
ubuntu on SD if you like to use it

 

[AireTamStorm]

I never got it either. Every couple months somebody starts a thread asking "What is the best Linux distro?" and it ends up pretty much like this thread. You get as many different answers as there are responders, and everybody is adamant that their distro is best.
Every distro has its own purpose, and all the people who claim it is the best do so because it best fulfills their own personal needs. The question should be "what is the best distro for me", but often even that gets interpreted as "What is the best distro".

I answered it as the former Here.

 

[noisome]

Reread the thread and you will find the answer
Evil Dragon himself answered this question on the german forum, and somebody posted a translation in this thread.

Answer: Angström on the NAND
ubuntu on SD if you like to use it



Like I said, on a German forum and also on here it should be posted, and then on the Wiki, then delete all other crap and lock it. Anyway, good luck and good bye. It has been answered. Nothing else is necessary.

Noisome

 

[Chip]

Who in here is a F*ing dev? Basically, I recommend all parts of this thread be removed and the question be answered by who it was intended for. Chip has a heads up but not anyone (or not too many actually) else.

We know for a fact that Craig, ED, Notaz, MWeston, Zodttd, DJWillis and Firefox have Pandora boards, since all of them have posted videos at some point. Actually, I don't think DJW has posted a video, but he has been publicly outed. Svartalf had a board briefly. Squidge has an OMAP3 dev board, which is functionally very similar to the Pandora. There are others as well, but I'm not going to rat out anybody who doesn't feel like coming forward. There are also a few devs without hardware who are working on pre-release stuff.

I'm not a programmer, but I do read every post on these boards, including the private dev forum. I'm not really much more "in the loop" than anybody else here, I just pay attention, sort the signal from the noise, and retain data

 

[cb88]

"and retain data"

...yeah like a steel vise LOL

 

[noisome]

I guess the blog just answered all questions and showed a demonstration.

Nice

Noisome

 

[TaG]

Might be worth checking he blog about now:

First GMenu Pandora Preview

 

[Svartalf]

"and retain data"

...yeah like a steel vise LOL

No, more like a bear trap for all sorts of stuff- much like my head ends up being...

 

[Tobriand]

I guess the blog just answered all questions and showed a demonstration.

Nice

Noisome

And given that it does, I'm closing this thread before the arguments get any louder.

For anyone who hasn't read the latest blog update, it might be a good idea to look at it.