Log's including Pyra that may or may not look like Swastika and the ensuing discussion


(edit: to above. Phallic culture is particularly strong in the northern parts of Norway, we celebrate it as something to be proud of. An ancient tome to spring as a force of nature. If you see white stones erected they are, well you catch my drift. If someone around these parts calls you a horse-cock in a nice manner, you have a good friend. It is actually legal to reference a policeman as hestkuk, but that would be contempt for the law elsewhere, : ) Pretty sure it also is to do with who is saying it, as this does not at all translate well to other languages, or dialects of Norwegian. Maybe similar to how the icelandics are a more brutal and savage norwegians. Its all good fun though )

I dont presonally like guilt by assosiation, but especially when its the shaming of my culture.

Seeing things in a very shallow and one dimensional way is very ok. Leaving just as shallow comments is also fine. However giving credence to abstract notions by way of justifying ignorance is not ok. Its very skin-holy as we say. (accuse of what you are guilty of yourself) Hypocritical irony perhaps. Projective self loathing?

Different things have different precedence in different parts of the world, maybe even the same things, maybe we are all different when it comes down to it, i like to think of this as a good thing. The world isnt black and white, but it can be a scary place if all you see is one or the other, to stare oneself blind as the saying goes.

In sharing my culture its an offer of mutual respect. A horse-cock joke can have the best of intentions, similarly making yourself the butt of that joke is where the problem arises. Not to say there is such an elephant in the room, but if you are in a room where you think there is an elephant, that can be just as daunting, maybe even moreso. Maybe someone telling you there isnt just makes the problem you have worse. Maybe the mere mention of elephants is unsettling, but look, that isnt the context here, yet you are thinking of elephants. No, try not to? Any argument is just as elephant-valid, you are thinking elephant, right now. Big tusk. We see where this is going.

Presenting things in a context, may be out of context. Its all a slippery slope of saying this is that, but maybe it isnt. A perspective is where you chose to look, but maybe deeper meaning is more deeply rooted?

It isn't "the Germans" jumping on the norse branch of the world tree, this is the other way around, a Norseman branching out and sharing his culture.

If you create a problem, then you have a problem, I am ok with that, but saying others are to blame when they aren't is circular logic. It justifies
only the type of mindset it seems people are opposed to in doing so...

Saying ED cant use it because hes German is very much a way of thinking that is overshadowing the message im sending. We have a common history, a culture of dragons, mystery, knowledge.

Lets take a different approach. Widen your perspective to accommodate getting different ideas into your head. Even if wrong, its the mark of a great mind to be able to entertain a thought, without succumbing to it. As aristoteles said on one of his good days at work.

Many things probably were lost in translation here and there, and I'm probably insensitive
to some things meaning "i think" or raising whatever issues one can come up with in the best of interest.

Its ok to think any logo of mine is aggressive, it is not so ok to pass that off as implying its because ancient runes are aggressive. That is substantiating someting subjective, and in this case a projection of subjective truths to be not only valid, as a personal thing, but true, in a broader sense. The latter i think is wrong. Especially when its a rewriting of established precedence.

Objectively they aren't (i think), based on what runes represent by themselves. That point I feel more-so inclined to defend that point than my own work.

Precedence is also about initial meaning, original intent. Things are however, if you see it that way, what _you_ think of them as. "Das ding für mich" ^^

With that in mind, I am interested, what runes, if any is it people see? What is it people see, in general? I am very appreciative of such feedback.

TL;DR You are free to see what you want.
 
 
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Ok, one person has seen it without prompting. Give me a convincing argument that, despite the fact that it has happened once, no one else will ever see it like that again and we have no problem.
 How about the fact that it didn't even happen once? His mom saw the similarity:

the merged YR in the middle looks worryingly similar to a swastika. I didn't see it myself at first, but my mum just glanced at it on my tablet and pointed it out straight away, and now it is glaringly obvious to me.
 
If the question is raised then the answer is simply "no".
If the world were reasonable it would be.I've seen enough "there's a penis in that picture" bad publicity to know that it is not.
In the Little Mermaid Castle, you could separate the rest of the picture from it and it would look like a Penis, because the similarities were that striking. In the case of the "similarity to a Swastika", removing parts of the logo would only make it look like a Z tipped at an angle.

