Pandora Questions And Answers


Gruso said:
Granted, I probably shouldn't judge all EeePC's on my old man's original 701 model.
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I was speaking of the 701, turning off shaders and using 640x480 or lower will enable you to play many games. My "fast" laptop is a 500mhz K6-2 with a Trident Savage and a passive matrix screen. My fastest "handheld/kneetop" was a Libretto 100CT (266mhz MMX, 32MB of ram.)

It is all about perspective, and a 701 is plenty capable:

Halo (I apologize, it looks like you need a software wrapper/null driver to get around the shader support issue.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf7vQRXXRxo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKQv_aBem-U...feature=related

Halo + more FPS (UT2004 @2:35, Halo @4:20)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCUm9z0jKGU...feature=related

Oblivion and morrowind:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyLrs-4TAjw&feature=user

How to clock back to 900mhz chip stock speed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzSK-FH9VLI&feature=user

Emulators:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7l9cHEChzI&feature=user

Music, Video, Google Earth, Open Office + Youtube on EEE PC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwpHCJ_jl70&feature=user

Zelda Oracle of Time (n64)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKdbhxfX1P4...feature=related

I do agree you have to be pretty knowledgeable to wring this kind of performance out of the Eeepc, and endless tweaking of an XP environment may not be your favorite thing (I am not even sure it is mine anymore).
 
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Gruso said:
Cool, I appreciate the insights. :) I'm impressed.
Click to expand...
Lol, I should sleep, it is 3:20 AM here. If the Dual-Core Atom with integrated PowerVR SGX ever comes out I would love to see more gaming on a portable XP platform :).

PowerVR SGX is a Shader model 4.0 DirectX 10.1 supporting product?? http://www.google.com/search?q=powervr+sgx+directx

The EeePC's downfall seems to be the chipset, it is on very old tech (poor heat and power consumption, also uses a lot of silicon) and very poor Intel integrated graphics. I don't know about the Atom for gaming, only that the Pentium M is pretty good tech (started the whole Core revolution after hardcore hardware nuts started using Pentium M for the desktop when it was realized that clock-for-clock it outperformed Pentium 4 tech.)

I want one, but I still am not going to buy one until the promised $200 price point, I found a completed ebay auction for one sans battery, ~$180 + shipping, it even had a power supply.

I agree the gaming controls will likely be poor, so you can either mod it, use clip on controls, or use a gamepad. I also bet a targus mini-mouse on one knee and the Eeepc on the other knee might work for a FPS, if you are sitting down.

With the Libretto (I think they are roughly the same size) I used my thumb on the keys to play kgen98 the DOS Genesis emulator, and it worked OK, not great, you could probably attach a dpad in place of 4 keys, or on top of the keys, and make passable gaming controls.
 
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hai all, my first topic... :ph34r:

I wanted to ask a few questions about the usb-compatibility-driver-thinga.

1. Can I use a USB-hub with Pandora?
2. Will Pandora/the emulators have support for game pads?

I already know that I'll be able to set the pandora to not sleep while i close the lid, and that it'll have TV-output. So if the answer to my questions is yes, MY PANDORA IS MY SNES :ph34r:
 
Yes and yes. :)

Long answers:

The USB port will support most every day things like hubs, HDDs, thumb drives, keyboards, mice and gamepads. This is built into the OS. More specialised devices might require drivers to be written/ported.

For gamepads to work in emulators, the functionality also has to be included by the dev working on that emu. The good news is, gamepad support has already been implemented in many of the emus on GP2X - and it's largely these emulators that are coming over to Pandora.


Sink your inquisitive claws into ye olde FAQ: http://pandorawiki.org/FAQ
 
polooo2 said:
well if you wanna play psx games while riding a mass transit, pandora is the answer...
Click to expand...
:huh: if you just want to play PSX games on the go, a PSP is the answer.
 
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I just discovered this neat project today and I already love it :ph34r: but I have a few concerns that might stop the love. I decided to post them here instead of making multiple topics and review old threads. I see that the team isn't accepting suggestions to hardware for MK1 anymore so the suggestions might only apply for the hopefully future editions of Pandora.

Hardware
  • Finish
    This one is quite important since the Pandora is not exactly slim, so it should have a finish that makes it look slimer/better. I like HP Compaq's design, it's nearly black and it looks like it like transparent plastic over some shiny plastic convering the inside (I'll take a picture of it later, I just found one on the web for now). It's combination black/gray/blue and it's very sturdy, the best looking laptop I've seen so far. I'm hoping the Pandora won't be 100% black but with some gray variation for the screen and/or keypad layers.

