Pandora Relevance To Nokia N810 Internet Tablet

[ssstratton]

As an N810 internet tablet owner, I thought it might be useful to

• show some similarities between the n810 and the pandora
• show differences
• make some observations (based on the use the n810) that might help both communities

Firstly - for those who don't know the n810 - here's a summary of my impressions of the differences and similarities between the n810 and the pandora - they both:

1. fit in your pocket
2. have a keyboard
3. run Linux
4. have an 800x480 display (oops - not 600 - thank you)
5. have touch screens
6. are aimed at a relatively small audience

The differences are worth noting (based on expected pandora hardware)

1. the n810 is smaller
2. the pandora has a (slightly) larger display
3. the n810 keyboard is (hopefully) inferior to the pandora keyboard
4. the pandora has joysticks, etc.
5. the n810 looks more professional/serious
6. the pandora should run much faster than the n810
7. the pandora can take 2 full size sd cards (up to 64GB - I believe) n810 is limited to 8GB (maybe 32GB) in one miniSD (+2GB fixed internal) - (thanks for the update - posters)
8. the n810 has a slide keyboard - the pandora is a clam shell - personally I prefer clam shell due to the extra protection for the screen - but I do also like quick access to a finger based display (thanks for the update - posters)

So - why would I NOT recommend my n810 to people (lots of people look - and think - that looks nice - but I have to put them off - why?)

Basically it is a tech savvy machine. Firstly it runs linux - so you need to understand (or learn) packages, devices, root access, xterm, etc. if you really want to get to grips with it. The Pandora looks like more of the same (if not more so) to me. Most people just want their PDA to work - the n810 is first and foremost a pocketable browser - much as the pandora is first and foremost a pocketable games emulator. Neither are really PDAs (though they both could be great PDAs wth the right software).

The screen resolution on the n810 is (just a bit) too high for a device this small - 800x480 sounds great, until you try selecting tiny scroll bars with a stylus (and forget being on the bus). If you want to do a comparison take your 14" laptop, set the screen to 800x600 (ok - it's a bit taller) and then stand back about 4-5 feet from the screen. The n810 has tried to produce finger friendly access - but this just consumes pixels (and appears vastly inferior to the iPhone). Keyboard access is better - but limited (the n770 and n800 are still around - and have no keyboard - they still pull a lot of the development).

The PIM (personal information manager) software in the n810 is a major problem. Users have been ranting about it for ages - yet nothing seems to happen.

Please don't get me wrong - I'm actually for devices like the n810 and pandora. I've used many in the past - starting with a Psion Sienna/Revo - and going through Tungsten C and 9300i as well (I still keep that in my pocket). It seems to me that they have to be useful as much as they have to be portable. And software can be the key.

So, I urge all the potential users to develop for both machines (obviously performance dependant) - both communities will benefit.

If you want to develop for the Pandora - can I recommend looking at using Python with pygame, or possibly the n810 scratchbox development kit - if you fancy using C++ and maybe porting from Hildon.

If you want to see what pygame on a touch screen tablet can do - have a look at pydrum/pyano for a start (see youtube).

Best wishes
Andy Stratton

 

[Polossatik]

As an N800 owner I can only hope for a coexistance between the maemo community and this one.....

Which, seen the fact both or very "open" minded, I'm pretty sure will happen

amen.

 

[mali]

Seeing that the RX-51 will be OMAP3 makes it even easier.

 

[greendots]

just wanted to let you know both screens (n810 and pandora) have a 800x480 screen not 800x600.

 

[cobaltage]

Seeing that the RX-51 will be OMAP3 makes it even easier.

It's not unlikely that the updated tablet will be released or at least revealed very soon. The cost of the N810 has dropped rather suddenly, which happened to the N770 right before the N800 was released. Also, the N810 Wimax version was released and then discontinued (for more than one reason I'm sure, although it was very Nokia of Nokia to release it at all). Thoughtfix on his Tabletblog is guessing the updated tablet will be announced at some tech show later this month. It will be interesting to see where Nokia goes with the design.

Anyway, I'm also hoping for some synergy between the Pandora and Maemo 5.

 

[Lorkile]

Thanks for the discussion of this, in the past all I've heard people point others to was an EEE PC and such and I do think that had I known more about the market I would be far more interested in this N810 since it seems far more usable for reading and as a notepad due to the design.

Still, I'm not regretting my purchase by any means. Without a physical comparison of at least a solid Saturday I don't think I would even be able to tell you which I would be happier with since the dual analogs on the Pandora are likely to really make me happy to completely replace my PSP with it.

 

[Yigguth]

just wanted to let you know both screens (n810 and pandora) have a 800x480 screen not 800x600.

Really?

 

[lulzfish]

The Pandora does anyway, and I really don't think the N810 has a 4:3, so it's probably 800x480 as well.

 

[j.pickens]

The Pandora does anyway, and I really don't think the N810 has a 4:3, so it's probably 800x480 as well.

All the Nokia internet tablets are 800 by 480.
N770, 800, and 810, and N810 Wimax.

 

[Svartalf]

It's not unlikely that the updated tablet will be released or at least revealed very soon.

Considering that they've announced OS2009 and it being specifically for their new tablet...

QUOTE

Also, the N810 Wimax version was released and then discontinued (for more than one reason I'm sure, although it was very Nokia of Nokia to release it at all).



