Keep Pandora A Pmp, Browser, And Game Handheld Only!

[trooper]

I`d like to be one of the first 100, If it is at all possible, I already have the money burning a hole through my debit card.

Trooper

 

[realyst]

1st 100 should go to all confirmed devvers (Squidge, Firefox, zottd, etc...).

As I only know Perl and real bad Java, I can(painfully) wait for mine to give the real geniuses a chance to muck around

 

[Tobriand]

I must say, I'd love to be in there from the first. But I can wait - I'm not a dev, and they should most definitely get priority!

 

[J201605]

I`d like to be one of the first 100, If it is at all possible, I already have the money burning a hole through my debit card.

Trooper

Those first 100 could have problems that will be fixed based on feedback before the real production gets going, why would you want one? Also i would bet that the first 100 will be given away to emulator devs like squidge/zodttd and to small development studios and not be orderable.

 

[Magnulus]

Feedback forms? In the mail? That's just plain silly. The Pandora team is designing the device around suggestions and feedback on this board. I'm sure any complaints, suggestions, praise and damnation that any and all users have will end up here. Even if a unit does find its way into the hands of an "outsider", I'm sure the a reference to gp32x.de will end up in the manual and they'll find us. We've already got a more direct channel to the manufactures than probably any other group of consumers, and the device isn't even out yet.

I didn't at any point say it should be by mail. A simple automatic e-mail service asking customers for feedback would suffice. Also, I stated that the members of this forum are but a tiny percentage of the full buyer base. I think feedback forms would be useful because they'd get a nice, tidy pile of quantifiable data, not three thousand forum posts arguing the same issue over and over again until finally Godwyn's Law is invoked... And then they repeat with a different issue.

I agree that we are in a very unique place here, but I also feel that Craig and the others should hear from a slightly broader group than this very specific group of people.

 

[telegramguy]

5000 units for the first batch release. Possibly another 20k+ units if everything works out by the end of 2008. I don't know what you'll do in 2009.

Wrong. On this very forum I have already posted the details of this and it's 100 then 3000 in the first batch. Just look back though my posts and you can read the launch plan in quite a bit of detail, I even posted how we plan to avoid 1st edition GP2X style problems.


I didn't read the launch plan. I'm only going off by your parts availability.

Back to the thread topic / original post, since you appear to be the only one to whom this IS their day job, I think you're under selling the device with the number of units. You've drummed up enough interest to easily sell that number. Why wouldn't you try for more? By the time you've reached your comfort level, a year would have gone by and real UMPCs would have gotten cheaper.

Are you really only targeting Europe?

 

[gaterooze]

Fat Agnus: you're offering to invest a few hundred grand for a bigger production run? How shrewd.

 

[craigix]

5000 units for the first batch release. Possibly another 20k+ units if everything works out by the end of 2008. I don't know what you'll do in 2009.

Wrong. On this very forum I have already posted the details of this and it's 100 then 3000 in the first batch. Just look back though my posts and you can read the launch plan in quite a bit of detail, I even posted how we plan to avoid 1st edition GP2X style problems.


I didn't read the launch plan. I'm only going off by your parts availability.

Back to the thread topic / original post, since you appear to be the only one to whom this IS their day job, I think you're under selling the device with the number of units. You've drummed up enough interest to easily sell that number. Why wouldn't you try for more? By the time you've reached your comfort level, a year would have gone by and real UMPCs would have gotten cheaper.

Are you really only targeting Europe?


No. Why don't you go and read my previous posts before just making wild guesses? We already have USA distributors lined up, actually check the thread called something like 'Pandora distributors'.

And you're wrong about the whole 'since you appear to be the only one to whom this IS their day job' too.

You can read up on the whole project on this very forum, and there will be a *massive* update to the openpandora homepage quite soon.

-Craig

 

[telegramguy]

No. Why don't you go and read my previous posts before just making wild guesses? We already have USA distributors lined up, actually check the thread called something like 'Pandora distributors'.

And you're wrong about the whole 'since you appear to be the only one to whom this IS their day job' too.

You can read up on the whole project on this very forum, and there will be a *massive* update to the openpandora homepage quite soon.

-Craig

Hey, I think we're getting off to the wrong start. Obviously this is part of your livelihood while this is only a side hobby for me. There's a lot of misunderstandings here. The thread's turned from a

"you can sell a ton more of these things than the amount of parts you're ordering" and
"don't sell this as a umpc"

into some sort of

"yes we are selling it in the USA, why on earth would you think otherwise" and
the "mob asking why someone would want less features" and
"there are SO people whose day job is to work on the Pandora"

kind of thread.

It's your project, your money, and your time. I'm just trying to rally you to sell this product to the folks in the US that do not visit gp32x or emulator sites on a regular basis. You've already got all the feedback you need (and then some) to market it to the gp32x crowd. I thought you would might be open in reading about the folks in the US that aren't like this group.

The comments about selling it to the US isn't about whether you had a US distributor. Because I don't see the gp2x marketed by gp2xstore to the US any differently than what I've seen in UK/EU publications and I don't agree a UMPC approach is the most effective campaign to do so.

Speaking / writing of which... who is working on it full time other than you if it's not MichaelW and Squidge?

Either way, looking forward to buying one of the 3000 and hearing about it in industry.

 

[MWeston]

I thought you would might be open in reading about the folks in the US that aren't like this group.

