Pandora Killed The Wiz

[SomeGuy99]

No one is to blame for wiz sales except for the wiz designers. The better machine gets better sales.

Is it really a bad machine though? Maybe not ambitious enough to be interesting, but bad?

If the Pandora proves anything though, it's that realising an ambition can be painful. I can see why many companies avoid that kind of endeavour.

 

[MonkeyChops]

I didn't say bad. Just not as good as pandora in my book (mainly b/c of keyboard and analog sticks). I think the painful part for pandora was more because they didn't have the bank roll to get the project off the ground as fast as bigger companies could have, not because of being ambitious.

 

[TitanUranus]

Well, I'm not a person who's prone to public displays of affection, but I do harbour much affection for Pickle's work on the Wiz. Really, it's sad to see someone like him hurt by people who criticise. In my own opinion, the Wiz certainly has a lot of potential that remains to be unleashed - but for what I wanted it for at the time I bought it was worth it - just.

The thing I really hoped it would emulate was the genuine delight when I discovered a new emulator to play with, a new system I hadn't tried, a new feature or a new performance gain that excited me and kept me hooked from the early days after I got my first PC in 1997. Everything was new, developments came in thick and fast and it really was an exciting time in my life. In reality the situation with the Wiz was that there wasn't a lot of new stuff, everything was a port from the gp32/gp2x and the software generally got ported and stuck at that. Development was a trickle, not the flood I'd hoped and dreamed of. That said, I love retro gaming (I owned 32 different typed of computer/console last count) and it handled that side of things pretty well. For me the problem was it was not as much of an upgrade from my beloved gp32 as I had hoped for - indeed in many ways it was an inferior device. Clearly it has more power, and can emulate more complex systems, but the controls and screensize were an issue for me.

I see why the negative comments hurt Pickle, he was the leader of the pack - yelling at his troops "come on, follow me - together we'll create something exceptional" but in the case of the Wiz no one seemed to bother following and that is sad. I can't see the same thing happening again with the Pandora, but it's a more exciting machine - not simply because of it's power but because it's something new. Something people will have to learn to use, learn to program for and build up from a solid creative foundation.

Pandora didn't kill the Wiz anymore than the PC killed the Amiga or C64 killed the Amstrad CPC - they're totally different devices of interest to different people. Right here and now if you want a working portable gaming machine that plays all the great stuff you loved playing as a kid, and can play movies and music too - the Wiz is a great buy. The marketing blurb tells you what you can play on it and it does pretty much what it says on the tin. Just don't expect floods of new and interesting stuff to come out for it. Hopefully it will get some boost from stuff developed for Pandora but don't count on it.

For me upgrading from the GP32 to a GP2X didn't seem worthwhile. I was finally tempted by the "3rd generation" gamepark device hoping it'd be another leap forward, in fact it was really just like upgrading to an Amiga 600 from an Amiga 500 when I was expecting an Amiga 1200.

 

[fusion_power]

I don't have a Wiz but I have a GP2X. And I know that this little Handheld was powerful enough for GBA Emulation and the 3D Game Payback. Last one showed what is possible even onto a GP2X but sadly I've never seen any Project that was able to squeeze out this Graphic Power.
I guess the main Prroblem with the GP2X and the WIz and maybe the Pandora is, that only a few coders really can take advantage of all the rough Hardware Power these Devices can offer. I talk about using any existing register and circuit that helps to create outstanding stuff. I guess, the Wiz still has a future if people can manage to Access all the stuff that's inside. Maybe you Wiz owners even have a N64 Emulator some day, who knows?
http://forum.gp2x.de/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=9631

However, no Device will last forever, new generations "kill" old generations (of comparable Hardware) some day. The GP2X is pretty death since the WIZ is out but I think that Pandora and Wiz can co-exist because they are actualy different.
All I hope is that the pandora will last long enough to have a wide User and Software-Base. 5-10 Years would be very nice. ^^

 

[SomeGuy99]

I didn't say bad. Just not as good as pandora in my book (mainly b/c of keyboard and analog sticks). I think the painful part for pandora was more because they didn't have the bank roll to get the project off the ground as fast as bigger companies could have, not because of being ambitious.

Bad is a relative term - it depends what you want out of a handheld. The Wiz has an OLED screen and a smaller, more pocketable size, and some may consider this better. Maybe some people don't like having a clamshell, or think the price of the Pandora makes it worse?

I can only go on various comments from the development team regarding the percieved ambition of the Pandora:

For example, MWeston said the multi-layer PCB design is more sophisticated than anything Sony, Nintendo or Apple are doing.

I also remember the team said that the mould was more complicated than anything the chinese factory were used to doing. It was complicated because of all those key, button and nub holes.

