Pandora Standard Distro: Armstrong Or *ubuntu?

[valhalla]

The FAQ says that the standard pandora distro will be based on armstrong + openembedded, and most of the forum seem to assume it will be so

However there are a couple posts deep in other topics, e.g. http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showt...mp;#entry660280 that imply that the standard distro has been changed to an ubuntu based one

Has it been a late change? anybody from the devs care to give a definite answer and update the faq?

 

[sindbad]

No change. The benefits and disadvantages of apt have been discussed by forum members and even if apt would be there, it would probably still not be based on ubuntu.

 

[benjiro]

No change. The benefits and disadvantages of apt have been discussed by forum members and even if apt would be there, it would probably still not be based on ubuntu.

Thats not what he asked.

There have been several references that they are using a xubuntu variant for the core now instead of Angström.

Posted on: Oct 20 2008, 07:11 PM by EvilDragon
> Yes. As it looks like, the main OS the Panda will based is a specially enhanced xubuntu.

http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showt...mp;#entry660619

Both ED and Squidge said the same thing indicating that the Pandora is not using Angström anymore.

 

[TaG]

No change. The benefits and disadvantages of apt have been discussed by forum members and even if apt would be there, it would probably still not be based on ubuntu.

Not per Squidge:

Oh, and Beagle uses Ångström, Pandora uses Ubuntu.

Wrong, the Ubuntu was just to show the Pandora's abilities.
The official distribution will be based on Angström.
Err, no. I'm one of the Pandora devs. I should know what distribution is being used

Or EvilDragon:

Yes. As it looks like, the main OS the Panda will based is a specially enhanced xubuntu.

 

[sindbad]

I'm a bit behind then, I apologize. And I don't think it's a particularly smart move, but that's just me.

 

[WizardStan]

This might possibly be the worst bit of news I've heard this entire project.
Or the best. Only time will tell.

 

[God Ginrai]

This might possibly be the worst bit of news I've heard this entire project.

I feel much the same. I can only hope that they have taken out most of the n00b features of ubuntu. -_-'

-God Ginrai

 

[Lorkile]

I enjoy Mint on my laptop which as I understand is based on Ubuntu, so the change (for me) could be rather favorable.

As for the Pandora as a whole, I imagine the massive publicity from Digg thanks to the popularity of Ubuntu, will overall be better for the change over thanks to more users enjoying it. Though I wonder if this means in the short term the software will suffer a bit from it.

 

[benjiro]

I enjoy Mint on my laptop which as I understand is based on Ubuntu, so the change (for me) could be rather favorable.

As for the Pandora as a whole, I imagine the massive publicity from Digg thanks to the popularity of Ubuntu, will overall be better for the change over thanks to more users enjoying it. Though I wonder if this means in the short term the software will suffer a bit from it.

Will it really suffer from the move to xubuntu?

The last stats the we knew was ubuntu from mojo.handhelds.org ( done by notasaz - Ubuntu on Pandora devboard (2) ) running.

At the command line we know it has around 108MB free. So, thats what you can expect to have free for running without the shell. If you use debian, ubuntu, or Angström, at this point, except maybe a few extra services, there is not going to be much difference between distributions, and those unneeded services can be disabled.

We also know that when gnome was loaded, there is 69MB free. Assuming that the move to xfce has a nice drop ( some old figures below show a difference of 30MB ). Some numbers to play with

In other words, in theory, memory is not going to be a major problem ( still saying that 256MB sounds better *lol* ). May also be the reason the switch was done. Games -> Kill shell and x. Maximum memory. Return from game, start up x & shell again...

So, is that really going to limiting the software? I don't see why it shall. If the os is Angström or xubuntu, the moment the system kills x, the difference between the system ( except some services ), will be minimal.

Its going to be interesting to find out how much memory the Pandy is using now with a optimized xubuntu version.

Lets face it, the PR alone is going to sell a lot of devices. And if there are no vast performance, maintenance, etc problems created by going xubuntu, so why not? The choice to switch probably will not have been taken lightly...

 

[Phawx]

I agree with Benjiro. *untu has a LOT of marketing behind it. I streamlined version of Xubuntu would allow us to have our cake and eat it too.

 

[TaG]

Lets face it, the PR alone is going to sell a lot of devices. And if there are no vast performance, maintenance, etc problems created by going xubuntu, so why not? The choice to switch probably will not have been taken lightly...

I am not convinced there is huge publicity value in Xubuntu. Go look at distrowatch.com. Xubuntu is down in 26th place at the moment, a couple of places below the world famous sidux and with a fraction of the hits of Ubuntu. If you mention Ubuntu to 'none-geeks' they might have heard of it. Mention Kubuntu you get all sorts of questions or glazed eyes. When you start to explain some people think it is a rip off and must be a poor relation, getting about as much positive PR as saying "Look at my cheap Chinese ipod clone, it does everything the original does".

 

[Lorkile]

What the others dislike about the idea is part of the elitism that has grown into this community, that Ubuntu and such derivatives are too easy to use and will draw in a vast number of users who will create problems.

Sure, this may be the better attitude towards creating a superior device in the long term (from what I would be willing to wager on). But as far as popularity and financial gains go it would seem that using Ubuntu will be the way to go, even with some loss towards performance since it will mean a larger community and greater profits.

So, I honestly think that this will create an environment that is easier to work with from my perspective, but could also send more users looking into a new community if/when we do get flooded with people who came here just because it is a derivative of Ubuntu and will come with that "it should just work" mentality.

 

[God Ginrai]

I enjoy Mint on my laptop which as I understand is based on Ubuntu, so the change (for me) could be rather favorable.

