Os Wars

[fishybawb]

Yeah just like Linux, but with industry support and lots of games and more software and drivers developed for it.

More software and drivers? I'll call bullshit on that I think. Sounds like the words of a "Vita(sic) fangirl" to me

 

[Orkie]

Yeah, my printer isn't supported under Vista at all. It works on pretty much all other mainstream operating systems released in the last decade.

 

[WarmFluffyUK]

Yeah just like Linux, but with industry support and lots of games and more software and drivers developed for it.

More software and drivers? I'll call bullshit on that I think. Sounds like the words of a "Vita(sic) fangirl" to me

Sorry, but in answer to that I am going to shout "Shenanigans!".

Actually, just throwing a spanner in the works of the Pro Linux folk. I noticed you missed out Games
As we all know, if you want to play most games at the mo you need XP, possibly Vista for future games, Oh not forgetting Windows 7 in 2 years time. And so on and so on......

 

[fishybawb]

Sorry, but in answer to that I am going to shout "Shenanigans!".

Actually, just throwing a spanner in the works of the Pro Linux folk. I noticed you missed out Games
As we all know, if you want to play most games at the mo you need XP, possibly Vista for future games, Oh not forgetting Windows 7 in 2 years time. And so on and so on......

The word shenanigans always reminds me of Super Troopers

Of course I missed out games, that's because that was the only part you got right. Well, that and "industry" support, by which I wasn't entirely sure what you meant.

Forking out all the cash for a Windows license just to play modern games (and that's assuming you don't need to upgrade your graphics card etc) is silly when current-gen consoles are so cheap, which makes that point a pretty weak reason to use Windows.

 

[WarmFluffyUK]

Sorry to burst your console games bubble, but the PC versions of games are 9 times out of 10 better than the console versions. Especially for FPS games, console controllers don't fit the bill. Give me a mouse and a keyboard any day, and the fact that consoles have fixed hardware you will always be limited to that until a completely new model comes out which gives you the usual backwards compatibility issues.

Industry standard means what the industry expects you to be experienced with.
I work in I.T. in a University, and we are expected to have the latest MS OS on our public workstations and teaching machines as that is what the students are expected to know when they apply for jobs in industry. If one day that expectation is Linux, that's what all Universities including ours will be using. Presently it's Windows Vista and Microsoft Office.

 

[fishybawb]

Sorry to burst your console games bubble, but the PC versions of games are 9 times out of 10 better than the console versions. Especially for FPS games, console controllers don't fit the bill. Give me a mouse and a keyboard any day, and the fact that consoles have fixed hardware you will always be limited to that until a completely new model comes out which gives you the usual backwards compatibility issues.

Industry standard means what the industry expects you to be experienced with.
I work in I.T. in a University, and we are expected to have the latest MS OS on our public workstations and teaching machines as that is what the students are expected to know when they apply for jobs in industry. If one day that expectation is Linux, that's what all Universities including ours will be using. Presently it's Windows Vista and Microsoft Office.

Sorry to burst your PC games bubble, but consoles are the future of gaming. What's the biggest game at the moment? GTA 4. Can you play it on a PC? Nope, not out yet Fixed hardware isn't a disadvantage, buying a whole new console works out cheaper than upgrading your PC to the latest and greatest most of the time! BTW, you can get an Xbox 360 keyboard and mouse.

So industry standard equates to market share, is that what you're saying? Yes, MS OSes have a bigger market share. Sorry, why's that a good reason to use an MS OS again? :lol: I have a job in the industry - guess what OS I use at work. Hint, not Windows.

 

[WarmFluffyUK]

I have a job in the industry - guess what OS I use at work. Hint, not Windows.

ZX Basic?

 

[fishybawb]

I have a job in the industry - guess what OS I use at work. Hint, not Windows.

ZX Basic?


ZX's BASIC interpreter != OS

 

[WarmFluffyUK]

I have a job in the industry - guess what OS I use at work. Hint, not Windows.

ZX Basic?


