OMAP4440 Dual Core

[Letalis Sonus]

Back when it all started, the OMAP 3530 was state of the art, a real monster. Kind of how you're rating the OMAP 4440 now.


Now let's say we start right off with an OMAP 4, we won't run into problems with the battery because of some new magic battery type, we're somehow able to fit the fattest OMAP 4 available into the box and we can recycle as much of the current design as possible. It might sound like it won't take as long as the first one, but don't underestimate the complexity, there will be additional delays. When first orders were taken the production was already kinda set in stone and "just" needed a green light.


About 2-3 years later someone else will come and make the same suggestion with an OMAP 5 or 6.


Again, take a look at the PandaBoard and compare it with the Pandora Board. Just by a look at the pictures you can tell what's needed to tame the new beast.


And to come back to one of your original questions: Think of what's needed to get a somewhat acceptable PS2 emulation on a PC. Do you still think it *might* be possible to do with an OMAP 4?


Some company with lots of money to pump into development can quickly shoot out such a device before the next SoC generation is on its way. Until we're done you'll surely see 2 new generations dominating the market.


Still, there's one positive thing: The Pandora board was designed from scratch (even though it looks very similar to the Beagle Board). The last time this discussion came up MWeston already capitulated after seeing a pic of the PandaBoard, but it already exists, so it could be used as a solid base for a new OMAP 4 Pandora. This could save quite a lot of time.

I AM NOT SAYING WE NEED A PANDORA REDESIGN NOW IM SAYING WHY IS EVERYONE FREAKING OUT WHEN ITS MENTIONED LIKE ITS BLASPHEMY.

When a certain topic comes up that often that people stopped counting, this is exactly the reaction one can expect (I'm surprised I haven't seen someone bringing up the Cortex-A15, yet). There were already enough speculations, this thread surely won't bring up something new. You become an unintentional troll

 

[second exodous]

Zadak the important thing is to take from all this is how some people are on this forum. You're new and people will forget. You live you learn. I have not read all the comments but there are some real jerks on this forum so just use this as a learning experience and realize you did nothing wrong but ask a question. I'm one that believes there is no such thing as a stupid question and you've obviously learned what certain questions can bring about on this forum. Don't let this thread steer you away form this community.

 

[WizardStan]

What I responded to:

ok, but now they are (right?).


So let us feel the power!

What you edited in later:

I AM NOT SAYING WE NEED A PANDORA REDESIGN NOW IM SAYING WHY IS EVERYONE FREAKING OUT WHEN ITS MENTIONED LIKE ITS BLASPHEMY.

Your first and second post did seem like you were suggesting that they should be focusing on a new model now to replace the one that hasn't even been finished. It is only the edit that says you don't expect a redesign. Even rereading your first post again, it still reads like you want OPT to drop the existing model and get right on creating something new. I'm sorry if that wasn't your intention, but that is the way it reads.

 

[Austin25]

Well, compared to my DS lite, with a messed up top screen and unresponsive shoulder buttons, the Pandora will still be... I can't even think of an adequate adjective.

 

[SNESFAN]

will the emulation fairy do a nintendo ds emulator with this dual core omap?


please leave jokes about how to arrange the screens/add another screen out of the responce


how about gamecube, ps2, and nintendo wii emulators?

 

[second exodous]

I know you're joking but why do so many people want a DS emulator? The screens aside you can still buy a new DS or DSi and use a, oh, forgot what they were called, a flash cart? and play every game perfectly. I don't understand why so many people want a DS emulator, lets wait like 10 years when it is difficult to find a DS or flash carts.

 

[Zadak]

Zadak the important thing is to take from all this is how some people are on this forum. You're new and people will forget. You live you learn. I have not read all the comments but there are some real jerks on this forum so just use this as a learning experience and realize you did nothing wrong but ask a question. I'm one that believes there is no such thing as a stupid question and you've obviously learned what certain questions can bring about on this forum. Don't let this thread steer you away form this community.

Thanks Exodous for being so cool, and no matter what people say to me I will never stop loving this system. So don't worry Im not going anywhere.

 

[SNESFAN]

I know you're joking but why do so many people want a DS emulator? The screens aside you can still buy a new DS or DSi and use a, oh, forgot what they were called, a flash cart? and play every game perfectly. I don't understand why so many people want a DS emulator, lets wait like 10 years when it is difficult to find a DS or flash carts.

huh?


why would you not want another emulator?


Are you saying why would I want it just because the current pandora model isn't capable of doing it? Or are you really curious as to why anyone would want another emulator when another device is able to do it just fine?


I want it so I can emulate every console I have ever owned in one device. I think that's the pretty obvious reason.


you seen the stupid pictures of people duct tapping like 3 consoles together and jokingly calling it a pandora alternative. I don't understand people's non-want of a nintendo ds emulator.

 

[Exophase]

I'm sure a DS emulator would be a hit on mobiles. Anyone who says they're not interested should realize that they don't necessarily represent the majority.


