Pandora Standard Distro: Armstrong Or *ubuntu?

[Zoxc]

Well I read 10MB free after Ubuntu is loaded...

Ubuntu will suck, expecially if want speed or you don't want use a stylus.

There is also 30MB/s SD cards available that clould be used for swap

 

[cosam]

I'm really not worried which distribution they base the default OS on. It's not like they're just going to take Angstrom, Ubuntu or <insert distribution of choice here>, stick it as-is on the flash and say "there you go, guys". There'll be no end of stuff that can be stripped out or otherwise optimised and, when you're done doing that, the difference between using various distributions as starting points becomes minimal. I have faith in the guys working on it and trust they'll come up with a suitable OS. If, for some unfathomable reason, they end up shipping bloatware, you can rest assured the community will be providing plenty of alternatives.

 

[dentrado]

We also know that when gnome was loaded, there is 69MB free. Assuming that the move to xfce has a nice drop ( some old figures below show a difference of 30MB ). Some numbers to play with




Where have you seen gnome on pandora? It was xfce in the video.

I don't know if I think ubuntu is a good or bad idea, apt is a plus, but speed may be a downside, but I guess speed at least would be better than debian armel because programs is going to be compiled for newer ARM processors (is this correct?). And to port from debian armel to ubuntu should be easier than to ångström, right?

But on the other hand, beagleboard uses ångström so the collaboration between the projects will not be as easy and it seems that ångström has gotten longer in development than ubuntu arm

The projects seem to have a bit different aims, ångström to make an minimal and fast system and ubuntu to make an fullblown system. If that is true then I think ångström would suit better for intensive games and ubuntu if you wan't to use pandora for a little bit of everything (but then why do beagleboard use ångström?).

Well I don't know really, I hope they made the right decision, and hopefully from a technical viewpoint and not from which would give the most hype.

 

[Kyo]

Isn't ubuntu a bit bloated for the pandora? Surely this will reduce battery life?

 

[baztailor]

Highly optimised = bloat removed (well, as much as possible)

 

[ish420]

Xubuntu on Pandora sounds very exciting. I tried the eAR OS media center oriented distro based of Ubuntu and it was a nice experience. Also visually appealing. As for the Pandora, I'm not worried of it being bloated. I'm sure it will be stripped entirely and only essentials, like drivers for the Pandora, will be left intact. Basic apps maybe included. Like, say a media player, web browser and wordpad. (Kind of like an nLited version of windows.) Everything else could be gathered through the Pandora file archives. Which would work as a repository. I'm sure the normal Ubuntu repository filters will be removed to avoid downloading potentially crippling kernels and software. Noob proof, if you will. Any updated kernels and software would surely be gotten from there. Pandora just got a bit more exciting.

P.S. For the guy earlier in the thread, Linux Mint 5 is out. And in different flavors Gnome, KDE, XFCE, and ultra lightweight Fluxbox. I'm gonna have to check em out.

 

[john4p]

Das war nur zwischendurch eine Überlegung - Xubuntu wird zwar mit als Standard-OS angeboten, aber nur auf SD-Karte.
Angstrom bleibt auf dem NAND, das läuft auch schon sehr fein (ich hoffe, ich krieg bald ein Image, damit ich Videos machen kann).

Summary:

Pandora still has Ångström installed in its NAND-Flash. You may additionally run Xubuntu from SD-card.

 

[kloplop321]

Ah, so that means that they are offering a ubuntu version made for the pandora as well

 

[fordp]

I think people are missing the point here. This i not a desktop x86 computer. The OS should be configured for the device it is running on.

The sensisble choices are Maemo, Angstrom, Ubuntu Mobile, Andriod.

In reality I guess the OS will have elements from all of the above

Some may want a Full Desktop OS, but I guess that is a seperate project !

 

[mcobit]

http://www.xpud.org/

if ubuntu then something as optimised as this!

 

[tazg]

It's not like Xubuntu is a whole different thing, it's Ubuntu with a different default-software installation.
Right, and Joe Public understands that?