The main reason it was dropped was that the customer that made the device viable wasn't at all ready for it (Sprint...) at the time. I suspect that there'll be a WiMax version of the new one when the time comes for it to come out. Think of your mobile phone as more of a data spigot and voice being merely an application on top of it.

QUOTE

Anyway, I'm also hoping for some synergy between the Pandora and Maemo 5.



That's very likely. They're using the same SoC we're using and mostly the same basic hardware and drivers with only slightly differing OS buildouts and the UI layer being slightly different (though you COULD use the FULL Maemo UI on the Pandora.

Really?

Really. As an owner of an N800 and a Rev 2 dev-board holder, I can assure you that this really IS the case.

 

[Tor]

The N810 has just a single, _MINI_ SD slot, the Pandora has two full-size SD slots (just like the N800). This makes the Pandora wastly superior to the N810 in my opinion.

 

[Karel Jansens]

The N810 has just a single, _MINI_ SD slot, the Pandora has two full-size SD slots (just like the N800). This makes the Pandora wastly superior to the N810 in my opinion.

That was my main reason for not buying a N810. I can have 64 GB on my N800 now, against a paltry 34 GB (assuming I can even find a 32 GB miniSD) on the N810. And it appears that miniSD is on the way out anyway; there are now three almost universal card formats: CompactFlash, SD(HC) and microSD.

Other turnoffs were the crappy design decisions: D-pad is only accessible with the keypad out, the slideout keypad is (in my case at least) very hard to use, the built-in GPS is completely useless for those who already have an external GPS. And finally, Nokia's treatment of its user base has been less than stellar recently: Any bug filed against ITOS2008 is bound to be answered with: "Fixed in Fremantle", which translates to: "We won't fix this. You just have to buy a new device from us, stupid user".

 

[Tor]

It's sad, but I have to agree.. particularly the ways bugs are "fixed" (by not fixing them but pointing you at a new device). It's more than a turn-off, it's.. more than my English vocabulary can support.

 

[cobaltage]

I liked the Nokia 770, but it seemed like the way it worked was that you got a cool device for less than what you would think it would have cost, but you got left behind with the next model. So even though the N800 looked great, I felt like I couldn't continue being a part of the whole thing.

Knowing what we already know about the next internet tablet, there are still some critical details I'm interested in seeing:
1. the battery life;
2. keyboard design (if there is one); and
3. the price.

I'm expecting that the new Nokia will be physically smaller than the Pandora, which means a physically smaller battery but more pocketable; that it will have more hardware (a camera and GPS) and a higher price than the Pandora. I would much rather have gaming controls on a necessarily larger device with a larger battery than a camera and GPS. The fact that the Pandora is actually quite a bit less expensive than the pricepoint of previous Nokia internet tablets is to me pretty fascinating.

 

[Tor]

The new Nokia device will also have hspa (a sim slot), which I for one have absolutely no interest in on a device like this. (In other parts of the world it may make more sense, but for me it's simply a way of greatly increasing cost.)

 

[darkblu]

The new Nokia device will also have hspa (a sim slot), which I for one have absolutely no interest in on a device like this. (In other parts of the world it may make more sense, but for me it's simply a way of greatly increasing cost.)

frankly, i don't see much point in a non-telephone device supporting hspa - you still need to carry a phone with you, and chances are that phone will already have both hspa and bt - these are really basic functions in today's middle and up handsets. ergo, your tablet needs to have bt alone. wifi in it would be a much more useful feature.

 

[Tor]

Exactly. I'm carrying two phones (thus two sim cards and contracts) already, I don't want to carry a third sim card just to get data, while I can easily get data through one of the phones, through BT. That works just fine with my current Nokia device (N800), there's no reason it shouldn't work even better on the newer, faster omap3 devices.

 

[White Flame]

As an N800 owner, I haven't been all that impressed by the speed or usability of it. It has some terrible UI decisions, and most things don't allow font sizes to be adjusted. I look forward to having a more "real" Linux environment.

The N810's slide out keyboard also obscures the top "shoulder" buttons, because they're on the part that slides down and end up halfway down the back of the screen.

Also, under maemo, any files on FAT32 formatted cards always have -rw-rw-rw- permissions, meaning you can't ./configure && make source code releases at all, due to the lack of executable scripts. Usually under desktop linux, all FAT32/NTFS files are -rwxrwxrwx. Hence, it's always a super pain to get anything running on the device that doesn't have a maemo-specific installer. The apt packaging system is a total mess with confusing multiple repositories, incompatibilities, a broken GUI that always gets confused, and everything you try to install wants to remove busybox and the entire baseline apps which would mung up your device. Again, I'm looking forward to a real, externally-supported Linux.

Nokia's tablets are a reasonable start, but are poor in a number of ways.

 

[Tor]

It's easy enough to change the default mount options for your fat32 sd cards. You can for example edit /usr/sbin/mmc-mount and remove the 'noexec' there (and add 'noatime' while you're at it). In any case, with fat32 you can never win. It's just a terribly lousy file system in all respects.

 

[cools]

I didn't buy any of the Nokia MIDs as none of them offered much benefit to me over my old and battered Sony Clie. The keyboard and Linux are nice but they all need cases to be pocketable.

I was really, really tempted though.

Benefits of pandora? Clamshell, proper keyboard (not thumb keyboard), gaming controls. The rest are luxuries