Keyboard Suggestions

[quote]

well, whoever wants a slide out keyboard...... http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showtopic=39738

 

[Yuglooc]

Well on the bluwiki article the first thing it says is:

Pandora will be an extremely powerful handheld gaming system.

and that's been there AFAIK since the page was setup.

It's clear it's not JUST for gaming, but gaming shouldn't be sacrificed if the above statement was the goal of the project. I can see the Pandora trying to do too much and being stuck in between a games system and a PDA and not achieving either properly.

IMHO Craig and Co. need to make sure they're creating what they set out to create.

That's just an assumption that the end users made thou. I was here when craigix started talking about the machine and he never once said it would be a gaming device, what he did say is that he had a gadget he was developing (acually he did not even mention developing it, just that he would carry it) that would intrest us. I do believe that craigix, as any other salesmen, would want appeal to as many markets as possible and fairly, I don't see how this is crippled in either case. For those who think that it would be bad to hit the keyboard while playing games, do this. Disconnect the keyboard, grab a gaming controller, your gamepad just over the keyboard, now rest your palms on the keyboard and press the buttons on the pad. THAT, is the worst case senario, and frankly, I cant see that as even remotly discomforting.

 

[Gr.Viper]

One can do a lot of fine gaming entirely with keyboard. Old Sierra and Legend adventures, the whole Infocom legacy. That's hours of fun and just imagine how black Zork background and white letters will suit black Pandora. B) Of course, only if it comes with ultra-low-battery-use mode.
It'll also make a perfect Hitchhikers Guide to the galaxy with a "No panic!" label.

 

[Tobriand]

p&|a

Off Topic: This is GENIUS, and should definitely get artsied up and entered in a logo competition. Congrats, Yuglooc, you've managed to come up with a way to turn a console named after a woman into a geek-symbol name, thus satisfying all of those who were disappointed with it being given a name as oppoised to a string of symbols.

Although in my Logic class, they teach that ∨ is or, and | is nand, so possibly should be p&∨a or p^∨a. But logic is one of those areas where there are several different sets of symbols for the various operators, so maybe | is or in some circumstances.

 

[Peter R]

Logically | is usually the modulus operator however in most programming languages it is the bitwise or operator.

 

[b._.o._.b]

One can do a lot of fine gaming entirely with keyboard. Old Sierra and Legend adventures, the whole Infocom legacy. That's hours of fun and just imagine how black Zork background and white letters will suit black Pandora. B) Of course, only if it comes with ultra-low-battery-use mode.
It'll also make a perfect Hitchhikers Guide to the galaxy with a "No panic!" label.

hear hear!!

Also flightsimulators or chatting during online games. Dosbox games. There will be no limit for the creative developer, so we may see some very innovative homebrew or commercial games/programs.

On topic.
Ctrl + Alt key would be nice

 

[Mr B]

Well on the bluwiki article the first thing it says is:

Pandora will be an extremely powerful handheld gaming system.

and that's been there AFAIK since the page was setup.

It's clear it's not JUST for gaming, but gaming shouldn't be sacrificed if the above statement was the goal of the project. I can see the Pandora trying to do too much and being stuck in between a games system and a PDA and not achieving either properly.

IMHO Craig and Co. need to make sure they're creating what they set out to create.

That's just an assumption that the end users made thou.Um.. Lets see... This is a forum for handheld gaming consoles, i wonder why anyone would make the connection = "gaming device" here.

I was here when craigix started talking about the machine and he never once said it would be a gaming device,
Ok, just wanted to confirm, he actually did start to present it here, well knowing this is a gaming arena, where pretty much everyone will make the assumption he is talking about a gaming device. Unless I'm remembering wrong, he also made some comparative references to the GP2X (F-200) which is... Purely for gaming. I think you have pretty strong implications that he did promote it as a gaming device. Talk also mainly revolved around what you could emulate on it... and "what" is a reference to different gaming consoles. Don't think i saw anyone trying to figure out if it could emulate a x86 laptop, a palm pilot, or otherways...