Really, a modified Ubuntu without a package-management system would recieve more critics then anything else. Ubuntu without it's demons and the huge package-repository is just as uncomfortable as most exotic distros out there
Any distro that has major modifications to it is no longer the same distro. So we will have a heavily modified and streamlined version of a modified and streamline version of a well known OS. That does sound like a major PR coup to me. :blink:

And before anyone gets the wrong idea, I am not criticising the choice - I have believed for a long time that the OS would need to be heavily customised - I am only stating that there is a big PR difference to saying "It runs Ubuntu" and "It runs a heavily modified Xubuntu with bits missing".


Since when does Joe Public even care what the OS is at all? This is technical, it has nothing to do with PR. And I think using ubuntu as a base is a terrible technical decision. I really hope this was a misunderstanding.

 

[Chero]

Some posts in this thread (and others) sound like they are telling facts, but they are not.
We don't know and so we are just guessing. If things are not "facts" but just wild guesses maybe we should start with saying "I guess" or "I think" or "I suppose" or one of the thousand ways of telling you don't really know. It would be easier for newbies to find out what really "is" and what only has been "guessed".

example :
QUOTE

...
The sensisble choices are Maemo, Angstrom, Ubuntu Mobile, Andriod.
...



Ubuntu mobile needs : 2GB to 8GB Flash or disk storage, 256MB+ memory/512MB+ recommended
Maemo, Angstrom and Android are indeed distros for a device like the pandora, but I personally don't think Android would be a good idea.
I've only seen moblin on a samsung Q1.

example 2 :
QUOTE

...
I prefer Angstrom over a debian-armel based OS like xubuntu or debian-armel ...
...



Angstrom is a debian based OS.
Debian-armel runs on a HTC universal, so it will probably fly on the pandora.

About the OS :
I don't know and I don't care ATM. I know the devs will do the best they can to make it really lean and mean.

Just my 0.02,
Chero.

 

[TaG]

Das war nur zwischendurch eine Überlegung - Xubuntu wird zwar mit als Standard-OS angeboten, aber nur auf SD-Karte.
Angstrom bleibt auf dem NAND, das läuft auch schon sehr fein (ich hoffe, ich krieg bald ein Image, damit ich Videos machen kann).
Summary:

Pandora still has Ångström installed in its NAND-Flash. You may additionally run Xubuntu from SD-card.
Any chance somebody could give an exact translation: This summary is contradictory to what has apparently been said, but may be explain in the detail.

It's not like Xubuntu is a whole different thing, it's Ubuntu with a different default-software installation.
Right, and Joe Public understands that?

Really, a modified Ubuntu without a package-management system would recieve more critics then anything else. Ubuntu without it's demons and the huge package-repository is just as uncomfortable as most exotic distros out there
Any distro that has major modifications to it is no longer the same distro. So we will have a heavily modified and streamlined version of a modified and streamline version of a well known OS. That does sound like a major PR coup to me. :blink:

And before anyone gets the wrong idea, I am not criticising the choice - I have believed for a long time that the OS would need to be heavily customised - I am only stating that there is a big PR difference to saying "It runs Ubuntu" and "It runs a heavily modified Xubuntu with bits missing".

Since when does Joe Public even care what the OS is at all? This is technical, it has nothing to do with PR. And I think using ubuntu as a base is a terrible technical decision. I really hope this was a misunderstanding.
I didn't say Joe Public did care : my posts were answering those that said Ubuntu would be good PR.


editted so quotes displayed properly. Doh!

 

[Svartalf]

Ubuntu mobile needs : 2GB to 8GB Flash or disk storage, 256MB+ memory/512MB+ recommended



Is that for ARM or for x86? If it's X86, you might be seeing half those stated requirements. Having said this, with 128Mb of RAM, things are bit tight for an ARM spin of Ubuntu Mobile, but not undoable- it'll crimp part of what you can do with a stock iteration of the device.

QUOTE

Maemo, Angstrom and Android are indeed distros for a device like the pandora, but I personally don't think Android would be a good idea.

Android's more for phones and limits some of the things you can do. Maemo and Angstrom are what I'd have chosen, seriously, for the platform.

Having said this, I've not had recent interaction with the dev team (Starting back up and trying to sort out a driver issue...) so I don't have a single clue what they're actually planning on using.

QUOTE

I've only seen moblin on a samsung Q1.