    I also belive that it should (or should not?) have a Pandora logo on top.
  • Sound QualityDAC
    I saw a post stating the use of Burr Brown DACs, and by the specs they are of the cheaper kind, but they should work. For real hifi an external USB DAC may be used. Hopefully there will be a common API for sound so specific applications doesn't need to support this.
  • Amplifier
    I don't know what you use here, but I bet it's an opamp or a simple A/B stage. The use of Tripath Class T/D chips might lower power use and give better sound. The smallest Tripath amplifier I've seen is AMP-3X, but it's 25W and has a somewhat big chip. Hopefully Tripath makes smaller, lower power chips. Unfortunately people have reported these amplifier to be unstable...
  • Speakers
    A common issue with laptops is that the cheap loudspeakers get pretty much worn out, producing really crappy sound. I see that you could fit 3x loudspeakers on each side of the screen, or 2x where one is a low frequency rectangle. Using multiple loudspeakers will reduce the load and increase linearity. I feel that this is very imporant since I don't like having things in or around my ears.
[*]Power Light Location/Size
I think this should be of the same size as the SDs and Wifi lights. Having it so big makes the round thing look rounder :eek:

[*]Slimness
You seem to have alot of connectors, there is basically holes everywhere!
I was wonder what is the possibility to reduce the size if you removed some stuff? Like an SD card less, no RS232 (my computer lacks one anyway <_<) and no BlueTooth.

Yeah and where did you place the battery? :blink:

Software
  • Shell
    There should be a common shell/userface which have some basic components and each application should fill the screen leaving customizable taskbars on the screen. This way more processing power would go to the application. A fullscreen mode for the application should also be preset. This shell should be customizable and themeable.
  • GBA Emulator
    I was just wondering how compitable the instruction set for ARM Cortex-A8 is with the GBA, since it has a MMU it might be possible to make a good emulator running nearly unmodified code?
That sums it up for now, except more once I know more about the software ;)
 
If you read the faq, you'll find out the device runs Linux, so applications should have no requirement to support additional hardware directly (although it might mean an app to select such a usb device).

The idea with the power light is that you can see it when the case is closed, so you can notice the device is in standby/charging/etc without opening the lid.

Removing stuff like SD card, RS232 and BlueTooth would not reduce the size by any. You would still need the size for the first sd card, RS232 is built into the OMAP SOC, and Bluetooth is built into the Wifi. To make it thinner, the best things to change would be the speakers, LCD, keyboard and battery (which goes in the bottom half). Since you want decent speakers instead of crap ones, you might as well have a decent LCD as the space will be there anyway. Also, a device will only a 2 hour run time will be poor, so no point making the bottom any thinner.
 
First of all, Kyosys is right, there is about 0% chance that the design will be changed which makes all this pretty useless in the first place. Anyway, my point of view on this:
  • Finish
    "make it look slimmer" :blink:
    Nice sleek looks are the last thing I want the Pandora crew to be spending money on. This is a "geekboy" most of the time running Linux/homebrew/emulator's, not a hi-end comercial Iphone/psp competitor. (although it beats those two spec-wise without any problems)
  • DAC
    Even the low-end BurrBrows are pretty damn good for an Portable Device such as this. I bet it buttkicks the NDS/GBA anyway.
  • Amplifier
    Hmm, removable DIP-8 op-amps would be pretty damn awesome, but that would increase the price alot, and they're pretty big too. Anyhow, you can always rig up a small headphone amplifier.
  • Speakers
    Even if they'd put in NO speakers, I wouldn't care at all. Smack in some decent in-ears (I'm gonna get another pair of Creative EP630's, just for this baby) and you get all the soundquality you'll need for them awesome midi-tunes :lol: .
 
Squidge said:
If you read the faq, you'll find out the device runs Linux, so applications should have no requirement to support additional hardware directly (although it might mean an app to select such a usb device).

The idea with the power light is that you can see it when the case is closed, so you can notice the device is in standby/charging/etc without opening the lid.

Removing stuff like SD card, RS232 and BlueTooth would not reduce the size by any. You would still need the size for the first sd card, RS232 is built into the OMAP SOC, and Bluetooth is built into the Wifi. To make it thinner, the best things to change would be the speakers, LCD, keyboard and battery (which goes in the bottom half). Since you want decent speakers instead of crap ones, you might as well have a decent LCD as the space will be there anyway. Also, a device will only a 2 hour run time will be poor, so no point making the bottom any thinner.
Click to expand...
I agree with pretty much everything Squidge said, except that I think we could forget the speakers (make them smaller) and slim up the lid.

Also, I think the base could be slimmer if the controls were slimmed a bit and the battery made wider and flatter. This is clearly a very expensive option needing custom Analog sliders and battery.

