Our New Machine, Pandora

[Rivroner]

We need it

i.mx31 performance is like equal isn´t it? i.mx31 has like 532 mhz.

Haha...no it's not even remotely close. The i.MX31 is using the PowerVR MBX Lite which provides fill rates of 135 million pixels/sec and throughput of 1.7 million polygons/sec. Compare that to the numbers above :lol:
http://www.imgtec.com/PowerVR/products/Gra...ndex.asp?Page=4

Edit:Linky again


Thank you for the answer

What do you think about BlackFin BF533? Very good performance(better than imx31) and really cheap See my links in my previous post.

Thank you

 

[Exophase]

The OMAP3430 is a monster. ARM11 Cortex-A8D at 550MHz, PowerVR SGX 3D graphics accelerator , video and audio processors... I'm pretty sure it would be awesome but do we need that kind of power? It's so far above the i.MX31 and the MMSP2+ in performance that it's crazy.

ARM11 Cortex-A8D performance:
"The superscalar processor core is said to generate almost double the performance per MHz compared to previous generation versions, featuring deeper pipelines, higher frequency and dedicated Level 2 cache"

PowerVR SGX Performance:
Effective fillrate up to 4000Mpix/sec (PSP: 664Mpix/sec)
Polygon througput up to 100M polygons/sec (PSP 33M polygons/sec)
http://www.imgtec.com/powervr/products/gra...ndex.asp?Page=1

Edit: Link added



Where'd you get those numbers? The page you linked says:

"Performance
Maximum effective pixel fillrate performance from 200Mpix/sec to 1200Mpix/sec @ 200MHz with even higher Z and stencil fill rate and polygon throughput from 2Mpoly/sec to 13.5Mpoly/sec @ 200MHz. Performance depends on core and configuration selected."

We need it

i.mx31 performance is like equal isn´t it? i.mx31 has like 532 mhz.

Haha...no it's not even remotely close. The i.MX31 is using the PowerVR MBX Lite which provides fill rates of 135 million pixels/sec and throughput of 1.7 million polygons/sec. Compare that to the numbers above :lol:
http://www.imgtec.com/PowerVR/products/Gra...ndex.asp?Page=4

Edit:Linky again


Thank you for the answer

What do you think about BlackFin BF533? Very good performance(better than imx31) and really cheap See my links in my previous post.

Thank you


It's some unknown custom CPU that seems to require their commercial compiler. With them constantly referring to the performance of "out of the box C code" it makes me think what they're really comparing is the performance of their compiler with something like GCC, which produces very bad ARM code.

There's also no 3D engine or floating point, so I don't think the hardware is going to be that great for the same tasks.

Their compiler costs $3500, by the way.

 

[Eolair]

We need it

i.mx31 performance is like equal isn´t it? i.mx31 has like 532 mhz.

Haha...no it's not even remotely close. The i.MX31 is using the PowerVR MBX Lite which provides fill rates of 135 million pixels/sec and throughput of 1.7 million polygons/sec. Compare that to the numbers above :lol:
http://www.imgtec.com/PowerVR/products/Gra...ndex.asp?Page=4

Edit:Linky again


Thank you for the answer

What do you think about BlackFin BF533? Very good performance(better than imx31) and really cheap See my links in my previous post.

Thank you


At a glance it looks like a nice good value SoC. But it doesn't have a 3D accelerator (and no OpenGL support). Clearly not good for a gaming handheld. And it would probably best if we stick with an ARM processor (Linux & backward compatibility).

Where'd you get those numbers? The page you linked says:

"Performance
Maximum effective pixel fillrate performance from 200Mpix/sec to 1200Mpix/sec @ 200MHz with even higher Z and stencil fill rate and polygon throughput from 2Mpoly/sec to 13.5Mpoly/sec @ 200MHz. Performance depends on core and configuration selected."

That's strange. The numbers are completely different...
I got my numbers from the SGX factsheet: http://www.imgtec.com/Downloads/index.asp?...Pro%20Documents I simply assumed the numbers posted in the SGX web section would be the same. I have no idea why they aren't. It's strange because if you check factsheets for the MBX and MBX lite and compare them to the numbers posted in their web sections they match perfectly.

 

[MWeston]

That's strange. The numbers are completely different...
I got my numbers from the SGX factsheet: http://www.imgtec.com/Downloads/index.asp?...Pro%20Documents I simply assumed the numbers posted in the SGX web section would be the same. I have no idea why they aren't. It's strange because if you check factsheets for the MBX and MBX lite and compare them to the numbers posted in their web sections they match perfectly.


The website says 1200, but the pdf says 4000 (but you have to log in to see that one). It's quite a difference and I hope the pdf is more up to date.


By the way, CRAIGIX: if you get a chance to use the OMAP3430, JUMP ON IT! This chip will be cutting edge for years and will ensure the success of the device for some time!