As for the Pandora as a whole, I imagine the massive publicity from Digg thanks to the popularity of Ubuntu, will overall be better for the change over thanks to more users enjoying it. Though I wonder if this means in the short term the software will suffer a bit from it.

Will it really suffer from the move to xubuntu?

The last stats the we knew was ubuntu from mojo.handhelds.org ( done by notasaz - Ubuntu on Pandora devboard (2) ) running.

At the command line we know it has around 108MB free. So, thats what you can expect to have free for running without the shell. If you use debian, ubuntu, or Angström, at this point, except maybe a few extra services, there is not going to be much difference between distributions, and those unneeded services can be disabled.

We also know that when gnome was loaded, there is 69MB free. Assuming that the move to xfce has a nice drop ( some old figures below show a difference of 30MB ). Some numbers to play with

In other words, in theory, memory is not going to be a major problem ( still saying that 256MB sounds better *lol* ). May also be the reason the switch was done. Games -> Kill shell and x. Maximum memory. Return from game, start up x & shell again...

So, is that really going to limiting the software? I don't see why it shall. If the os is Angström or xubuntu, the moment the system kills x, the difference between the system ( except some services ), will be minimal.

Its going to be interesting to find out how much memory the Pandy is using now with a optimized xubuntu version.

Lets face it, the PR alone is going to sell a lot of devices. And if there are no vast performance, maintenance, etc problems created by going xubuntu, so why not? The choice to switch probably will not have been taken lightly...


You shouldn't always kill X for games. Only when you need all the power and RAM you can get. (for an N64 or PSX emu maybe) I know that I'd like the ability to multitask with my games and apps.

-God Ginrai

 

[AireTamStorm]

Ubuntu is a good move here. The repositories and level of standardization are good. I hate it as a desktop distro, and always will, but as a handheld distro I don't think we could do much better at the core. Knowing I'll have access to a reasonably up-to-date and not entirely specialized gcc on the device itself is very good.

On another note, I voted Gentoo a while back in one of the various polls regarding which distro to use.

 

[conso]

Lets face it, the PR alone is going to sell a lot of devices. And if there are no vast performance, maintenance, etc problems created by going xubuntu, so why not? The choice to switch probably will not have been taken lightly...

I am not convinced there is huge publicity value in Xubuntu. Go look at distrowatch.com. Xubuntu is down in 26th place at the moment, a couple of places below the world famous sidux and with a fraction of the hits of Ubuntu. If you mention Ubuntu to 'none-geeks' they might have heard of it. Mention Kubuntu you get all sorts of questions or glazed eyes. When you start to explain some people think it is a rip off and must be a poor relation, getting about as much positive PR as saying "Look at my cheap Chinese ipod clone, it does everything the original does".


It's not like Xubuntu is a whole different thing, it's Ubuntu with a different default-software installation. That's why the viral-marketing-effect depends on one mayor thing: If a package-management system is available or not. Really, a modified Ubuntu without a package-management system would recieve more critics then anything else. Ubuntu without it's demons and the huge package-repository is just as uncomfortable as most exotic distros out there. If a package-management is available, I'm sure the news would say: "Pandora uses Ubuntu, modified for small devices" - and that's basically what it will be.

Don't want to say that PXML is a bad idea - it's really a great concept, but only in addition to a real package-management.

 

[TaG]

It's not like Xubuntu is a whole different thing, it's Ubuntu with a different default-software installation.
Right, and Joe Public understands that?

Really, a modified Ubuntu without a package-management system would recieve more critics then anything else. Ubuntu without it's demons and the huge package-repository is just as uncomfortable as most exotic distros out there
Any distro that has major modifications to it is no longer the same distro. So we will have a heavily modified and streamlined version of a modified and streamline version of a well known OS. That does sound like a major PR coup to me. :blink:

And before anyone gets the wrong idea, I am not criticising the choice - I have believed for a long time that the OS would need to be heavily customised - I am only stating that there is a big PR difference to saying "It runs Ubuntu" and "It runs a heavily modified Xubuntu with bits missing".

 

[Lorkile]

TaG, and I think you've got exactly the right idea on why Ubuntu.

 

[kloplop321]

yay for *buntu
Well this means that an APT repository would be easy because it can be added to the list
But can it fit on that 256 meg chip?

 

[benjiro]

You shouldn't always kill X for games. Only when you need all the power and RAM you can get. (for an N64 or PSX emu maybe) I know that I'd like the ability to multitask with my games and apps.

Yea, that will depend more on the amount of memory the base os uses. In theory, you can keep x & the shell active, and let the os offload the shell, etc to the swap file. Linux is rather good on that part ( unlike windows ).

One of the reasons i like to get a faster SD card then just a class 6. With only 128MB memory, writing any used memory to the swap will be done rather fast. I don't know the max ( and affordable ) speeds a SD card can do, but if you can write 10MB/s, you can quickly offload anything in memory when you start to game ( and if the game uses more then the available memory ).

Or maybe a small SDD on the usb port. The USB is capable of 35MB/s ( thats about the max any USB port gets ), combined with a small but fast SDD. Free almost your entire memory in 2 a 3 seconds for your gaming pleasure, and when you quit, everything is back the way you left it

The PSX emulator ran on the GP2X with 64MB of ram, so in theory, unless you have a lot of open program, it can run under the multi task environment.

Love to see some more information how & what is going on with the Pandora ( including the OS ).

 

[kloplop321]

Well it is possible to do a SWAP mount if you have the card partitioned for it. I would rather get a cheap 1 gig card for that in the second slot and it be made for constant use, as RAM is used constantly