And the nubs... had to be custom designed right? And anyone who has tested the Pandora says the nubs are incredibly high quality. Apparently they're better quality that the nubs Sony use, and allegedly they're the only other company who even use slider nubs.

I guess building a custom design around the Omap3 chipset isn't ambitious anymore. But when the project started the only competitor was the Beagleboard, which is... just a bare circuit board right?

 

[Orion4874]

Thanks for the nice words, its appreciated. (but I want to keep this thread on topic)

I think this an important discussion that I hope would enable other wiz owners to decide to have the will to support themselves. (I want more the ol'GP2X days and less of the PSP entitlement)

Damn, now I feel guilty for asking you about zdoom, sorry.

Back on topic. The Wiz is definately going to take a hit in the developer dept when the Pandora is Shipped. But the scene won't die, at least not until GPH releases their next model and even then, are the GP32 or GP2X scenes dead? They've certainly slowed but they're still here. The Wiz has it's niche and I think there's going to be dev's around to support it for a while yet, Pandora or not.

 

[zRichi]

Woah how did we get onto thinking that I'm critisising him or any developers work. My point was, I didn't buy a wiz purely because I thought the pandora was coming out fairly soonish. I'm sure many people that got into the PSP homebrew scene then stumbled across the Wiz may have bought one. Being that the Wiz and Pandora have been so closely tied (I doubt you could find someone that's heard of one and not the other) I was just wondering whether the Wiz suffered a lot due to customers wanting a Wiz but deciding to wait for a Pandora.

I questioned whether the Wiz had been pushed to it's balls because dev's were more interested in the Pandora and not devving for the Wiz.

I don't really no an awful lot about the Wiz to be honest..As I said in my original post it was something I breezed over, thought about for 2 seconds and thought "Na i'm best off waiting."

MWeston seems to think the hardware is barely different from the GP2x...which would explain it's been pushed to the balls already.

 

[Pickle]

Thanks for the nice words, its appreciated. (but I want to keep this thread on topic)

I think this an important discussion that I hope would enable other wiz owners to decide to have the will to support themselves. (I want more the ol'GP2X days and less of the PSP entitlement)

Damn, now I feel guilty for asking you about zdoom, sorry.

Back on topic. The Wiz is definately going to take a hit in the developer dept when the Pandora is Shipped. But the scene won't die, at least not until GPH releases their next model and even then, are the GP32 or GP2X scenes dead? They've certainly slowed but they're still here. The Wiz has it's niche and I think there's going to be dev's around to support it for a while yet, Pandora or not.

No your missing my point ;-), im not having an issue with people asking questions. I have an issue with people whining when they dont get what they want. Theres a phrase "Have your cake and eat it too", which what I think some in the community have.
And actually your response is exactly what i was talking about. If you really want to see something happen, learn and do it yourself. Although you might need to start small and work towards that goal.

 

[zRichi]

Hahaha I'm learning PyGame to release some mad shooter for the pandora

So I am trying to chip in!

 

[cowai]

Stop kidding around. If it wasn't for the pandora then thousands would have bought the Wiz.

 

[crade]

Pickle, I think many of the non-coding users are just applying the consumer mentality to open source devices. There's nothing particularly wrong with this, in-fact I can think of the page Craig made to sell the GP2X as an example.

http://craig.gp2x.de/review/GP2XReview.html

Which is clearly marketing. The final link of the article is to buy a machine from Craig or ED. I don't have a problem with the article at all, but it does support the consumer mindset towards homebrew.

Another:

http://www.gp2x.co.uk/gp32review.html

For consumer-type people, the smartest thing to do is to wait and see - if enough interesting software comes out in a good functional state, then make your move and buy the device. What you can't expect is for homebrew developers to work to your demands. That's just the way it is. You took a risk when you bought the Wiz, and maybe it didn't pay off.

The same is true of the Pandora. The team have marketed it using software demonstrations to get people excited. How much people are gambling depends on their own point of view. To some people, anything less than Doom 3, Dreamcast and PSP emulation is a loss. To others, anything more than a terminal and basic Linux commands is a bonus. Expectations differ.

Praising or promoting existing work I think is fine in a volunteer environment.
Whining or complaining about the lack of work done is garbage imho, and will just drive developers away.
Hobbies aren't fun if people are harping on you demanding stuff like when you're at work

 

[SomeGuy99]

Isn't this like asking your favourite band to do a new album, and then they get up on stage, infront of all their fans and say 'Come on guys. Just learn the guitar! Make your own music!

I think less gamers are coders than music fans play the guitar. You can blame Nintendo if you like. Actually... Nintendo wanted to make the Nes a proper microcomputer with Basic. Blame 80's American youth?