DS emulation is probably possible on a high end dual core Cortex-A9 (but it'd take someone to do the work and it's a lot of work) but I doubt you'll see much in the way of PS2 or Gamecube/Wii emulation.


All you guys saying that it'll take 2-3 years for a new Pandora to hit once a design is decided. So you think that the long delays on Pandora are normal and were expected? Did you think they would be in 2008 when OP assured us the Pandora would be out? People aren't chasing the latest tech futilely with this, it's time to take your heads out of the sand and realize that Pandora's tech has fallen behind. It's not cutting edge, it's not current, it's behind.


That's not to say that OMAP4 is really much of an option at the moment. OMAP4440 in particular will probably take at least a few months before it shows up in anything, and that's being optimistic. But it won't take 2-3 years. What's sadder to me is that OP would ultimately save money by migrating to DM3730, a better SoC that's close to compatible with OMAP3530.

 

[second exodous]

huh?

why would you not want another emulator?


Are you saying why would I want it just because the current pandora model isn't capable of doing it? Or are you really curious as to why anyone would want another emulator when another device is able to do it just fine?


I want it so I can emulate every console I have ever owned in one device. I think that's the pretty obvious reason.


you seen the stupid pictures of people duct tapping like 3 consoles together and jokingly calling it a pandora alternative. I don't understand people's non-want of a nintendo ds emulator.

Ok, you want one, I just don't is all and find it just pointless at this time. I can understand you wanting to emulate every system you own but you loose me on emulating a system with two screens on a system with one screen when the system being emulated is still readily available and has a way to put every game on one cart that is cheap to buy.


I'm sorry I brought it up. You're comment read to me as sarcastic so I thought you thought DS emulation was silly also.


EDIT: Oops, sorry, I read your last line as sarcastic, I guess you were serious on the DS part. My bad, sorry.

 

[Exophase]

GBA can be played on DS too. Doesn't stop people from wanting it on other devices. DS emulators are pretty popular on PCs, and those don't even have touchscreens. The lack of two screens is a non-issue for most people with most games, and has been discussed to death.


Don't know why "you can still buy one" is an argument against it, you can still buy pretty much anything on eBay and you can get flash carts for pretty much anything too. Emulators have a lot to offer that flash carts generally don't or can't, don't know why this is a mystery.

 

[second exodous]

If I see DS implemented on a handheld then I might use it. Even then my DSi has to break before I'd want to emulate it on anything else. That will happen but probably not for a while.


The layout change would be beyond button layout change. The touch screen is conveniently situated between the d-pad and the buttons, easy access for the thumbs. For me it would not be awkward to emulate because it would be difficult to get the feel of the DS. Since DSs and DSis are so easy to come by right now and are already portable there is not a huge need for DS emulation for me at least.


GBA and PSP I can see emulating right now, even though they are portable and still easy to come by but it is not awkward to control those games on something like the Pandora.


Do you see my point? For me at least it is silly as I have a DSi right now. When I don't have one anymore and DS emulation is done well on another handheld I'll change my tune.

 

[SNESFAN]

DS emulation is probably possible on a high end dual core Cortex-A9 (but it'd take someone to do the work and it's a lot of work) but I doubt you'll see much in the way of PS2 or Gamecube/Wii emulation.

thanks that's what I was looking for, if anyone would know around here, it would be you


so as far a emulation specifically is concerned, dual core next gen omap.... maybe full speed ps1/n64/dreamcast emulation then? (if optimizations of software on the current hardware don't grant us this first)


Then basically opening the doors to only the nintendo ds, as a chance... any other systems that I'm forgetting? psp emulation perhaps?


Although nice, I'm not exactly sure that alone would be worth it to me. Even though I've mentioned otherwise, with only one new console and the chance of topping off 3 others... not really sure it *would* be worth whatever they're wanting to charge for it.


"not worth it" might actually be pretty on point summary of this whole thing.

 

[Exophase]

If I see DS implemented on a handheld then I might use it. Even then my DSi has to break before I'd want to emulate it on anything else. That will happen but probably not for a while.


The layout change would be beyond button layout change. The touch screen is conveniently situated between the d-pad and the buttons, easy access for the thumbs. For me it would not be awkward to emulate because it would be difficult to get the feel of the DS. Since DSs and DSis are so easy to come by right now and are already portable there is not a huge need for DS emulation for me at least.


GBA and PSP I can see emulating right now, even though they are portable and still easy to come by but it is not awkward to control those games on something like the Pandora.


Do you see my point? For me at least it is silly as I have a DSi right now. When I don't have one anymore and DS emulation is done well on another handheld I'll change my tune.

Yes I do see your point, but you have to concede the fact that a lot of DS games don't heavily use the touchscreen, including some of the ones that are far and away the most popular on the system. A lot of these also don't use the second screen in a very critical role. You can certainly understand why these games would be worth emulating.


