Original Preorders.

_wb_

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ED makes less on the 1 Ghz Pandoras to resellers like Link than he would by selling on ebay - was one of the points.  
Yes, ED gives a bit of the profit to Link, but on the other hand, Link does repairs for his customers so ED doesn't have to do those, so that probably more or less compensates. I don't think eBay will be prepared to provide free RMA services for the Pandora ;) - eBay just takes their fees and you get nothing in return.

eBay is nice if you don't have an online shop yourself, so you have a trusted 3rd party that handles the payment and selling (and bidding process if you want that) for you. I don't see the point of using it if you already have an online shop - why add middle men if they cannot give you anything that you don't already have yourself?
 

vcoleiro1

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ED makes less on the 1 Ghz Pandoras to resellers like Link than he would by selling on ebay - was one of the points.  
Yes, ED gives a bit of the profit to Link, but on the other hand, Link does repairs for his customers so ED doesn't have to do those, so that probably more or less compensates. I don't think eBay will be prepared to provide free RMA services for the Pandora ;) - eBay just takes their fees and you get nothing in return.

eBay is nice if you don't have an online shop yourself, so you have a trusted 3rd party that handles the payment and selling (and bidding process if you want that) for you. I don't see the point of using it if you already have an online shop - why add middle men if they cannot give you anything that you don't already have yourself?
I already posted in detail why you would have an ebay listing.  ie to gain "Extra" sales.

Re-read my last post
 
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andmaz777

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For those that oppose EBay as a sales avenue then what else do they suggest as a viable alternative.


Additional sales are desperately required to clear the various pre order queues as soon as possible - as it stands at the moment it is looking like upto another 2 years and if existing sales drop off then that will increase significantly.


As time moves on then customers who now would buy a Pandora if they knew about may not 6 months down the line - somehow the word needs to go out with a virtually zero marketing budget.
 

TrashyMG

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Link or ED could become an Amazon.com affiliated store.. but that may have it's own positive and negatives.
 

thatgui

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I think your missing the points I was making including the sarcasm.

 ...
I think your totally missing the point I was making: eBay might generate some new sales, but is it worth spending resources (mainly time, and little money) on it? I say no - I would rather use some kind of reseller, like thinkgeek - which is already an attractive plattform for our target group.
 

vcoleiro1

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I think your missing the points I was making including the sarcasm. ...
I think your totally missing the point I was making: eBay might generate some new sales, but is it worth spending resources (mainly time, and little money) on it? I say no - I would rather use some kind of reseller, like thinkgeek - which is already an attractive plattform for our target group.
Thinkgeek and other sites should definitely be tried. But you do realise they will demand 10% or so right ? Ie over $60. eBay is the cheapest option in that regard .

I think the 5 minutes setting up an eBay listing can be afforded.
 
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thatgui

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Thinkgeek and other sites should definitely be tried. But you do realise they will demand 10% or so right ? Ie over $60. eBay is the cheapest option in that regard .

I think the 5 minutes setting up an eBay listing can be afforded.
Yikes! did not know that. When I'm talking about spending additional time, I'm getting at support n'stuff
 

klapse

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Yikes! did not know that. When I'm talking about spending additional time, I'm getting at support n'stuff
Support as in the support needed by additional customers? Let me get this right - you are saying it won't generate new sales, but will require additional support for .. whom, exactly?


"n'stuff"? Like.. What?


Watching you backpedaling into a cloud of nonsense is mildly amusing I guess, but you should give it up. If ebay weren't an effective place to move your product, it wouldn't be the leading online auction house. Thousands of sellers have ebay listings next to their own (sometimes cheaper) online shops. Yes, there is additional work involved but that has to do with additional order processing and bookkeeping overhead. All of that can be reflected in a higher selling price.
 

thatgui

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Yikes! did not know that. When I'm talking about spending additional time, I'm getting at support n'stuff
Support as in the support needed by additional customers? Let me get this right - you are saying it won't generate new sales, but will require additional support for .. whom, exactly?


"n'stuff"? Like.. What?


Watching you backpedaling into a cloud of nonsense is mildly amusing I guess, but you should give it up. If ebay weren't an effective place to move your product, it wouldn't be the leading online auction house. Thousands of sellers have ebay listings next to their own (sometimes cheaper) online shops. Yes, there is additional work involved but that has to do with additional order processing and bookkeeping overhead. All of that can be reflected in a higher selling price.
No, my point is that you will have to spent some money and a lot of time if you want to sell Pandoras on eBay. This will generate some sales, but I say it is not worth the effort as you have to take care of another shopsystem and all that comes with: keeping the auctions up to date, answers questions and if you do occasionally sell one you may have to give them support beiing either for the software or hardware (which in turn has to be managed through eBays own systems).

And the big thing here is that the thing Eds needs most is simply "time" - he already has not enough time to manage all the obligations he has now, so why should he desperately want new ones ?

I don't do backpedaling nor is their a cloud of "nonsense" - I'm adjusting my view on things if I hear facts that are new to me. What would be the proper reaction according to you - just ignore them ?

Why is it a certainty that selling the Pandora on eBay will generate new sales ? There is already one shop in Germany which does that, so far they haven't sold one. Also there is Link, which runs his own shop - why would he make the effort of running his own shop, if it such a safe bet to use ebay ?

I have problems understanding the connection between "ebay being a place to effectively move your product" and "eBay beeing the leading online auction house". They aren't necessarily "a place to effectivly move your product" they are simply the biggest player in the market with people trying to hop on the waggon in hope that they sell something.

