Our New Machine, Pandora
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Dubya'
Member
Ayla said:
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icurafu
The Hallucinogenic Elf
Yes, in the current form. But not fast.
Just see the DC port for example.
Just see the DC port for example.
imec
Member
Meow Mix Theme SongAmit said:Been a while since I followed this project, so far its looking good.
Anyone know the estimated release date? and has any part of the design or hardware been revealed by the developers??
Looking forward to hearing a reply
Also, what I like to do is keep Craig's profile bookmarked, so I can know when he's distracted while I watch him through the window.
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Squidge
Certified Guru
Yonkaku said:
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atomicthumbs
I am the king of the collectors, with hospital bed
imec said:Meow Mix Theme SongAmit said:Been a while since I followed this project, so far its looking good.
Anyone know the estimated release date? and has any part of the design or hardware been revealed by the developers??
Looking forward to hearing a reply
Also, what I like to do is keep Craig's profile bookmarked, so I can know when he's distracted while I watch him through the window.
I keep both Craig's and MWeston's profiles bookmarked. ED doesn't seem to have too much to say lately, but maybe he's on gp2x.de.
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sam fisher
Well-Known Member
Everyone here loves a good mass debate. If you still don't see the hilarity yet then scream out the words "mass debate" at the top of your lungs...
StealthBagel
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Well seeing as I just ran Yabause on my current system, which has an AMD Athlon X2 at approx. 2.1 GHz and an 8600GT video card, with hardware acceleration enabled, I can give you some perspective...... simpler games (all 2D) ran at 60 FPS and tied up 1 CPU core to ~50% capacity; but a 3D game like Layer Section II crawled along at under 30 FPS, with frameskip enabled it was a choppy mess and didn't approach playable. It wasn't abhorrently slow but there's a lot of work to be done.Vince2501 said:
Naturally optimization needs to be done for better speed, so far impressive on the PC front, but it should be pretty plain to see it will run terribly slow on even a 1 GHz Cortex-A8. I could see 2D games running well 'out of the box' with a straight port, but a lot of work would have to be done for anything more..... the rational thing to do is to wait for the PC version to mature first. I wouldn't be too surprised if this mostly uses C, so ARM ASM for the most expensive parts (both SH-2s, the SCU, SH-1 (doesn't do very much) and the 68000 would all help... you might be able to put some tasks on the OMAP3430's 2nd core, but I don't know much about it, it's probably a DSP. You might be able to get the VFPU to run SCU code (it's basically a fixed point coprocessor that acts like an FPU in the Saturn. But it would take some real hands on work to tell what can work and what can't....)
It's certainly doable the question is, is someone going to invest the time, and are they going to want to port Yabause before it's even 'complete' as far as features and speed/compatibility go. So much will likely have to change, like dynarec CPU cores and custom code to run the OpenGL renderer on the OMAP3430's GPU.....
Time will tell. It'll run a hell of a lot better than Dreamcast emulation, I can say that much (DC will likely never even begin to approach double digit FPS.....)
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efegea
Active Member
Is the OMAP3430 dual core? But dual core as in AMD Athlon X2 or dual core as in GP2X's fake dual core?
mass debate about what?
about how we keep getting this side convo about american economy being worthless over in the UK...which I think is pointless but anyways...
or mass debate about great the new handheld is going to be.
Oh yea this leads me to another question. The keyboard is going to be virtual right?
I asked about this before because I wasn't sure whether the keyboard is going to be virtual or physical...
if there is an actual keyboard the handheld have a slider profile, flip profile, or swivel profile. Like in cell phones???
about how we keep getting this side convo about american economy being worthless over in the UK...which I think is pointless but anyways...
or mass debate about great the new handheld is going to be.
Oh yea this leads me to another question. The keyboard is going to be virtual right?
I asked about this before because I wasn't sure whether the keyboard is going to be virtual or physical...
if there is an actual keyboard the handheld have a slider profile, flip profile, or swivel profile. Like in cell phones???