 

[Eolair]

The website says 1200, but the pdf says 4000 (but you have to log in to see that one). It's quite a difference and I hope the pdf is more up to date.

´
I trust a fact sheet more than website content, even if they both are official. It's just the incredible numbers in the fact sheet that makes me uncertain. They're staggering if you compare them to anything else.

 

[atomicthumbs]

The OMAP3430 is a monster. ARM11 Cortex-A8D at 550MHz, PowerVR SGX 3D graphics accelerator , video and audio processors... I'm pretty sure it would be awesome but do we need that kind of power? It's so far above the i.MX31 and the MMSP2+ in performance that it's crazy.

ARM11 Cortex-A8D performance:
"The superscalar processor core is said to generate almost double the performance per MHz compared to previous generation versions, featuring deeper pipelines, higher frequency and dedicated Level 2 cache"

PowerVR SGX Performance:
Effective fillrate up to 4000Mpix/sec (PSP: 664Mpix/sec)
Polygon througput up to 100M polygons/sec (PSP 33M polygons/sec)
http://www.imgtec.com/powervr/products/gra...ndex.asp?Page=1

Edit: Link added


Did you just say one hundred million.

Did you just say more than three times more polygon-handling capability than the PSP.

 

[quadomatic]

Hey,

I'm new to this project, and it sounds really nice. Could someone give me an overview of what sort of hardware would be in this device, and how much it might cost?

I'm trying to decide whether or not I should buy the F-200 or if I should wait for this device.

 

[realyst]

Hey,

I'm new to this project, and it sounds really nice. Could someone give me an overview of what sort of hardware would be in this device, and how much it might cost?

I'm trying to decide whether or not I should buy the F-200 or if I should wait for this device.

You're probably outta luck on that one. As you can see, the decision isn't in stone what hardware to put and what all will be involved. I'm sure any quote given would be pure unsubstantiated speculation until Craigx and co lay down the law on the hardware/fab/distrib.

 

[icurafu]

PowerVR SGX comes in 9 different varients for mobile, UMPC and PC.

It could be any one of these. That's why you get a big difference in performance.

I imagine a SGX with a cortex A8 will use the SGX530. considering the naming numbers of the name of the OMAP3430, which is the only OMAP3 capable of filling the LCD Craigx has planned.

 

[Tobriand]

Another reason too go for the OMAP chip if you can: Exophase said he'd be excited about the hardware, and he never gets excited about hardware!

Idd, anyone know what the obvious difference between the 3430 and the 3420 is? The block diagrams are as far as I can tell identical...

 

[jadon]

The OMAP3430 is a monster. ARM11 Cortex-A8D at 550MHz, PowerVR SGX 3D graphics accelerator , video and audio processors... I'm pretty sure it would be awesome but do we need that kind of power? It's so far above the i.MX31 and the MMSP2+ in performance that it's crazy.

ARM11 Cortex-A8D performance:
"The superscalar processor core is said to generate almost double the performance per MHz compared to previous generation versions, featuring deeper pipelines, higher frequency and dedicated Level 2 cache"

PowerVR SGX Performance:
Effective fillrate up to 4000Mpix/sec (PSP: 664Mpix/sec)
Polygon througput up to 100M polygons/sec (PSP 33M polygons/sec)
http://www.imgtec.com/powervr/products/gra...ndex.asp?Page=1

Edit: Link added



Where'd you get those numbers? The page you linked says:

"Performance
Maximum effective pixel fillrate performance from 200Mpix/sec to 1200Mpix/sec @ 200MHz with even higher Z and stencil fill rate and polygon throughput from 2Mpoly/sec to 13.5Mpoly/sec @ 200MHz. Performance depends on core and configuration selected."



Strange, This is what I copied this from the PDF at this link.
QUOTE

Performance
Maximum effective pixel fillrate performance ranges
from 100Mpix/sec to 4000Mpix/sec @ 200MHz. Polygon
throughput ranges from 2Mpoly/sec to 100Mpoly/sec
@ 200MHz.



Where did you get the other quote?

Honestly I'm not enough of an expert yet on graphics to know which end of the spectrum is closer to the reality, nor am I in a position to blast it out on a public board. Once it is public and I understand the right answer, I'll be happy to share it.

Another reason too go for the OMAP chip if you can: Exophase said he'd be excited about the hardware, and he never gets excited about hardware!

Idd, anyone know what the obvious difference between the 3430 and the 3420 is? The block diagrams are as far as I can tell identical...

I'll point out one difference:
3420: VGA (640 x 480 pixels), 16M-color (24-bit definition) display support
3430: XGA (1024x768 pixels), 16M-color (24-bit definition) display support

QUOTE

The OMAP3420 is designed to meet the needs of the multimedia enabled handsets market, which includes VGA quality video camcorder and playback, up to 5-megapixel still image capture, music playback and 3D gaming.



vs.