Heh... It's going to have the same sort of profile as Ubuntu Mobile. It's more for an eeePC type netbook than this sort of device. It's a bit heavier in footprint than the other choices.

QUOTE

Angstrom is a debian based OS.
Debian-armel runs on a HTC universal, so it will probably fly on the pandora.



Yep.

QUOTE

About the OS :
I don't know and I don't care ATM. I know the devs will do the best they can to make it really lean and mean.


Indeed. In the end, it's Linux. In the end, it's ARM Little-Endian. If it allows you maximal performance and doesn't have usage issues (custom UI on top of things...) who CARES which distribution it's running, save for PR reasons?

http://www.xpud.org/

if ubuntu then something as optimised as this!


No kidding...

Pandora still has Ångström installed in its NAND-Flash. You may additionally run Xubuntu from SD-card.

Now, that's what I'm under the understanding for what's going on. Since I've been out of touch with a few detail things, this could be wrong, but if ED's posting that, then this is likely to be what's going on- which is actually a GOOD thing, if you think about it. Basic-to-Medium capabilities out of the box, on-steroids-over-the-top with a bootable SD.

 

[Etinin]

I really hope the default OS is not *buntu or I'll feel obliged to 'dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda1'. *buntu is way too bloated (especially for a limited ARM processor) and our user base is expected to be somewhat more experienced with computers than average windows users. If you are a novice, I don't think you should have pre-ordered the Pandora in the first place, as its software won't be really polished in the begining.

And why did Squidge, apparently a member of the team, explicitly give us what seems to be wrong information and contradict EvilDragon?

 

[mali]

I really hope the default OS is not *buntu or I'll feel obliged to 'dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda1'. *buntu is way too bloated (especially for a limited ARM processor) and our user base is expected to be somewhat more experienced with computers than average windows users. If you are a novice, I don't think you should have pre-ordered the Pandora in the first place, as its software won't be really polished in the begining.

And why did Squidge, apparently a member of the team, explicitly give us what seems to be wrong information and contradict EvilDragon?

QUOTE
Das war nur zwischendurch eine Überlegung

It was considered in between(ubuntu)

QUOTE
Xubuntu bräuchte 300 MB minimal... 256MB haben wir

It doesn't fit on the NAND.

 

[skeezix]

Why the *buntu hostility? Its got name recognition for sure and is aimed at ease of use; only elitists are the ones who say 'burn in hell for making it easy to use!'. As an Emacs and long term unix nerd I can see your pain, but ... just run another OS. Its not like its in ROM here...

I call shenanigans!

(Besides, the only OS you need _is_ Emacs.)

jeff

 

[Svartalf]

It was considered in between(ubuntu)

And it's still doable off of an SD.

QUOTE

QUOTE
Xubuntu bräuchte 300 MB minimal... 256MB haben wir

It doesn't fit on the NAND.

Heh... I figured that was going to be the story- I remember the requirements for ARM Ubuntu being less than the ones stated in the thread, but not quite enough to fit on the NAND with a JFFS2 filesystem on it. In reality, the Angstrom based beastie will have room to grow and give people most of what they're going to need and they can boot easily into the over-the-top stuff with Xubuntu to show off.

Why the *buntu hostility? Its got name recognition for sure and is aimed at ease of use; only elitists are the ones who say 'burn in hell for making it easy to use!'.

(As I'm posting this from an Ubuntu box... )

I'm not at all against Ubuntu. I just didn't think it was a good, practical firmware base for an embedded device with only 256Mb of NAND and 128Mb of total system RAM. Turns out it won't fit in that profile. The embedded space is not something where you can willy-nilly grab desktop type functionality and apply it well to things. This, really, is an embedded device.

 

[TaG]

So - has this set them back any?

 

[der_kaim]

buntu hostility? Its got name recognition for sure and is aimed at ease of use; only elitists are the ones who say 'burn in hell for making it easy to use!

I think nobody here intends to be hostile to Ubuntu, but it's simply not the ideal distribution as the standard OS. It will be great on the SD Card and will bring nice usability
to the Pandora, but on the NAND there should be something lite and fast ... like Amstrong ...

Also, the Pandora is imho a kind of elitist device. So the reactions don't make me wonder.

just my 2 cents ...