Pandora In Education

[KRH]

Do you believe that the Pandora can be a valuable tool for education, Inside and outside the classroom. Kindergarten through Collage and afterworlds.
If so, would you believe it be more effective to give each student a Pandora rather than having computer labs?
Do you expect there be many ports of Free Software(Open-Source) that include things from study-tools to calculators?

 

[Drak]

Nothing is better for school than a windows based laptop, period.

 

[KRH]

Nothing is better for school than a windows based laptop, period.

Why?

 

[lulzfish]

tl;dr:
I don't think Pandoras need to be in every classroom, but they're similar to any other PC in that they can vastly improve learning. In university, yeah, a Pandora would kick ass. Too bad I'm graduating in fall and they've barely produced the first batch.

Do you believe that the Pandora can be a valuable tool for education, Inside and outside the classroom. Kindergarten through Collage and afterworlds.

Well, any personal computer can be a valuable tool for education. However, inside the classroom, teachers usually do the teaching, not computers, so I don't see a need for Pandoras in the classroom.
In college lectures, perhaps, to take notes or something.

If so, would you believe it be more effective to give each student a Pandora rather than having computer labs?

No. If Texas Instrument's graphing calculator monopoly has taught us anything, it's that mobile PCs in the classroom will be used for games whenever possible. Stationary desktops are cheaper, more flexible, and have less potential for distraction.

Do you expect there be many ports of Free Software(Open-Source) that include things from study-tools to calculators?

If such free software exists, then yes.
I suspect Speedcrunch can be ported to do most math.
I don't know of any FOSS CAS systems like the TI-89s have, but I suspect GNU Octave includes one. It probably also has graphing features.

If Octave isn't ported somehow, someone in the community could probably throw together a decent graphing calculator for the Pandora. I once intended to write one that worked in reverse-polish, but I put too much thought into it or perhaps too little thought, and it never got off the ground.

I don't know what study-tools would be. I guess you could do some kind of flashcards. I think there's already FOSS for that. If it's not in the Angstrom repos, someone would have to port it.

 

[TrashyMG]

Nothing is better for school than a windows based laptop, period.

I disagree, School children should be exposed to more than just the windows environment to school.. I work for a large semiconductor company, everything here runs a flavor of Unix like operating systems whether it's Linux, Solaris or AIX. Most new hires even with tech experience are blind sided by only seeing Windows.

I believe the best education should be to do around the world with Windows, Mac and Linux..

Ah who am I kidding, keep them with Windows.. It keeps my job security safe and sound.

 

[Shaun]

Nothing is better for school than a windows based laptop, period.

I disagree, School children should be exposed to more than just the windows environment to school.. I work for a large semiconductor company, everything here runs a flavor of Unix like operating systems whether it's Linux, Solaris or AIX. Most new hires even with tech experience are blind sided by only seeing Windows.

You're forgetting the fact that most computer users—kids in particular—don't even know what an operating system is. They just want to use the web browser, e-mail, word processor, so forth. Windows is fine for these things and much more. Sure, you might want to introduce kids to open source, etc. But keep in mind that only a handful of these kids will work in the computer industry. Most won't care. Same goes for people of any age. You're comparing the situation to your semiconductor workplace when these are kids who have probably barely touched a computer.

Don't get me wrong. I see your point. But I think it should only apply to those who take an interest in computing as a career. Microsoft is king. A lot of people hate that. But as far as what the end user wants goes, Microsoft delivers. Linux (or Unix for that matter) is great, and whilst it's hard to accept this, keep it where it rightfully belongs: the niche.

 

[lulzfish]

At first I thought Drak was joking, but now that Shaun has explained his point, I can't help but agree.

Children need an OS that can run Counter-Strike natively.
And if that means we have to pay for Windows licenses and restrict ourselves to x86 systems, then by god... we'll just have to do that.

Serious version:
I wonder how my life would be different if I'd seen even one Linux system before I was in college. The only Macs I even saw were shitty old PowerPC-era ones. Training children only on a specific set of commercial software seems like free advertising for whoever sells that software. Free advertising and free training. You don't even have to make a good GUI if your future customers are forced to learn your applications in school.

In retrospect, my high school's computer labs full of identical Windows systems are terrifying. Even in A+ class, possibly because of the shit teacher I had, we just passed around a pirated copy of Windows XP. Even in college, the only Linux system I have access to is an SSH server.

It needs to be an option SOMEWHERE.

 

[Tempel]

I'd like to point out that there are two different things being discussed here: learning about computers versus learning with computers. I feel that most people don't need to learn much about computers, since they just need software that works; in learning with computers, though, the computer is a tool for accomplishing other tasks, and I would argue that OS in such a case just needs to be able to run whatever software is used for learning.

Whatever, I don't have any real points, just make sure you know what you're arguing about.

Off topic:

I don't know of any FOSS CAS systems like the TI-89s have, but I suspect GNU Octave includes one. It probably also has graphing features.ngstrom repos, someone would have to port it.