-God Ginrai
 
Can we please add a prominent penis shape, some titties, and an image of jesus eating a baby with crucifix-shaped chopsticks in the logo, to distract from all the swastikas?
 
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Saying ED cant use it because hes German is very much a way of thinking that is overshadowing the message im sending.
And it's racist (well, more like "nationalistic")  to judge ED for his nationality rather than his personality in any regard.

Precedence is also about initial meaning, original intent. Things are however, if you see it that way, what _you_ think of them as. "Das ding für mich" ^^

With that in mind, I am interested, what runes, if any is it people see? What is it people see, in general? I am very appreciative of such feedback.
Well, someone on the German boards saw something that in fact is in it, only mirrored.

Maybe you should indeed take care of this.

One Sigrune may not be that big of a problem, but two of them relate to the Schutzstaffel too much.

The Scout Snipers used this too, but I don't like them either one bit (although the drones that are used now are even worse):

Marine_scout_snipers_with_SS_flag.JPG


I'm so glad someone brought up the Disney's Little Mermaid analogy :D . Hear hear!
http://workthatmatters.blogspot.de/2011/02/little-mermaid-as-sexual-coming-of-age.html

http://whatculture.com/film/10-raunchy-moments-fiendishly-hidden-in-disney-cartoons.php
 
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Not only is it mirrored. Its In a logo variety that is made to exemplify in comparison to the bold version why the whitespace to contrast ratio is what it is, in the whitespace, at not the same rotation, at not the same angle, at not the same letter width, nor height, for all three letter elements, at not the same kerning, to a reference to the second world war.

Someone went there, I didn't.

Edit: if anyone had trouble making that rather willing comparison. here is the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutzstaffel version

I dont know much about the scout snipers, other than their flag looks like a poor excuse of stealing someone elses.

Im glad someone is looking at the whitespace though, keep looking.

Edit2: from a box like perspective, i could see a perfect ZZ, sometime after making the black and white version, couldnt think of any other reference than ZZ top, but it looks rather like the cross beam element of a wooden box.

I somehow get the boxen from crash bandicoot to mind when i see it that way.
 
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Yeah, I am sick of all this overinterpretation and searching for stuff like this too, just thought that the ss reference may be there for some more than the Swastika (which I still cannot see, even when trying).

They should ban everything that has a hint of a christian cross somewhere in it too, because way more people suffered and died because of this for many centuries, but that seems to be some hypocrisy a cannot quite get either.
 
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Gosh, how on Earth did a discussion on a design of a seemingly popular logo design, end up with a good chunk of it being a 'who can see the swastika'? And 'what other offensive things can we find in this logo?', all because of one post that a guy made about his mother's comment as she glanced at it?


edit: also, I'm with Klumpen on this. I can't actually see any swastika either..
 
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Gosh, how on Earth did a discussion on a design of a seemingly popular logo design, end up with a good chunk of it being a 'who can see the swastika'? And 'what other offensive things can we find in this logo?', all because of one post that a guy made about his mother's comment as she glanced at it?
Well, blame T4b. ;)

My fellow countrymen (not T4b, he is Swiss) tend to be quite paranoid in that regard, we were raised this way and as little kids were taught (verbally tortured if you ask me) in school to be ashamed for ourselves all the time because of the actions of our great grandfathers and grandfathers, but it was always expressed like we are the evil ones ourselves, had to visit MANY concentration camps which are some kind of guilt museums now and history lessons were so full of it, that we had not much time for other topics than "WW2", I had this topic in 4 years of history lessons and would have loved to learn something else! No wonder why everybody here thinks about that all . the . fucking . time.
 
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@comradekingu: I had the ZZ Top association and it's awesome. :D

I also like the pyramids in the white spaces, but nobody seems to notice them, because people are so eager to find some NS-symbols in it, because ED is a German. ><
 
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In the Little Mermaid Castle, you could separate the rest of the picture from it and it would look like a Penis, because the similarities were that striking.
And Disney's response was to say "yeah, kinda looks like a penis. We'll change it."Your response is "no, you're completely wrong and there's nothing there to even think about."

Which one is childish?