StealthBagel
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My bad, it isn't. I remember statements by Craig it would have a dual core chipset, but I suppose that was prior to the OMAP3430 announcement and talks w/ TI. Most OMAP2 series chipsets had a programmable DSP alongside the main CPU, which led to my confusion on that matter.efegea said:
Gp2x's 2nd CPU isn't really 'fake', it's just a bad implementation for custom software like emulators and SMP aware apps.... most chipsets that implement more than 1 CPU follow ARM reference standard for doing so, hence problems with the 2nd core like in mmsp2 don't crop up....
QUOTE
Seriously... Yabause uses an interpreter for SH2, not a dynarec so no wonder it is slow. And i don't understand why you speak about SH1 since it is only used internally for CD (so no need to emulate it).
The way the Saturn is built depending on how the game program is written different hardware can be tasked to do different things... some apparently even use the 68000, normally meant for audio tasks, to assist in game logic, others do software graphics on one of the SH-2s, others use both VDPs in different ways, some do polygon transform math on the SCU, some use the CPUs to do it..... so not emulating the SH-1 could end up breaking some oddly coded software. But no reason you couldn't add a setting to any emulator to switch it off and if problems are encountered turn it back on...
For maximum accuracy the way the CDROM subsytem works shouldn't be sidestepped and replaced by something custom, if possible, mimicking how it works internally would be a better approach, but on a handheld you're always going to be looking at cutting corners... so the 'right' way of doing things will naturally take backseat to the 'fast' way.....
That's actually something I hope improves on the new handheld, not just "new stuff to emulate", but making existing systems emulated on gp2x less imperfect. There is room for audio reproduction quality of MD emulation to increase dramatically; e.g. listen to the MD emulators on gp2x and a good MD audio-only emulator (see winamp plugins) and you'll see a dramatic difference, and then some more difference compared to real hardware. Same for NES, and as DaveC pointed out PC-Engine a.k.a. Turbografx-16. Lots of room for improvement, sound is always the worst part of any emulator..... as for SNES the video is the real stumbling block, at least most SNES audio is PCM and hard to mess up, and the only generated FM is pretty awful and rarely used in quality games.
OK I just went off on quite a tangent..... but still I hope some dedicated developers will take such ideas to heart and show off what handheld emulation can really accomplish.
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Tobriand
Well-Known Member
As far as we know, the keyboard is physical. There have been comments by those in the know along the lines of "why do you need a virtual keyboard when you have a keyboard?", which sorta imply it won't be virtual.garzyboi said:
But there's no released designs to show how the keyboard is going to fit with the machine. So as for the profile, not a clue. Yet.
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Firefox
Member
If the GP2X was like a "super GBA", where you wrote your game code straight onto the metal, it would be quite a good arrangement.Stealth Bagel said:
As it is Linux's habit of chopping what looks like a linear block of memory to an application into little pieces and scattering them at random around physical memory makes it a pain in the arse to share data with the second ARM core (which has no idea where all the little pieces are located).
Also, the lack of cache control makes it hard to share data between the two cores without performance tanking. It'd be good if the first core could work on some data for a bit, flush its data cache to make sure it's all really written out to memory, then the second core could work on that data. But you can't do that, so on the GP2X data shared between the two cores has to go into the top uncached memory and neither core can use their data cache when accessing it. That's the worst possible situation performance-wise!
This is why I was pissed off when I found out that Gamepark had disabled the ability to boot off SD card. I could've just written "super GBA" style code written onto the metal and would've been able to wring much more performance out of the GP2X's hardware.
*But* the Craiginator has Linux running on one really powerful ARM core, so these problems disappear. Plus Squidge has said it'll boot from SD card, so the option to write straight onto the metal isn't cut off (though it probably won't be necessary).
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notaz
Certified Guru
Actually you can do that.Firefox said:
From the 920 you would need to mmap the upper memory, apply Squidge's mmu hack on it to make it cached, and then flush data using usermode call (swi #0x9f0002) when needed.
From the 940 you have full control of PU (protection unit) where you can set up regions, and do whatever cache ops you need.
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