There are many. My favourite is SymPy, a Python library for symbolic math (pure Python, so no porting required). For those who prefer a real user interface, SymPy forms the backend of SAGE, which I hear is kinda popular.

 

[WizardStan]

I wonder how my life would be different if I'd seen even one Linux system before I was in college.

One of my fellow students back in high school had dabbled with Linux and introduced our computing class to it. This would have been about 1995, so Windows hadn't really taken its strangle hold yet. I was genuinely interested, but it was difficult to find, couldn't run Doom (yes, that was an important thing for 14 year old me) and dual booting it with DOS just didn't seem to be as viable a solution as it is now. In short, 15 years ago, Linux was not advanced enough to be a viable alternative to educational computing.
Today, I believe it would be. Even 5, maybe almost 10 years ago would have been a good time to get things started. Sadly, Microsoft is pretty deeply embedded. You hear stories about teachers giving detention to students for distributing pirated software like Linux (because no one would be stupid enough to give something away for free, right?) and realize it is way beyond too late to change mindsets.
That, and a lot of times Microsoft makes sponsorships to schools in exchange for using Microsoft products. Linux can't compete with that.

 

[Tom`]

I'd like to point out that there are two different things being discussed here: learning about computers versus learning with computers. I feel that most people don't need to learn much about computers, since they just need software that works; in learning with computers, though, the computer is a tool for accomplishing other tasks, and I would argue that OS in such a case just needs to be able to run whatever software is used for learning.

I'm sure people will disagree with me here, but I think this is a fairly dangerous attitude, and will only become more so as time passes.

Certainly it's true that people don't need to learn about hardware architecture, compilers, process scheduling, or memory management. However, there are far, far too many people who treat a computer as a magic box that plays interactive movies. People are, for example, easily misled by the most rudimentary phishing scams, they click on blatantly misleading ads, and for the most part that could be prevented if the person just understood the difference between the browser chrome and the actual page, how domain names work, whatever. It's an enormous problem - for every unpreventable malware infection caused by an invisible exploit, there are innumerable users downloading executable files to get free emoticons. The vast majority could be prevented with a bit of education.

On top of this, there's the fact that if you focus on learning specific pieces of software (even F/OSS software) over learning to generalize knowledge and skills from one application to others, you'll get classes full of people that won't be able to cope with a few buttons getting moved around. Every day I work with people like this. I know people who refuse to move from IE6 because of this mentality. (It's been almost a year since I've seen them - I hope they've managed to switch by now, but I wouldn't be surprised if they hadn't.)

So yeah, learning with computers is great, but I think a certain amount of learning about computers, more than is currently favored, would be very worthwhile.

 

[grasshoppir]

I wonder how my life would be different if I'd seen even one Linux system before I was in college.

That, and a lot of times Microsoft makes sponsorships to schools in exchange for using Microsoft products. Linux can't compete with that.

Even if it can/could, it doesn't have to.

 

[rum runner]

i don't know i think it could be good for education that's why I'm getting one I'm hoping for maybe some sort of language soft ware or calculator. and i was about to argue that kids should have regular keyboards to learn and develop typing skills. but kids have so much exposure to computers to day out side the school i doubt its necessary.

 

[b1llygo4t]

im drunk at the bar, and i skipped all the replies so sorry if someone else already said something. a college in the us (forgot which one) has a student designed omap3 portable computer. it runs linux, mouse pad, like 5 buttons. it is designed to be a pocket learning tool. its got alot of stuff the pando has, but its ugly, no keyboard, and a much smaller community. they where asking for programmers to donate last i saw. came across it researching the pando

 

[b1llygo4t]

I wonder how my life would be different if I'd seen even one Linux system before I was in college.

That, and a lot of times Microsoft makes sponsorships to schools in exchange for using Microsoft products. Linux can't compete with that.

Even if it can/could, it doesn't have to.

the computer science class i took had instructional material for open office

 

[VRAndy]

I feel that most people don't need to learn much about computers,[...]

You're forgetting the fact that most computer users—kids in particular—don't even know what an operating system is. They just want to use the web browser, e-mail, word processor, so forth. Windows is fine for these things and much more. Sure, you might want to introduce kids to open source, etc. But keep in mind that only a handful of these kids will work in the computer industry. Most won't care. Same goes for people of any age. You're comparing the situation to your semiconductor workplace when these are kids who have probably barely touched a computer.

You could use this same (flawed) argument to argue against MOST education. Very few students will need to know the difference between a square root and a cube root, or the difference between DNA and RNA. Laboratory glassware, scientific calculators, compass and straight edge, will go unused by most students after high school. You certainly wouldn't tell a student "Don't worry about it, you probably won't be a scientist."

You don't wait until kids choose their college majors and/or career before you can start educating them. (How would they even decide?)

Sure, most people get a bit of education they don't need[sup]*[/sup], but that's a small "price" to pay to make sure that the would-be scientists, authors, or mathematicians get an early introduction to their craft.

I'm sure people will disagree with me here, but I think this is a fairly dangerous attitude, and will only become more so as time passes.