I could also go on with that customers that we possibly attract with eBay auction aren't probably that well informed about the product they just bought producing even more work. Or that the success story of eBay only shows a lot of small shops that are succesfully selling things on eBay, while you can't see all the ones that failed. Or I could make the point that some banners ads maybe more worth spending money at, but that would all be another cloud of nonsense.

Btw. what were your arguments again (I mean except that mantra "if you sell it on ebay you will make money") ?
 
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_wb_

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Nothing stops you from selling Pandoras on eBay yourself, if you think it's going to be the magic wand that makes sales happen. You can just buy them from ED and let him send them directly to your customers.
 

klapse

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Nothing stops you from selling Pandoras on eBay yourself, if you think it's going to be the magic wand that makes sales happen. You can just buy them from ED and let him send them directly to your customers.
If you had read my posts more carefully, you would remember that I said we can't know apriori how well they would sell. I never said it would be a magic wand, so your comment is misdirected at me. I am not the one here who is pretending to know whether or not it would be worth the effort.


If I did think that it was, and if I could get them at cost as Ed does, I would certainly try selling them on Ebay.
 

vcoleiro1

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Don't understand the negative nancies here saying we shouldn't sell Pandora's anywhere. 

You either don't give a shit about the remaining pre-orderers that will be waiting another 1.5 years (going on current projections) or your just being negative for the sake of it.

At least throw up alternatives - if you honestly give a shit about helping out that is.

Pandora is an extremely hard sell at its prices, but that said it does sell in small numbers .  Will it sell on ebay, sure it will in small numbers.  What about Thinkgeek, again in very small numbers over time. Point is - it all adds up and has to be done to get out of this shit hole were in - again, whats the alternative?.

P.S  Remember, second hand Pandora's do currently sell on ebay for close to what ED sells them new - Food for thought.
 

thatgui

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It's not about beeing negative or not caring about clearing up the preoorder que. It is a about how to spend the limited resources at hand (and a little bit about me beeing a "mister-know-it-all").

If Ed would be sitting on a big pile of Pandoras and had nothing better to do than playing every JRPG there is, I would also chime in an say "lets try it, we can only win". But thats not the case here.

I suggest getting more active instead of passivly waiting:

Maybe Ed could buy some advertisment package for special forums / sites / blogs (as mentioned twice already).Or if thats too expensive go in the social direction: start a blog, try to help with the facebook page (if ED would want any help with it) try seeking out possible reviewers (with a certain audience), try to promote the Pandora in other forums/chats/whatnot, post videos on youtube, etc, etc.

These are all things that ED even does not necessarily have to spent time on.

Regarding your PS - what are you suggesting exactly ? Supporting your "selling through eBay" argument in general or are you trying to suggest to rather make auctions with a small figure to start with instead of selling them for a fixed price ?
 

vcoleiro1

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^ I'm suggesting that they sell via ebay for close to and sometimes exceeding what ED sells them new.  Do you know why?

Frankly spending 5 minutes to list on ebay,  not having to maintain a listing, spending near 0 time to answer the rare question that comes along are not compelling reasons to not list on ebay.   As for after sales support, whatever that is would be the equivalent to what he does now via existing sales. 

As for plugging the Pandora on other Forums, sure why not. If he has the cash to do so. That wont be cheap and I thought spending in this way was what you were against?

In the end , what I am saying is all major sales avenues and free marketing should be tried. We are in a huge hole, one or 2 things is not going to cut it.

Also, what did you mean by?:   

"If Ed would be sitting on a big pile of Pandora's and had nothing better to do than playing every JRPG there is, I would also chime in an say "lets try it, we can only win". But that's not the case here."

He has stock to sell if that's what you are referring to.
 
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thatgui

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^ I'm suggesting that they sell via ebay for close to and sometimes exceeding what ED sells them new.  Do you know why?

Frankly spending 5 minutes to list on ebay,  not having to maintain a listing, spending near 0 time to answer the rare question that comes along are not compelling reasons to not list on ebay.   As for after sales support, whatever that is would be the equivalent to what he does now via existing sales.  
 I doubt that the time to take care of an eBay shop is that minimal especially if you can't "channel" all the communication through systems you already use daily - especially for after sales support as this has to go through the proper channel so you you don't have to explain anything to eBay if something goes wrong and you have to state that everything went right on your side.

I'm looking at the openpandora.org ticketing system I help out with from time to time, ED has barely enough time to look through the cases he gets assigned to there and these are systems he has full control over (and with that also, the possiblity to bundle everything in one "hub" so he does not have to look in / work with several different places/systems).

Which brings me to my misleading formulation

Also, what did you mean by?:   

"If Ed would be sitting on a big pile of Pandora's and had nothing better to do than playing every JRPG there is, I would also chime in an say "lets try it, we can only win". But that's not the case here."
that was geared towards my "time is the problem" argument
As for plugging the Pandora on other Forums, sure why not. If he has the cash to do so. That wont be cheap and I thought spending in this way was what you were against?

In the end , what I am saying is all major sales avenues and free marketing should be tried. We are in a huge hole, one or 2 things is not going to cut it.
But isn't that more a problem of awareness than a problem of not enough places to buy one ?Putting them on eBay would create some additional awareness, but would that effort not better be targeted at places that have a possible broader audience ?

I have no real clue about how expensive banner ads are, thats why I trailed it with "Or if thats too expensive..".
 

vcoleiro1

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I think we are going around in circles now with the same questions and answers.  I'll leave it there
 

Link

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I agree with WB. Don't forget EBay buyers likely use PayPal, so another 3-4% gone. You then have more buyer's remorse and fraud/derelect activity on EBay than we get thru normal traffic. At least I can say that, not sure about ED.
 
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