ZX's BASIC interpreter != OS

So what Operating System did the ZX Spectrum use then? Sinclair Basic I reckon, commonly known as ZX Basic

 

[fishybawb]

So what Operating System did the ZX Spectrum use then? Sinclair Basic I reckon, commonly known as ZX Basic

Well this link lists them as seperate entities (under ROM), but seeing as I never even owned one (first computer was a CPC-464), you could be right and I could just be talking out of my posterior as usual

 

[WarmFluffyUK]

You're probably right, I'm only pulling your leg

P.S.
If I must state what OS I actually hate, it will be Windows ME. MS's biggest failure if you don't count DOS 4.

 

[Dunny]

I have a job in the industry - guess what OS I use at work. Hint, not Windows.

ZX Basic?


ZX's BASIC interpreter != OS


Actually, there is an OS under development for x86 PCs which is based around the concepts found in the ZXSpectrum ROM. It currently runs on my 486 laptop (test machine), utilises a 640x480x8 screen and an enhanced BASIC to take advantages of stuff like higher res, hard drive etc that weren't around when the Speccy was king.

Ok, it's no Windows replacement, but it's fun to develop ;-)

Work goes slow, as I'm learning OS development as I go, but it is developing nicely.

D.

 

[WarmFluffyUK]

Wow Dunny, I would really like to hear more about that as it sounds like a fun project

 

[chad78]

Now before you point and shout "Vita Fangirl"

Too late.

QUOTE
I will say the following: Vista is a little flawed.


That made me giggle. "a little flawed". And I suppose Anarticia is a little chilly this time of year.

QUOTE
Oh another point, Vista is only going to be around for another year or two, the next Windows version (I think it's codename it Windows 7) will be out late 2009 or during 2010. I am looking forward to that as the kernel is based on MiniWin. If all goes as planned it will be a mega fast kernel that will make windows are very awesome OS indeed.


Yeah, right. Unless they Longhorn it until 2015 - and drop 90% of the features - like WinFS, for example. I wouldn't be surprised if "MiniWin" is one of those "unimportant features" they cut to release "on time" (meaning 4 years late).

 

[gp32rich]

Here's a Linux expert's view of Linux ... (look here for background on the guy who wrote the article)

While we're on the subject
One of the favorite arguments of the free software and open source community for the obvious superiority of such software over proprietary alternatives is the user's supposed ability to take control and modify inadequate software to suit their wishes. Expectedly, the argument has been often repeated in relation to OLPC.

I can't possibly be the only one seeing that the emperor has no clothes.

I started using Linux in '95, before most of today's Internet-using general public knew there existed an OS outside of Windows. It took a week to configure X to work with my graphics card, and I learned serious programming because I later needed to add support for a SCSI hard drive that wasn't recognized properly. (Not knowing that C and kernel hacking are supposed to be "hard", I kept at it for three months until I learned enough to write a patch that works.) I've been primarily a UNIX user since then, alternating between Debian, FreeBSD and later Ubuntu, and recently co-writing a best-selling Linux book.

About eight months ago, when I caught myself fighting yet another battle with suspend/resume on my Linux-running laptop, I got so furious that I went to the nearest Apple store and bought a MacBook. After 12 years of almost exclusive use of free software, I switched to Mac OS X. And you know, shitty power management and many other hassles aren't Linux's fault. The fault lies with needlessly secretive vendors not releasing documentation that would make it possible for Linux to play well with their hardware. But until the day comes when hardware vendors and free software developers find themselves holding hands and spontaneously bursting into one giant orgiastic Kumbaya, that's the world we live in. So in the meantime, I switched to OS X and find it to be an overwhelmingly more enjoyable computing experience. I still have my free software UNIX shell, my free software programming language, my free software ports system, my free software editor, and I run a bunch of free software Linux virtual machines. The vast, near-total majority of computer users aren't programmers. Of the programmers, a vast, near-total majority don't dare in the Land o' Kernel tread. As one of the people who actually can hack my kernel to suit, I find that I don't miss the ability in the least. There, I said it. Hang me for treason.

My theory is that technical people, especially when younger, get a particular thrill out of dicking around with their software. Much like case modders, these folks see it as a badge of honor that they spent countless hours compiling and configuring their software to oblivion. Hey, I was there too. And the older I get, the more I want things to work out of the box. Ubuntu is getting better at delivering that experience for novice users. Serious power users seem to find that OS X is unrivaled at it.