I understand and respect your personal disinterest in DS emulation, but I think you have to understand and respect that your one voice is awfully relevant to anyone's decision as to whether or not an emulator should be done. You already know a lot of people do want one, so you should just leave it at that.

 

[tsh]

Are there any devices that use the OMAP4 yet? I'm just curious not trolling. I thought it takes a few years before anyone uses cutting edge ARM chip.

I'm not sure about products using TI silicon, but I'm typing this from a folio100 which has Nvidias tegra2. It is in production, and has all manner of nasty bugs at the moment (shows that even Toshiba have the same promlems that OP have).


What happens to the Pandora's niche market in the next couple of years is an interesting question. How much can be gained by going dual core isn't obvious - more ram might be very nice though. I am less interested in the emulation aspects though, and like the high portability (which a 10" tablet misses, even if it does fit in some pockets!)

 

[hlidegp2x]

That's not to say that OMAP4 is really much of an option at the moment. OMAP4440 in particular will probably take at least a few months before it shows up in anything, and that's being optimistic. But it won't take 2-3 years. What's sadder to me is that OP would ultimately save money by migrating to DM3730, a better SoC that's close to compatible with OMAP3530.

heh? do you mean if there's a next generation of Pandora, OP would probably migrate on DM3730 instead of a OMAP4 ? if so, OP would really suck. The situation would be similar to customers who buy an old iPhone and are pissed off because now they need an iPhone 3GS or 4G to run all the hungry applications or games. I started regretting buying Pandora (Cortex-A8 being just a mono-core with minor bugs, all the stuff with SGX not optimized, what about the complicated TI DSP stuff ? etc.). OMAP4 is at least a dual-core (which is a minimal requirement for me and has a more refined NEON instructions set).


So, if a next generation should appear, it must be a complete different beast so it makes a sense to buy it even if we have the first generation to be sure the development on the first gen shall not be jeopardized by the second gen in a similar way it is for iPhone generations.

 

[WizardStan]

heh? do you mean if there's a next generation of Pandora, OP would probably migrate on DM3730 instead of a OMAP4 ?

I believe he's suggesting that right now, for future batches of the current Pandora, they could migrate to the DM3730 and save money. It's more or less the same as the existing OMAP3, I think; to the end user it would be an invisible switch, a kind of Pandora v1.5.

 

[Letalis Sonus]

All you guys saying that it'll take 2-3 years for a new Pandora to hit once a design is decided. So you think that the long delays on Pandora are normal and were expected?

Say, how long did it really take from starting to develop the Pandora until the first finished device got send out? It was way more than just 2 years. The big ordering day was not the start, and it's not where we would start when creating a OMAP 4 device. Now take a look at the OMAP 4, it is some serious high-tech chip which needs a really complex board. It will take much longer to design the board and due to its complexity it will need another company with more specialised machines. The Panda Board has 8 layers! It all adds significant delays even before we reach the same point where we were in October 2008. And from what we know now, once that point is reached it will take much longer than 2 months until we're ready to go, even without an angry Murphy.

 

[lulzfish]

An HDMI out will have me buy it early though. Can you imaging being able to hook it up to your computer monitor and peripherals and using it as a desktop computer?

I could imagine it better with, say, [Mini] DisplayPort and a VGA adapter. I don't have any HDMI equipment yet, but I have a pretty decent LCD with a VGA in.


HDMI probably also has a VGA adapter, but DisplayPort is "royalty-free" whereas HDMI "costs 4 cents per device and $10,000 per year for volume manufacturers" (Wikipedia HDMI article, comparison to DP)


Also, DP is a much funnier acronym.

 

[second exodous]

I believe he's suggesting that right now, for future batches of the current Pandora, they could migrate to the DM3730 and save money. It's more or less the same as the existing OMAP3, I think; to the end user it would be an invisible switch, a kind of Pandora v1.5.

Craig and ED have already said they won't update the CPU until the next Pandora comes out, it will fracture the community too much if some Pandoras have faster chips in them. Might as well wait a few years and then release the second Pandora, an all new machine instead of an incremental update.


But I also read his comment as using the DM3730 for the Pandora2 not just an incremental update for the current Pandora. I don't know how cutting edge the OP team has to be to make sales though as it is the only device that is open, has a keyboard. and has gaming controls.

I could imagine it better with, say, [Mini] DisplayPort and a VGA adapter. I don't have any HDMI equipment yet, but I have a pretty decent LCD with a VGA in.

HDMI probably also has a VGA adapter, but DisplayPort is "royalty-free" whereas HDMI "costs 4 cents per device and $10,000 per year for volume manufacturers" (Wikipedia HDMI article, comparison to DP)


Also, DP is a much funnier acronym.

I didn't know this and if it will cost that much and the OP team doesn't want to pay for it I say Displayport is ok. It will be one more adapter but monitors and HDTVs might start putting them in in a few years when the Pandora2 comes out.