For those who think that it would be bad to hit the keyboard while playing games, do this. Disconnect the keyboard, grab a gaming controller, your gamepad just over the keyboard, now rest your palms on the keyboard and press the buttons on the pad. THAT, is the worst case senario, and frankly, I cant see that as even remotly discomforting.
Lets see here.. Take a gaming device, and start going through the software to disable the incomplete keyboard, which doesn't really help emulate anything, since all the different things that used a keyboard had there own special keys, which aren't placed on the keyboard anyway. Ok, am i with you this far? If not, explain where i got lost, and once past that, go on to this... Once you rest your palms over the keys, your going to start put sweat and fat on them. as the device heats up, and your intense gaming get you winded up, your going to sweat more, and all this will go in to the keyboard. Real healthy for the keyboard. But its not over yet. depending on the type of buttons on the keyboard, they will have different reactions to being pressed down over extended periods of time as well. A great example is buttons on gamepads that stop working after the gamepad being stored for a few days, and you just know it was working great b4. Why is the X button the one that almost always dies first on the PSX gamepads? Same reason, the time its pressed kills it. Tv remotes? again same... It's easy to fix, but it voids warranty. you can get around that by using microswitches.. Suddenly the keyboard is as expensive as the rest of the unit, in assembly, and parts. (Yes, i exaggerate, but only a little)

Yeah, flight-sims, or games where you type a whole lot, will definitely be a huge hit on this thing.. A T9 dictionary, and writing on your telephone will be faster, since lets face it, your only going to be typing with your thumbs. Or... More likely, you'll give up due to it being acward(Spelling?), and put it on a table, and type with your index fingers. Not exactly helpful for a flight-sim on the train, or buss on the way to or from school/work, whatever.

Oh, and i ain't hateful, i want one, when it works.
B!

 

[Yuglooc]

Well on the bluwiki article the first thing it says is:

Pandora will be an extremely powerful handheld gaming system.

and that's been there AFAIK since the page was setup.

It's clear it's not JUST for gaming, but gaming shouldn't be sacrificed if the above statement was the goal of the project. I can see the Pandora trying to do too much and being stuck in between a games system and a PDA and not achieving either properly.

IMHO Craig and Co. need to make sure they're creating what they set out to create.

That's just an assumption that the end users made thou.Um.. Lets see... This is a forum for handheld gaming consoles, i wonder why anyone would make the connection = "gaming device" here.

I was here when craigix started talking about the machine and he never once said it would be a gaming device,
Ok, just wanted to confirm, he actually did start to present it here, well knowing this is a gaming arena, where pretty much everyone will make the assumption he is talking about a gaming device. Unless I'm remembering wrong, he also made some comparative references to the GP2X (F-200) which is... Purely for gaming. I think you have pretty strong implications that he did promote it as a gaming device. Talk also mainly revolved around what you could emulate on it... and "what" is a reference to different gaming consoles. Don't think i saw anyone trying to figure out if it could emulate a x86 laptop, a palm pilot, or otherways...

For those who think that it would be bad to hit the keyboard while playing games, do this. Disconnect the keyboard, grab a gaming controller, your gamepad just over the keyboard, now rest your palms on the keyboard and press the buttons on the pad. THAT, is the worst case senario, and frankly, I cant see that as even remotly discomforting.
Lets see here.. Take a gaming device, and start going through the software to disable the incomplete keyboard, which doesn't really help emulate anything, since all the different things that used a keyboard had there own special keys, which aren't placed on the keyboard anyway. Ok, am i with you this far? If not, explain where i got lost, and once past that, go on to this... Once you rest your palms over the keys, your going to start put sweat and fat on them. as the device heats up, and your intense gaming get you winded up, your going to sweat more, and all this will go in to the keyboard. Real healthy for the keyboard. But its not over yet. depending on the type of buttons on the keyboard, they will have different reactions to being pressed down over extended periods of time as well. A great example is buttons on gamepads that stop working after the gamepad being stored for a few days, and you just know it was working great b4. Why is the X button the one that almost always dies first on the PSX gamepads? Same reason, the time its pressed kills it. Tv remotes? again same... It's easy to fix, but it voids warranty. you can get around that by using microswitches.. Suddenly the keyboard is as expensive as the rest of the unit, in assembly, and parts. (Yes, i exaggerate, but only a little)