I used to think that there was something wrong with me for thinking this. Then I started looking at the mail headers on mailing lists where I hang out, curious about what other folks I respect were using. It looks like most of the luminaries in the security community, one of the most hardcore technical communities on the planet, use OS X.

And lest you think this is some kind of Apple-paid rant, I'll mention Mitch Bradley. Have you read the story of Mel, the "real" programmer? Mitch is that guy, in 2008. Firmware superhacker, author of the IEEE Open Firmware standard, wrote the firmware that Sun shipped on its machines for a good couple of decades, and in general one of the few people I've ever had the pleasure of working with whose technical competence so inordinately exceeds mine that I feel I wouldn't even know how to start catching up. Mitch's primary laptop runs Windows.
Short version: If you enjoy forcing stuff to work, choose linux; otherwise don't.

Me? I'm waiting for AROS to become mainstream on certified hardware

 

[nickspoon]

Yeah, and I bet if he'd tried to install OSX on his own (non-Apple) computer he would have run into the same (and probably far worse) issues. If you buy a computer with an OS which has been designed to support that computer's hardware, of course it's going to work without you having to configure the hardware. In the same way, if you buy a Dell or System76 computer with Ubuntu preinstalled, all the hardware will be supported out-of-the-box.

 

[chad78]

Short version: If you enjoy forcing stuff to work, choose linux; otherwise don't.

That's about the long and short of it! Great find of the quote.

 

[chad78]

Yeah, and I bet if he'd tried to install OSX on his own (non-Apple) computer he would have run into the same (and probably far worse) issues. If you buy a computer with an OS which has been designed to support that computer's hardware, of course it's going to work without you having to configure the hardware. In the same way, if you buy a Dell or System76 computer with Ubuntu preinstalled, all the hardware will be supported out-of-the-box.

That's not always the case - like I mentioned already in this thread - my friend bought an HP laptop with Vista pre-installed, and the built-in webcam did not work.

And, actually, no, he wouldn't run into the same problems running OS X on a non-Mac. They are a completely different set of problems - problems caused primarily by design. As in Apple designed Mac OS X to not work on other systems. But as OSX86 has proven, (along with other Hackintosh projects and Psystar recently grabbing headlines for), OS X *does* work on non-Macs. If Apple were to open OS X to be used on non-Macs legally and with the full support of Apple - then you wouldn't have problems at all running OS X on your Dell, HP, Gateway, or DIY computer.

I've bought a computer that was designed by a Linux company to run Linux. I did not change the OS from the one they had installed on it. The USB ports didn't work properly (when they were working at all), the WiFi gave me fits, it was sickeningly slow to work with any external device.... It sucked. I don't use it. I'd sell it, but I can't think of a way to market it so someone would actually want it.

Your argument about the OS having to be built for the machine ultimately falls apart, though, with Windows XP. XP was built to run on pretty much anything x86. Everything from UMPCs to Desktops, laptops to servers, tablets to HTPCs. It didn't take tweaking the kernal to get it to work. You just popped in the CD and there ya go. It can be done. Microsoft has done it. How did they fuck up Vista so bad, I don't know. But it is possible to get an OS to run on pretty much any device with a similar CPU without having to custom set the kernal for any of them.

 

[gp32rich]

The guy that wrote that article is Ivan Krstić.
He is acknowledged as a Linux Kernel expert.
He is acknowledged as a software expert.
He hangs out with software experts.

And even they can't be bothered dicking about with drivers and hacks to get a Linux system running

Let me repeat that ... A Linux Expert can't be bothered dicking about with linux (his words)

Personally I could care less what OS my computer runs as long as it does everything I want.

It's just an OS.
It's just a way of loading an app to do something you want.
And just like ice cream they come in lots of flavours.
Just because you like Mint Choc Chip doesn't mean I'm wrong for liking Rum&Raisin
It's your opinion, you're welcome to share it.
Just don't blindly expect me to agree.

 

[Nova]

Just because you like Mint Choc Chip doesn't mean I'm wrong for liking Rum&Raisin

YOU'RE WRONG, MINT CHOC CHIP IS CLEARLY SUPERIOR!!!11ONE


Also, I agree. I'm not too fussed by what OS I use, as long as it doesn't break down frequently.