Have you looked at the pictures of the PCB? I don't think removing connectors and functionalty will make it any slimmer, although we could make it look slimmer with a full-length cap/cover that only exposes the mini-USB and one SD slot with the volume wheel. This could be shapely, shiny and slim.

This isn't a mainstream system that can justify the cost through commercial games and a large market. But it should show Nintendo and Sony that they really need to bring it, and maybe Sony can ditch the disks finally and support SD.
 
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The DAC has an opamp built into the package for the purposes of amplification, just like every cheap DAC chip nowadays. If you want a good DAC, Headroom has a great battery powered DAC/headphone amp for about $1000. You could also build an even better DAC, with a usb to I2S interface, for about $400, and then build or buy whatever amp you want. Don't expect a $330 handheld computer to have anything approaching high quality audio ouput; it's not even remotely reasonable.

Speakers? You really want decent speakers on something like this?

And there's no tripath amplifier which would use less power than the entire system already does.

Visual Boy Advance already has a debian ARM port, so the Pandora currently has a working GBA emulator, even if it isn't optimized yet.
 
If you are willing to pay a little more, the Raon Digital Everun Note will be available very shortly and will easily overtake the Pandora and every other handheld/"hip-top" computer out there. It has a 1.2GHz AMD dual core processor that is downclocked when not on AC power, but as soon as it plugs in, the second core turns on and it flies. It also has ATI discreet graphics which no other computer in its size range has offered and a 7" screen at 1024 X 600. The price range is a little high comparably (~$800 new), but it is very small and the most powerful netbook ever offered.

I own a WiBrain B1 and it plays PSX full speed and a good handful of N64 are playable. It also has a nice form-factor for gaming and a reasonable price (I got mine for $400 USD used with 1GB RAM and a 30GB HDD). The I1 will also offer some improvements and stay in the same price range (better heat management, SD card slot, Atom processor instead of the VIA C7-M).

The issue with most of these UMPCs is that they are not meant for gaming. If you are getting something just for gaming and very basic applications, the Pandora wins out, hands down. If you need something for a computer and gaming on the side, you need a UMPC/Netbook/laptop/whatever the Hell you wanna call it. In the end, it really has to come down to how you are going to use it every day.

My opinion is that if someone has a powerful enough UMPC and a decent MID (<read: Everun Note or Wibrain and Pandora) they will never need another gadget again as nearly every base is covered. Of course, if you need a Crysis killer or something for really hardcore sound production then you need a full featured desktop/laptop, but the average user will only need these two devices. Instant on Pandora for your gaming, web surfing, maybe office applications and the UMPC for more intense Windows applications.
 
This is like asking "Turkey or Salami". Sure, they both go on sandwiches. but that's about the only similarity. If you had half a brain or the will to discern an answer for yourself, you could do so based on your needs. Besides, this has to be at least the fourth time someone has posted a thread like this, and that's just in my limited stay here. :rolleyes:
 
nubie said:
Gruso said:
Granted, I probably shouldn't judge all EeePC's on my old man's original 701 model.
Click to expand...
I was speaking of the 701, turning off shaders and using 640x480 or lower will enable you to play many games. My "fast" laptop is a 500mhz K6-2 with a Trident Savage and a passive matrix screen. My fastest "handheld/kneetop" was a Libretto 100CT (266mhz MMX, 32MB of ram.)

It is all about perspective, and a 701 is plenty capable...



Great thanks. I can really use this! Still looks framy as hell. Guess I have different standards.
Click to expand...
 
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OK people, we have gpSP already with a fully-working dynarec, no point in talking about VBA.... I'm sure Exophase will get it working in no time.
 
Now, I am pretty much set on preordering a Pandora, or if not that buying one eventually but, I have some questions that I would want to be answered first.

The Quality of the LCD
How good is the LCD going to be in terms of contrast, black and white levels, response rate and etc? I know it has a nice high resolution screen, but that is meaning less to me if everything else is subpar. For those of you who have looked at it, is it around the level of a PSP's? Better? Worse?

Sound Quality
Preferably, I would like the sound quality to be on par with at least an iPod (Whom of which has sound quality which is above average, but not stunning). In a best case scenario I would like it to have excellent sound quality near maybe a Zune or a Cowon iAudio, this is unlikely though. Anyone who has heard the Pandora, who good does it sound? Volume output?

Also, who good are the speakers, or how good will they be?


Thanks in advance for your responses.
 
there really is no unbiased source of information at this point, as all people who hold this knowledge are involved in the making, chances are they are high quality though
check out grusos links, especially the faq
 
I have heard of one or two reviews claiming the archos touch screens were "muddier" than their normal counterparts (maximum pc), but i smell a little bias in their review.
I would assume the speakers to be comparable to the old ds, but i really have no idea.
 
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