 

[WizardStan]

Stop kidding around. If it wasn't for the pandora then thousands would have bought the Wiz.

You think over half the people that bought a Pandora would have settled with a Wiz if it were the only thing available?
Personally, if the Pandora weren't available, I may have gotten a Dingoo. The Wiz doesn't seem to offer enough extra to me to justify the price. Probably not even that, I'd just stick with my homebrew enabled PSP until something Pandora-like came out.

 

[crade]

Isn't this like asking your favourite band to do a new album, and then they get up on stage, infront of all their fans and say 'Come on guys. Just learn the guitar! Make your own music!

I think less gamers are coders than music fans play the guitar. You can blame Nintendo if you like. Actually... Nintendo wanted to make the Nes a proper microcomputer with Basic. Blame 80's American youth?

Maybe if your band puts out all their albums for free in their spare time and have to work full time so they can buy their equipment, they might get pissed off if people start complaining that they take too long between albums too.

Edit: especially if they get comments like: I like the fact that you guys make free albums, but I don't like your choice of music. Can you put out a free album that is more like Metalica?

 

[Orion4874]

Thanks for the nice words, its appreciated. (but I want to keep this thread on topic)

I think this an important discussion that I hope would enable other wiz owners to decide to have the will to support themselves. (I want more the ol'GP2X days and less of the PSP entitlement)

Damn, now I feel guilty for asking you about zdoom, sorry.

Back on topic. The Wiz is definately going to take a hit in the developer dept when the Pandora is Shipped. But the scene won't die, at least not until GPH releases their next model and even then, are the GP32 or GP2X scenes dead? They've certainly slowed but they're still here. The Wiz has it's niche and I think there's going to be dev's around to support it for a while yet, Pandora or not.

No your missing my point ;-), im not having an issue with people asking questions. I have an issue with people whining when they dont get what they want. Theres a phrase "Have your cake and eat it too", which what I think some in the community have.
And actually your response is exactly what i was talking about. If you really want to see something happen, learn and do it yourself. Although you might need to start small and work towards that goal.

Wait, wait, wait, you don't think I was trying to be a wise-ass do you? Not at all, I honestly felt bad after reading your post. Anywho, I think you're absolutely right about people wanting and demanding whatever and not giving any kind of thanks or respect when they get it. Precisely the reason I stopped following the PSP scene. It's funny you should mention it because I recently started reading up on Python. So expect my first release in, I dunno, 5 years or so with the amount of time I can manage to put into it. LOL!!! Really how do people learn this stuff on their own in any kind of reasonable timeframe? They must be single with only a part time job or something.

 

[SomeGuy99]

Maybe if your band puts out all their albums for free in their spare time and have to work full time so they can buy their equipment, they might get pissed off if people start complaining that they take too long between albums too.

Edit: especially if they get comments like: I like the fact that you guys make free albums, but I don't like your choice of music. Can you put out a free album that is more like Metalica?

Ah, but it's not free. Pickle actually owns part of your soul. This is all a trick so he can collect more souls than other homebrew developers. Talking of which... I once overheard Exophase say something like 'There can only be one'. Anyone know what that means?

I'm not exactly sure when the apocalypse is scheduled, but it should be fun.

 

[Pickle]

Isn't this like asking your favourite band to do a new album, and then they get up on stage, infront of all their fans and say 'Come on guys. Just learn the guitar! Make your own music!

I think less gamers are coders than music fans play the guitar. You can blame Nintendo if you like. Actually... Nintendo wanted to make the Nes a proper microcomputer with Basic. Blame 80's American youth?

Hey Hey Im the Pickle
Im always coding all day
People are always gripin
And on top of it I get no pay

Hey Hey Im the Pickle
I stopped coding to make this song
maybe it will make the wiz people happy
we dont have to wait for the pandora for too long

 

[SomeGuy99]

Really how do people learn this stuff on their own in any kind of reasonable timeframe? They must be single with only a part time job or something.

Ouch. I don't think you realise what you just did.

 

[crade]

Ah, but it's not free. Pickle actually owns part of your soul. This is all a trick so he can collect more souls than other homebrew developers. Talking of which... I once overheard Exophase say something like 'There can only be one'. Anyone know what that means?

I'm not exactly sure when the apocalypse is scheduled, but it should be fun.

Shh! You are going to ruin everything!

 

[Orion4874]

Really how do people learn this stuff on their own in any kind of reasonable timeframe? They must be single with only a part time job or something.

Ouch. I don't think you realise what you just did.

Don't get too offended. Please realize I'm only kidding, so put down the torches and pitchforks!!! :unsure: