Out Of The Box

[Poem58]

Hello everyone...as I am in the process of ordering a beautiful Pandora for my grubby little hands I wondered if someone could help me out with a couple of questions...I'm sure I'll have more but for now there are just 2-3 I really need to know and haven't found the answer for....

1. Angstrom I gather is a linux distro...so if that is the operating system then is most/any downloadable linux able to be run or does ALL software have to be ported?

2. The TV out cable...will this enable basically everything you see to display on TV or only certain coded games/emu's etc...in other words I get Panda and cable, load some video's and hook to TV..am I good to go?

Just curious as I ponder al the uses I may have...Also I had seen mentioned about the ability to record with built in mic or external...is there another accessory yet needed to do this externally?

The more I think of this little guy the more i come up with idea's to use it for...I just hope it will run downloaded software for Linux without need of porting (which I'm sure would really open the device to lots of great things)...but I fear that will not be the case...

I grew up a windows nerd and haven't programmed anything since Basic and the Apple IIc...lol
I'm hoping to be able to learn about linux and explore....thanks for your time in responding...

 

[gruso]

Hello.

1. There is an Angstrom repository, and we'll be able to install packages from there. But this won't be the ideal option, as packages and dependencies can go bad when you're using removable media. The best place to point you is this blog post:

CODE
http://openpandora.wordpress.com/2009/02/20/app-installation-explanation/


...have a good read, follow all the source links, and read through the comments paying particular attention to what Skeezix says.

There will be other distros available too, Gentoo initially and more later. Check here for Gentoo stuff:

CODE
http://openpandora.wordpress.com/?s=gentoo



2. My assumption is that the TV out will mirror whatever is on the Pandora screen. But now that you mention it, I've never really thought about whether it won't. Someone will jump in here.


3. There aren't any audio recording accessories yet. I believe the EXT port has audio in, but we haven't seen a cable for that yet either. I reckon a generic USB mic is the best solution here.

 

[Pleng]

2. My assumption is that the TV out will mirror whatever is on the Pandora screen. But now that you mention it, I've never really thought about whether it won't. Someone will jump in here.

I'm pretty sure that as a default the TV out will mirror what's on the Pandora's screen. I'm also fairly certain that it can be configured by software as a second display, with independent output.

 

[Vorporeal]

In terms of needing porting - it depends. Most of the software will be compiled for x86 and not ARM, meaning at the least, it will require recompilation to run on the Pandora. If it uses OpenGL, it will require porting to OpenGLES (or maybe it could run in nanoGL?). If it has any x86 specific code, it would also require porting to remove that/replace it with ARM specific code. Also, seeing as x86 is a very powerful architecture, many people don't do a good job optimizing their software. In a recompile for ARM, the program might end up running very slowly on the Pandora due to the inefficiency of the code. (There are also slight memory issues to consider, but with 256MB RAM, you shouldn't have to worry.)

 

[gp32rich]

Anyone seen TV-out working? On PAL, NTSC, etc.

 

[arrrgh]

Anyone seen TV-out working? On PAL, NTSC, etc.

I don't think the TV-out cables have been made yet.

 

[gruso]

One of the devs - either ED or MWeston - said they'd seen the s-video output, and it looked really good.

 

[sterling976]

2. My assumption is that the TV out will mirror whatever is on the Pandora screen. But now that you mention it, I've never really thought about whether it won't. Someone will jump in here.

I was under the impression that the s-video out was a completely separate video signal, and I'm pretty sure one of the devs (or at least someone with a dev board) mentioned that rendering 3d to TV-out would be problematic, at best, but I can't find the thread, so I may be mis-remembering that. This doesn't necessarily preclude mirroring the display to TV-out, but it would make it a lot more difficult. This thread goes into a little detail:

CODE
http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showtopic=46557&st=0&p=697598&#entry697598


I hope that actually links to the right thread. If it doesn't work try typing this into a google search:

site:gp32x.de tv-out separate

The fourth result down is the one I'm trying to link. These broken forums have become quite vexing.

 

[Poem58]

Thanks everyone...so the short answer is no then....if I go surfing for apps or games I'm going to end up with x86 software when I need ARM software...so basically...if someone way more skilled than I doesn't convert and/or optimize software then it won't be there...cause I don't think I'm gonna ever know how to convert something like that....

Thanks for those links Gruso, I've been lurking around for a couple of months reading, but was real fuzzy on a few things...your links will help...
as have all of you..thanks..

I'm glad I brought some questions to light about TV out...is it S-video? I don't even know anyone who has S-video inputs...not real big in the US...so I might not even be able to use tv out?

Kinda sad to not know about audio in...I saw the USB mic suggestion...but I was thinking more of a line in than microphone....

So as I order this thing I have to keep in consideration..I can only install what others have prepared for me...(not that that's a problem cause it looks like all real needs will be covered by some REALLY talented coders with massive generosity with time and effort)
I may not be able to use TV out..and may not be able to use Audio IN.....

before I sound down on it keep in mind...I was using a CF PSP to emu...no tv out,no audio in...not much really but it was cool for me...which makes Pandora a dream machine...but thats why we are all here right?
But seriously I need to figure out if I'm gonna have TV out or what we will be looking at in the future to have Audio in....2 basic features...no idea if, how, what I need....

 

[mcobit]

You can easily convert s-video to scart or coaxial.

 

[joseluisjazz]

There is gonna be a LOT of software ported/recompiled and also from the Angstrom or Debian armel repositories, ready to use.

TV-Output is gonna be S-Video and composite. I have a box at home that converts composite to VGA, so I'll be able to use it with a monitor too. And if your TV has SCART connector, you can create an easy adaptor too:
CODE
http://www.hardwarebook.info/S-Video_to_SCART



The EXT connector has Line-in available, among other things like two rs232c ports... To use it is only a matter of having the appropiate cable. You can always have the option of buying a USB soundcard or something liek that, if you want.

 

[Poem58]

True about the ext port, the problem is....when and how much will it cost me for a cable that lets me plug in an external audio source....but that is not really a problem...

The funny thing is you are mentioning things like Scart etc ( I had to google it to find out what it was)...We use the Composite and component inputs in the US ( and now HDMI) and it's rare for me to even come across HDMI or Component...but everyone has a composite (Yellow - Video Red & White - Audio)

In the ordering email I received, it just said TV out cable...So I began to wonder what those connectors were...I didn't want to send another email to sales as they are busy enough...so I thought I'd throw it out here first...it would seem maybe TV out is designed for UK tv's? Seems like there are plenty of details for this project but when it comes down to some rather simple things...no one is really sure....so I for one am asking...then we will all know...

If I buy the TV out cable...can I connect it to my Composite input TV or do I need all sorts of adapters and equipment....or what...

If I want to record a keyboard, or a radio broadcast or whatever...will I be using the EXT port (if so any planed adapter? Price? Est avail?) Will this be done with some other equipment via usb? Should I rip apart my Panda and have someone put in a jack connected to the wires that at that moment would have belonged to the onboard mic? (please say no to this)

I gotta think about future expenses..as..well the last couple of years have been a financial nightmare...and I shouldn't even think to buy this...but the geek in me says if life is gonna suck no matter which way it goes...just in case I end up living in a car someday...I might need the Panda for entertainment!

Hey, does anyone know what media player will for sure be on the device? I'd like to be able to see what formats of video will be supported and convert a movie to have ready for the big day!

Thanks again everyone for helping me....

 

[Kimundi]

The Ext-Connector has 14 Pins:

2 Stereo Audio Line In
2 Stereo Audio Line Out
2 Video (S-Video or Composite)
6 Serial Interfaces
1 Ground
1 Power (2.8V, for example to power a adapterchip)

The Audio Line In and Out are independend from the Speakers/Microphone, and the Tv-Out can either use 1 Pin for Composite Out or 2 Pins for S-Video out. And It can run at Pal/NTsc, so there should be no problems connecting it to any TV

 

[Pleng]

True about the ext port, the problem is....when and how much will it cost me for a cable that lets me plug in an external audio source....but that is not really a problem...

If I want to record a keyboard, or a radio broadcast or whatever...will I be using the EXT port (if so any planed adapter? Price? Est avail?) Will this be done with some other equipment via usb? Should I rip apart my Panda and have someone put in a jack connected to the wires that at that moment would have belonged to the onboard mic? (please say no to this)

I believe the tv-out cable features line in and line out connectors. I'd imagine they'll be on 3.5mm jacks due to save space (perhaps a dev could confirm this?) so you'd just need a standard 3.5mm to dual phono Y-cable.

Should be a couple of dollars from any good electronics store

QUOTE

The funny thing is you are mentioning things like Scart etc ( I had to google it to find out what it was)...We use the Composite and component inputs in the US ( and now HDMI) and it's rare for me to even come across HDMI or Component...but everyone has a composite (Yellow - Video Red & White - Audio)

If I buy the TV out cable...can I connect it to my Composite input TV or do I need all sorts of adapters and equipment....or what...



SCART is popular here in the UK but AFAIK it's virtually non-existent elswehere in the world. S-Video can be converted directly to composite with a small adapter.

QUOTE

Hey, does anyone know what media player will for sure be on the device? I'd like to be able to see what formats of video will be supported and convert a movie to have ready for the big day!

Thanks again everyone for helping me....



For legal reasons no media player will be distributed with the system. MPlayer will be available for download from day 1 or 2. VLC is another possibility. Pretty much all popular codecs should be covered.

 

[Balzac2m]

germany got scart too

 

[viridior]

Poem58,

Back to the execution of code. The previous discussion (if it is not completely clear now) is that the vast majority of programs that you are familiar with are x86/x64 compiled and will not work as-is on whichever Linux distribution you plan to use. You have the option for some of them to use the existing system and supplementing it with the software you want through a binary repository of arm-compiled software and/or compiling that software yourself. My understanding is that the Angstrom, Debian, Ubuntu binary repositories are fairly extensive and the Gentoo project is building a binary repo, but also has a stream-lined self-compile option (but it is a bit slow).

If you are not that familiar with Linux (generically speaking) and specifically X.org (graphics display service) then you should know that you can edit the /etc/X11/xorg.conf file (lots of documentation) and set up the video-out to mirror, extend (either left-of, right-of, top-of, or bottom-of) your touchscreen, or act as a completely separate monitor (in which you can have two independent desktops).

 

[chole]

For legal reasons no media player will be distributed with the system. MPlayer will be available for download from day 1 or 2. VLC is another possibility. Pretty much all popular codecs should be covered.

Interesting. I was under the impression that it would be legally okay to distribute media players so long as the nonfree codecs themselves aren't included with the distribution.

Anyway, just quickly pointing out my recollection that there are some codecs that are (or were at some point) win32 dll files which cannot be used in other architectures. I think Real Player and some QuickTime codecs were an example of this. I'm guessing that some of the codecs at "http://www.mplayerhq.hu/design7/info.html" listed as "using x86 DLL" or "using _____ libraries" might hit a similar wall.

Is there any really comprehensive listing somewhere regarding which codecs will work on non-x86 architectures and which won't?

 

[Pleng]

Interesting. I was under the impression that it would be legally okay to distribute media players so long as the nonfree codecs themselves aren't included with the distribution.

Yup. But all the decent players have a lot of nonfree codecs built int!


QUOTE

Anyway, just quickly pointing out my recollection that there are some codecs that are (or were at some point) win32 dll files which cannot be used in other architectures. I think Real Player and some QuickTime codecs were an example of this. I'm guessing that some of the codecs at "http://www.mplayerhq.hu/design7/info.html" listed as "using x86 DLL" or "using _____ libraries" might hit a similar wall.

Is there any really comprehensive listing somewhere regarding which codecs will work on non-x86 architectures and which won't?



Well there may be a few obscure codecs that you're unable to play. If you have a large amount of realmedia files then, despite getting your head looked at, you should probably convert them to make them more usable on any other device you may want.

You'll be fine with all the mainstream... avi, mpeg, mjpeg, divx, xvid... probably wmv....

Just search online for the MPlayer site. If MPlayer can play it, then you can play in on Pandora

 

[GuSec]

germany got scart too

Yes, it's extremely common here in Sweden too.

Well there may be a few obscure codecs that you're unable to play. If you have a large amount of realmedia files then, despite getting your head looked at, you should probably convert them to make them more usable on any other device you may want.

You'll be fine with all the mainstream... avi, mpeg, mjpeg, divx, xvid... probably wmv....

Just search online for the MPlayer site. If MPlayer can play it, then you can play in on Pandora

And of course not to forget, the matroska-container, .mkv.

You seem to be annoyed with the lack of information you've snapped up, Poet58, but have you really looked through the Pandora Information Index?
CODE
http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showtopic=44746

 

[Vorporeal]

One thing to keep in mind with running software is that there is a Debian ARM package repository with tens of thousands of pre-compiled packages that should run out-of-the-box on the Pandora. Most of the software that you would want to run would be available through there, and if not, someone nice on the forums would probably be willing to attempt to just recompile for Pandora and see if that quick fix works.