Yeah, flight-sims, or games where you type a whole lot, will definitely be a huge hit on this thing.. A T9 dictionary, and writing on your telephone will be faster, since lets face it, your only going to be typing with your thumbs. Or... More likely, you'll give up due to it being acward(Spelling?), and put it on a table, and type with your index fingers. Not exactly helpful for a flight-sim on the train, or buss on the way to or from school/work, whatever.

Oh, and i ain't hateful, i want one, when it works.
B!

Wow, I guess you could never use a computer then, at least not with a keyboard. Or acually play any games on it, because your grease sweaty hands kills it ;D

GP32X is a forum mainly about homebrew development on the Game Park and Game Park Holdings line of handhelds. May it be music software (oldsplay) or anything else. What we have sucessfully done as a community is to gather one of the most impressive group of homebrew developers the world ever seen, to discuss and try out new things. Now, one thing that attracts a lot of people are the emulators. I guess it's fair to say that emulators are the most common thing here on this forums. Craig would know that the developers would like a new console not crippled by a company in terms of speed, playability, or non-openness. So he announces it here, since the gp2x and gp32 became a large success due to this forums, and he is a mayor retailer for both, that would mean profit, and so he sees profit in a new gadget with that accommodates the developers needs. He thereby also get free commersial in terms of users who loved the software made for the GP-line, being able to get a new console, even more powerful, to have better software on. That's a win win.

Also, the GP2X-F200 is a Personal Media Player.

 

[pupnik]

The keyboard on openpandora.ca actually looks quite good for shell access to me.

Agree. If someone has a better keyboard layout, please post it. Use same amount of keys, same trapezoid form (so that thumbs have a resting place above kbd).

 

[Mr B]

Wow, I guess you could never use a computer then, at least not with a keyboard. Or acually play any games on it, because your grease sweaty hands kills it ;D
You quite obviously think your funny, but there is a difference, that apparently you aren't aware of. Tear the keys of your keyboard, and see if you can find out why ut takes quite a bit more then sweaty hands to kill a keyboard. And, i wont take any responsibility for you breaking your keyboard, all tho i doubt you will. I strip mine every couple of months and clean it, so it always looks like brand new... Well, aside from the worn of letters, but who cares, we know where the letters are anyway.

Also, the GP2X-F200 is a Personal Media Player.
Just checking here... What is the main usage for it, do you think? Hey, just asking. You pointed it out yourself earlier so i kinda had to comment on it. The entire forum crawls with emulate this or that talk. There is no doubt in my mind, that the main reason for purchase for 99% of the people on the forum, is gaming. So, i guess we agree to that. What we don't agree on is probably the usefulness of the current keyboard. To me, its just shy of useless, and any negative impact it has on my gaming, is a huge issue. In fact, to be even remotely useful for anything except naming save games, i need 3 more letters from the alphabet, and thats just to cover writing emails. Same goes for pretty much everyone not typing in English. With a onscreen keyboard, you could add / remove keys as needed, possibly add a field for text recognition, and for more advanced typing you need even more keys not really accessible as it is now. However, programing and other advanced typing would require a true keyboard, but the unit has USB, its not exactly hard to solve. Someone working with a couple of K text will need a bigger screen then the integrated one anyway, so your kinda stuck to a monitor anyway by then.

Anyway, this is turning out to be a dead issue. Craig, and others never will admit to it, but asking for designs, and giving out information of features that were wrong, was a mistake, and without that, there wouldn't been anywhere near as many upset voices. Not that everyone would instantly love the design, but a lot of people that like me got interested based on that info, would never have looked twice at the device, since it simply doesn't fill our needs. I'll be waiting a couple of months, most likely past the release date of this thing, and see if there is any mentioning of a second device with the issues i have with it being fixed, and if not, get the F-200 or comparable by then.
B!