QUOTE

With the advanced multimedia capabilities of the OMAP3430 a multi-standard DVD-quality camcorder can be added to a phone for the first time. ... The OMAP3430 can connect to images sensors up to 12 mega pixels in size with minimal shot-to-shot delay, enabling camera phones that are equivalent to or better than most digital still cameras on the market today.

 

[J201605]

Hey,

I'm new to this project, and it sounds really nice. Could someone give me an overview of what sort of hardware would be in this device, and how much it might cost?

I'm trying to decide whether or not I should buy the F-200 or if I should wait for this device.

The only cost info so far is that it should be "a little more than the gp2x... so hopefully under $300. It has a touchscreen and a dpad (or a dpad like thing) and a keyboard of some time (probably slide out) The screen is 800x480 and it will use sd cards and have built in usb host and have wifi, tv out will most likely not be a hassle like it is on the current gp2x. It will run some sort of linux and is open source. The most likely contenders for the soc are mmsp2+ and i.mx31.

edit:screen res

 

[icurafu]

Hey,

I'm new to this project, and it sounds really nice. Could someone give me an overview of what sort of hardware would be in this device, and how much it might cost?

I'm trying to decide whether or not I should buy the F-200 or if I should wait for this device.

The only cost info so far is that it should be "a little more than the gp2x... so hopefully under $300. It has a touchscreen and a dpad (or a dpad like thing) and a keyboard of some time (probably slide out) The screen is 840x480 and it will use sd cards and have built in usb host and have wifi, tv out will most likely not be a hassle like it is on the current gp2x. It will run some sort of linux and is open source. The most likely contenders for the soc are mmsp2+ and i.mx31.


That was for the MMSP2+ deisgn. It'll cost more if one of the alternative is chosen.

 

[Squidge]

I believe it's 800x480, not 840x480.

 

[Billy Lee]

Do we really need such a powerful device? We mainly want to play retro games so we don't need 100 million polygons for that. Also, homebrewers aren't really capable of making use of all that power as they seem to make things like Breakout clones etc. Only the really big companies have the resources to utilise that kind of power.

 

[Gaeryc]

Do we really need such a powerful device? We mainly want to play retro games so we don't need 100 million polygons for that. Also, homebrewers aren't really capable of making use of all that power as they seem to make things like Breakout clones etc. Only the really big companies have the resources to utilise that kind of power.

Playstation emulator, N64 emulator and of course Linux

 

[lubidog]

Do we really need such a powerful device? We mainly want to play retro games so we don't need 100 million polygons for that. Also, homebrewers aren't really capable of making use of all that power as they seem to make things like Breakout clones etc. Only the really big companies have the resources to utilise that kind of power.

Shut up!

 

[X-Code]

Do we really need such a powerful device? We mainly want to play retro games so we don't need 100 million polygons for that. Also, homebrewers aren't really capable of making use of all that power as they seem to make things like Breakout clones etc. Only the really big companies have the resources to utilise that kind of power.

I would agree with that, but if it doesn't increase the final price too much I would love to have that hardware to play around with... Homebrewers must not be underestimated, if they are given the tools and have the time they can code incredible things


* X-Code has drifted into dreamland and Project T.I.M. 3D

 

[P-J]

Hmmm.... lose one old customer and gain 3 news ones, or keep the old customer happy?

Hehe. Unfortunately that is how the market works I want a gaming device, not a PDA so I'll buy whichever one does that. The good thing is there is some competition so it's not all bad

 

[Billy Lee]

Do we really need such a powerful device? We mainly want to play retro games so we don't need 100 million polygons for that. Also, homebrewers aren't really capable of making use of all that power as they seem to make things like Breakout clones etc. Only the really big companies have the resources to utilise that kind of power.

I would agree with that, but if it doesn't increase the final price too much I would love to have that hardware to play around with... Homebrewers must not be underestimated, if they are given the tools and have the time they can code incredible things


* X-Code has drifted into dreamland and Project T.I.M. 3D


Well yes if it doesn't increase the price too much and doesn't drain the battery alot, I'm all for it. But I can't see that being the case. And let's face it, as talented as the homebrewers are, they simply don't have the time and resources to make a game to justify that power. It takes years for a team of professional game developers who do it for a living to make a commercial game. How can a one- or two-man team make anything even 10% as good in their limited spare time? What we will see are Asteroids clones featuring asteroids made up of 50,000 polygons and the same basic gameplay that you've seen on the GP32 asteroids games. No offence to the homebrewers on this scene but have you ever seen a GP2X homebrew game that compares to an average Megadrive game in terms of quality and quantity?

Anyway, I don't want to sound too negative. I'm really looking forward to this new machine. I'm just being realistic and I'd rather have a cheap price and long battery life than a machine with more power than the developers know what to do with.