Nintendo Wii


Exophase

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This is what nintendo is trying to change in the games industry. Make it more about the games as an experience rather than a contest about the highest number in the spec sheet. This, of course, is beneficial for them since they don't have the massive resources of sony and microsoft to make cutting edge hardware to be sold at a loss. Because a large portion of the current market was drawn in to the single vertical marketing (graphics), they had to broaden the market by making horizontal advancements in gameplay and market segments.

Nintendo most certainly does have the money to compete as a loss leader like Sony and Microsoft have. The reason Nintendo's strategy in the hardware market is different is because they're a first party game development house first and foremost. They design hardware that's the most useful for whatever software ideas they have and nothing else. By making weaker hardware they not only make more money on console sales but they also save a lot of money in developing their own games with less complex graphics.


I wouldn't call any of this trying to change the game industry, I don't think any of Nintendo's hardware innovations have been based on what third parties really want.
 

bzar

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It seems you are right about the money part. Things have indeed changed. My mistake. But I do think they are trying to take the fight out of the hardware pissing contest because as you say, they're a first party game development house. It would be natural for them to try to get the part they excel at into the limelight, instead of something most of the industry can do. Once you factor this in the weaker hardware seems like a logical choice to get some extra credits from the customers.


I didn't say anything about third parties.
 

I8NY

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i have a wii and i hardly play it for that past couple years now. the new lite wii just seems to stop the wii hacking community. if it doesn't get gamecube controllers or game support it is pointless since most of my games are gamecube. i'll stick with my hacked wii that i still don't use and don't pirate games for because it is so out dated.
 

Exophase

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I didn't say anything about third parties.

No, but IMO, when you address the gaming industry at large you should be thinking third parties. There's only one real first party and that would encompass more of a monopoly than an industry..
 

Blue Protoman

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Exophase has a point. All those obscure-ass systems, or even just Sega's? A major cause of failure was not having a lot of big third parties on board.
 

bzar

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No, but IMO, when you address the gaming industry at large you should be thinking third parties. There's only one real first party and that would encompass more of a monopoly than an industry..

Let me rephrase: "I didn't say Nintendo's hardware innovations have been based on what third parties really want"
 
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Exophase

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Let me rephrase: "I didn't say Nintendo's hardware innovations have been based on what third parties really want"

What you said is that Nintendo is trying to change the game industry and I don't know what you're trying to argue around here.. do you really think third parties are irrelevant to the game industry?? If Nintendo innovations only benefit Nintendo then they're not changing the game industry, no matter how well they sell, one company is not an industry.
 

bzar

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What you said is that Nintendo is trying to change the game industry and I don't know what you're trying to argue around here.. do you really think third parties are irrelevant to the game industry?? If Nintendo innovations only benefit Nintendo then they're not changing the game industry, no matter how well they sell, one company is not an industry.
I really don't want to get into this...


I do not think third parties are irrelevant. I think nintendo is changing the industry by creating a console not centered around more graphical power. This way instead of putting bigger and bigger slice of their development budget into staying on par with the platform's other games, third parties can concentrate on other stuff, like actually making good games. Also by broadening the consumer base on their console they are creating market segments that want different types of games from the traditional audiences. Again, this takes the graphics off the limelight and focuses on making games that the target audiences can enjoy. It's a change of philosophy, and they seem to be doing good at it. For themselves, at least.


If they only made what the majority of third parties want they'd probably hit the same thing Ford (IIRC) did. "If I asked people what they wated, they'd say a faster horse." If you ask a typical third party developer house what they'd want from a next-gen console, you'd probably hear "More power! More polygons! People love shiny!". Instead they didn't take the traditional route.


I'm arguing that currently nintendo has a different focus in their products from sony and microsoft. The latter two focus mostly on adding more power in their designs (HW wise, of course there are even more differences on the software side). Nintendo focuses on other things, like ease of control. Because of this it's in their best interest to try to shift focus away from what their competitors are focusing on. If nintendo's platform gets more users despite having inferior hardware compared to to the competition, it changes the industry whether third parties individually prefer this direction or not. Ultimately they are in the business to make money, and that means catering to the biggest user base. As an analogue, in my experience some small app makers are really not too happy about making stuff for apple's app store because of the tight (well, they were tighter before) rules. However a lot of paying customers were using apple's products so they had to just keep a stiff upper lip and comply to keep competitive.


I'm not saying third parties don't have power to make or break a console if they do so in majority. I'm not saying anything about which is the biggest currently or anything about how many games different market segments purchase on average or anything else that has anything to do with the current market situation. I'm saying nintendo is attempting to shift focus inside the industry away from the current arms race. Their motivations I can only guess of course, and I did earlier. Based on false information, which led to false conclusions.


Phew.


Non-important meta rant nobody should read:

What I meant by "I didn't say" was literal. I actually said nothing about those things. It's hard to follow a conversation when every time you open your mouth words are put in there, even if those are assumed to be your thoughts. Please ask me, don't assume. I actually didn't understand what you meant the first time talking about third parties, and was really baffled that you'd reference me writing something when I did no such thing except in your interpretation of what I did write.
 

Blue Protoman

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I still don't like not owning media that you pay for, unless you're paying to rent it.
 

Blue Protoman

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I don't mind downloading files IF I'm actually downloading them onto my own hard drive. My HDD space, my rules.
 

WizardStan

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I still don't like not owning media that you pay for, unless you're paying to rent it.
Technically that's all you're doing right now though, even with cartridges and disks and downloads. You may have some physical media, but most licenses say they're only a medium for letting you play the game, a license they could revoke if they wanted to (and it were actually in any way possible, which it generally is not). Always-online DRM and more specifically "the cloud" is just an enforcement of the rights you never really had to begin with. That doesn't make it right, of course, just that people should have been complaining decades ago when the license agreements first started getting this way, instead of going "well it's unenforceable, so doesn't bother me". Now the wheels are in motion and consumers are desperately trying to reign it in.
 
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