 

[b._.o._.b]

What we don't agree on is probably the usefulness of the current keyboard. To me, its just shy of useless, and any negative impact it has on my gaming, is a huge issue. In fact, to be even remotely useful for anything except naming save games.

Most people really want a keyboard and think it is useful so are we all wrong? I think your idea of gaming is different and very console/psx fixated. You are saying again and again the keyboard is too small and not practical. I also think it is small but I think it is practical and because of the sliding keyboard problem the best solution is a clamshell design.

 

[prairiefire]

wow mr b, 26 posts in one day...you must be knackered! i understand you dont like the keyboard but you don't need to bring it up in every topic... you more than stated your point. let the designers note your feelings and get on with it. you kind of remind me of epicenter informative, yet relentless

 

[sephiroth111]

I want an eee pc and I don't want to carry my 2x along with it. Pandora is the answer, simple as that. Why does the keyboard bother you so much, it's not going to try and bite you if you want to play a game.

his mom was killed by one of those. B) (yes, that was a joke. don't bite my head off.)

 

[danboid]

I haven't gone to the length of making a mock-up Pandora but I've been wondering about the number keys - would it not make more sense to have them directly above (part of) the rest of the keyboard instead being separated from it by the joypads + fire buttons? Would the joypad be less comfortable if it was moved up a bit?

 

[prairiefire]

I haven't gone to the length of making a mock-up Pandora but I've been wondering about the number keys - would it not make more sense to have them directly above (part of) the rest of the keyboard instead being separated from it by the joypads + fire buttons? Would the joypad be less comfortable if it was moved up a bit?

I don't know for sure but my guess is that because the numbess take up the whole width of the unit, putting them below the gaming controls would get in the way of your thumbs

 

[MWeston]

Actually, it was about spacing. It seemed like the game controls were less comfortable jammed up at the top. Where they are now keeps a more standard distance between your thumbs on the front controls and your index finger on the shoulder buttons. This way is more comparable to the DS, PSP, PS2, etc...

The number buttons on the top also work great for weapons changing in FPS and any other re-mappable feature you can think of.

 

[quartercast]

Actually, it was about spacing. It seemed like the game controls were less comfortable jammed up at the top. Where they are now keeps a more standard distance between your thumbs on the front controls and your index finger on the shoulder buttons. This way is more comparable to the DS, PSP, PS2, etc...

The number buttons on the top also work great for weapons changing in FPS and any other re-mappable feature you can think of.

All I need to do now is de-volve and grow tiny little hands.

 

[ion]

Since the sliding keyboard is out, (Its patented, and yeah). The best alternative would be a swivel keyboard. Its very unlikely that you would be using the keyboard and the d-pad at the same time, therefore why gimp two things at once?

What there should be is two different "modes".


Game Mode:

Game Mode would have the D-PAD, AXBY buttoms, as well as start and select. Perhaps 3 or 4 extra or function keys.

Keyboard Mode:

Keyboard mode would have a full sized mini-keyboard.


Usage:
Perhaps the best way to do this is by default game mode is in and keyboard mode is at the bottom of the device with a cover of some sort, when you swivel the Keyboard in you take off the cover and put it on the game mode side and etc.

The flaw with this is that you would have to have recessed analog sticks and buttons that way the cover would actually fit, or simply a slightly bigger cover.

 

[nickspoon]

What we need, then, is a slide-in keyboard

 

[quartercast]

No, no, I don't want my keyboard to move AT ALL thank you very much! I can just imagine myself dropping the thing and the keyboard snapping off the rails. Plus grease, grime and dust will collect in there - no sliding please. Either have the keyboard detachable or leave it fixed, adding more moving parts to the Pandora is not a good idea. Capisce?