In the future, students will simply be taught how to work a cash-register, push a broom, and read at a second grade level. That's all "most people" absolutely need. They want to know more they can pay to go to some fancy college for elitist intellectuals.



* For example, I can't remember the last time I've needed to know what a "rhombus" was.

 

[VRAndy]

That said, I don't see any advantage to Pandora in the classrooms. Regardless of the software it's running, surely you'd want something with a full keyboard?

 

[cuetzpalin]

This is an old byzantine discussion.

So, I'm just going to answer your questions directly trying not to fall into personal dogmas.

Do you believe that the Pandora can be a valuable tool for education, Inside and outside the classroom?. Kindergarten through Collage and afterworlds.

Yes, it can be. However, bear in mind that a tool is nothing but a tool, and it's up to the user to really get any profit out of it, and also, no tool will fit everyone's tastes.

By itself, the Pandora and any gadget is nothing but a bunch of circuits, plastic, and inert materials.

If so, would you believe it be more effective to give each student a Pandora rather than having computer labs?

Tricky question. I don't see any way to come to an agreement here. How would you measure the effectiveness of a tool? The impact of any educational policy can only be measured completely after many years of applying the measure.

Some would think that the best computer lab scenario would include Windows, Macs and Linuxes so the students learn every OS; Some would say that schools should provide the most common computer devices to learn.

I'd say that the ideal method would be to teach OS-independent concepts. However by view is limited since I was born before computers were common: My way to conceptualize computers and how they work is very different from the way today children do it, for them there's no before-computers world. So my idea of this OS-independent computer concepts and principles probably differ a lot from the way new generations approach digital gadgets.

Finally, I don't think it is easy either to say "this tool is better than that", (see my answer to your first question).

Do you expect there be many ports of Free Software(Open-Source) that include things from study-tools to calculators?

I think, and I hope so... but how to tell for sure?
Porting a wide array of open source tools would obviously increase the potential market for the Pandora.

Time will tell...

 

[Mr B]

I wonder how my life would be different if I'd seen even one Linux system before I was in college.

One of my fellow students back in high school had dabbled with Linux and introduced our computing class to it. This would have been about 1995, so Windows hadn't really taken its strangle hold yet. I was genuinely interested, but it was difficult to find, couldn't run Doom (yes, that was an important thing for 14 year old me) and dual booting it with DOS just didn't seem to be as viable a solution as it is now. In short, 15 years ago, Linux was not advanced enough to be a viable alternative to educational computing.
Today, I believe it would be. Even 5, maybe almost 10 years ago would have been a good time to get things started. Sadly, Microsoft is pretty deeply embedded. You hear stories about teachers giving detention to students for distributing pirated software like Linux (because no one would be stupid enough to give something away for free, right?) and realize it is way beyond too late to change mindsets.
That, and a lot of times Microsoft makes sponsorships to schools in exchange for using Microsoft products. Linux can't compete with that.

Your average 14 year old has the exact same argument as you had. It cant run game X, and sticks to Windows. If it was a valid argument then, it's a valid argument now.
B!

 

[grahamr]

But I think it should only apply to those who take an interest in computing as a career.

I only seriously considered computing as a career in my early twenties, thank god my parents bought me a micro-computer when i was 8 years old. Otherwise i'd probably be on the dole. Programming is useful in a number of other careers, from financial analysts to astro physicists. By your logic you should not really bother to teach anything except how to read, write and add, unless they have specifically chosen that path as a career. The computing industry is vast, lots of peoople come out of university with a degree, and then go 'oh shit no jobs for my degree' *then* they decide they should maybe try to learn something about computers. Often its too late, which is why companies hire programmers in from india, despite the visa issues and bad retention.
Even in non-IT jobs, a good understanding of computers can help a great deal. You don't fire the guy who shows you how to work your computer.

Linux (or Unix for that matter) is great, and whilst it's hard to accept this, keep it where it rightfully belongs: the niche.

Unix was primarily a server operating system. It has been the dominant OS in that area for decades, Now the two worlds are colliding with windows gaining in the server world, and unix gaining in the desktop.
Recently a third area has appeared on the scene : embedded. Currently unix-based OS's are dominant, but windows is still just a small niche.

 

[Asiyura]

(…)
I only seriously considered computing as a career in my early twenties, thank god my parents bought me a micro-computer when i was 8 years old.
(…)
Even in non-IT jobs, a good understanding of computers can help a great deal. You don't fire the guy who shows you how to work your computer.
(…)

I've considered a developer career only on my mid-twenties, but always wanted to work in the world of computers. I'm really happy that my father was already a geek back in 1982 :lol:
And that when I was twelve, my school had computer classes, learned a bit of word processor, spreadsheet program and programming in BASIC.

Most of jobs have a fair amount of computers involved. The lack of knowledge in computers lead to large amount of time lost to resolve simple problems.
Can't remember how many time someone asked me to fix their laptop's wifi, just to find they had accidentally switched the wifi off.