Different things have different precedence in different parts of the world, maybe even the same things, maybe we are all different when it comes down to it, i like to think of this as a good thing. The world isnt black and white, but it can be a scary place if all you see is one or the other, to stare oneself blind as the saying goes.
Yes, absolutely, which is why I keep saying that context is important. If you were designing a product and there was a vague swastika shape in the logo no one would bat an eye. They may think it's neat even, or maybe just a quick "oh ho, look what they did" and then move on.EvilDragon is German, the Pyra is going to be a German manufactured device. Like it or not the Nazis misappropriated the symbol, and thanks to "education" and mainstream media (at least in North America and the UK) reminding us every few years with another WW2 movie or video game, it doesn't seem like the connection is going to go away any time soon.

What would you have me do? Pretend there is no connection in a society that insists that there is? I don't have the power to force society to change.

And it's racist (well, more like "nationalistic")  to judge ED for his nationality rather than his personality in any regard.
Yes, that's kind of what I'm saying. Putting a logo which someone may see Nazi symbolism in is going to raise nationalistic questions and ED deserves better than that. The Pyra will come under scrutiny for all the wrong reasons. We can completely ignore the suggestion, pretend like the people who see it are insane and no one with any authority of any kind will question it, or we can prepare for it by either changing it slightly or at the very least just discussing it before coming to the conclusion that it's not worth worrying about. The discussion alone would have been prime ammo to counter anyone trying to raise a stink about it.
No wonder why everybody here thinks about that all . the . fucking . time.
I'm only half German so I only have to think of it half the time. And living in another country so I guess I half think about it only when it's mentioned. I'm a terrible German.
 
I totally see your point and maybe I would aggree if I were able to see a swastika in it, but I still do not without a bloody lot of distortion effort

which may cause seeing swastikas in every structure that is arranged around some point and therefore not worth taking into account in my humble opinion.
 
I totally see your point and maybe I would aggree if I were able to see a swastika in it, but I still do not without a bloody lot of distortion effort which may cause seeing swastikas in every structure that is arranged around some point and therefore not worth taking into account in my humble opinion.
And that would be an excellent point to be made in a discussion that we could very quickly have if someone didn't keep insisting that there's nothing there at all.Obviously if some people can see it then there is something to be seen. A quick discussion would have found it a very difficult thing to see, and brought out the origins from the creator of the logo himself (who is not German, another big point) and we could carry on our merry way, safe in the knowledge that if anyone does question it we can just direct them here where we talked about it. But no, I have to waste 3 pages just trying to prove the merits of a discussion before we can even have it.
 
It's not only difficult to see one, it's impossible. It's difficult to mistake it for one. Once you look again you see it's not what you first thought it was. AFAICT, no one has seen the shape in the image. They have mistaken parts of it to resemble it, which on closer inspection they actually do not. Don't confuse mistaking something for something else with seeing it.
 
I can only speak for me and I was not fond of this discussion from the very beginning, because it inspires people to see something in it that does neither exist nor belong there, therefore I admit wanting it to be cut off as soon as possible this time. It didn't work though.

I really like this logo, it has lots of good ideas in it which are executed in a nice way and that is a rare thing for me to say.
 
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It's not only difficult to see one, it's impossible
If it were impossible then no one would have seen it at all. Someone saw it without prompting, and others have said they can see it once it was pointed out, therefore it is not impossible.
Once you look again you see it's not what you first thought it was.
No, maybe once YOU look again YOU see it's not what YOU first thought it was, but your personal anecdote is not evidence of how other people will handle it. Completely ignoring the concerns of others is dangerous.
no one has seen the shape in the image
my mum just glanced at it on my tablet and pointed it out straight away, and now it is glaringly obvious to me
Once again, you cannot insist that it is not there when people are seeing it, in one case unprompted and in several others that it cannot be unseen once pointed out.
it inspires people to see something in it that does neither exist nor belong there,
The discussion wasn't doing that, people's imaginations was doing that, and it is something that may happen regardless of whether it was mentioned or not. I'd rather have had the discussion now among reasonable peers who can be easily convinced that it is just their imagination than risk the discussion that would come when we're swamped with idiots who don't understand history at all.
Be the change you want to see in the world, not the problem you are trying to combat.
Discuss the problem you want to combat, don't pretend it doesn't exist and hope it goes away.
 
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