I'd listen to what you have to say. I don't see any problem with that. I think the negative impression received is that some of what you say can be interpreted as "I know better than you, so listen up!" Your recent replies suggest that is not the case so why not post your ideas here and we can all talk about it? You can PM me if you want me to read your suggestions since I live in North America but either is fine

 

[Squidge]

Yes, it really does sound like Fat Agnus was claiming he knows all about pandora and craigs purchasing decisions and distributors/etc, and then when craigix decides to challenge him, it comes out that he actually knows less than most of other people on this board (due to them actually reading craigs posts) and quickly back tracks.

Or at least, thats how it seems from the posts.

Maybe he just wants to ensure the Pandora is a success? Seems a strange way to do it however.

Also, is who is volunteering there services, and who is on craig's 'payroll' really the kind of information that craig should be giving out? I think not. Fat Agnus, all you need to know is that craig owns a company that is making this console. End of.

 

[telegramguy]

I thought you would might be open in reading about the folks in the US that aren't like this group.

I'd listen to what you have to say. I don't see any problem with that. I think the negative impression received is that some of what you say can be interpreted as "I know better than you, so listen up!" Your recent replies suggest that is not the case so why not post your ideas here and we can all talk about it? You can PM me if you want me to read your suggestions since I live in North America but either is fine


I think you're right. Instead of rallying like minded folks in the forum, I created a rubber band ball of a mob with the way I might have come off. So apologies to everyone that's gotten pissed off but are (for some reason) still reading this thread ...and geographically speaking, I think you're about as in the middle of North America as you can get. Have you ever seen the ocean? lol

Ok, on the topic of targeting the non-gp32x.de reading crowd in N.America... We need to target them differently than the gp2x has been targeted in the past (whether its by GPH or resellers). The retro gaming community is growing in the US. But it's growing differently than it is in the UK. Take RetroGaming magazine for example, it's on it's 50th or something monthly issue right now and it's UK based. Since it has no equivalent (IMO) publication in the US, you'd think you'd follow suit and focus on the UK/EU market. But look at the large number of retro gaming conventions and companies servicing (and making new) arcade components expressly to the gaming community. ..chk out arcadecontrols.com or search for "arcade" or "mame" in craigslist.com (it's a forsale type site and heavily encouraged to be localized here in n.america) and you'll see small businesses in small towns thriving off of retro gaming. It's not just in large metro areas.

For those of you that are familiar with the Atari ST and Commodore Amiga series of computers in the late 80's / early 90's... Both systems enjoyed a pretty good run in the mainstream and large groups of hobbyist / communities. But when you look back at the demographics and the sales drivers of the two continents you see entirely different sets of people. ...and the resellers and advertisers jumped on that distinction. You could say that each (demography and marketing) fed off of each other but the point was that the two markets were different but both successful.

While you had the gaming, hacking, and video crowds in pockets on both continents, you saw the Amiga used in the US more towards small budget video editing (yes, robocop and babylon5 were not small. and an alternative to PCs and Macs. You see evidence of this in the 3rd party vendors that developed for the Amiga. On the other side of the pond, you see a lot more vendors selling cool add-on accelerator kits, gaming bundles with core systems, and well... the games themselves.

Back to N.America... or rather unlike Europe or Asia, non-gp32x folks don't seem to like devices pitched to them as do-it-all type machines. Real UMPCs are having a hard enough time gaining traction, a device comparing itself to unsuccessful mini-PC's that isn't running Windows or one of the other handheld OS's aren't going to sell. This is why Apple was so hesitant in extending the functionality of the iPod since the 2nd and 3rd generation days. They could have moved a lot quicker (and some of he hw could already do it at the time) to incorporate applications and multimedia long before they did with video and touch ipods today. See how even Sony downplays extending the PSP. Even the skype announcement at CES 2008 last week was a relatively quiet event. US folks tend to gravitate towards devices that do fewer things but doing them really well more than multi-function gadgets. It's embarrassing but we seem to like it when someone tells us to buy XYZ to do 123. It confuses our little brains when XYZ can do 123, 456, and 789... and with a additional software package, even do 0's. We don't care if it doesn't cost more or is easy to invoke the extra features.

Even subtle changes in marketing material can have a huge impact on whether the reader continues reading. Take the whole "linux" label. It's so 90's to tell consumers that it's linux based. I'm not sure there's a single device that runs on electricity that someone hasn't managed to cram some linux kernal into it by now. The cool factor to those who care doesn't have much effect these days. ...and the hardcore linux geeks that still make buying decisions based on whether something's running on linux are a dwindling bunch. Unfortunately the negative connotations of "linux based" is still around. I don't know why it's unbalanced this way but it is. Ask someone that's techie enough to know what "linux based" means but not techie enough to install a distro on their computer and you're likely going to get a "wow, it's cool but must complicated" type of answer. ..well at least the equivalently low tech level crowd in IT circles will assume (correctly) that "linux based" at least means "more reliable".

Anyway..... I'd like to hear more from ppl in this forum about their experiences with their non-gp32x social circles / crowds and how we can get the word out to them.

 

[telegramguy]

Yes, it really does sound like Fat Agnus was claiming he knows all about pandora and craigs purchasing decisions and distributors/etc, and then when craigix decides to challenge him, it comes out that he actually knows less than most of other people on this board (due to them actually reading craigs posts) and quickly back tracks.

Or at least, thats how it seems from the posts.

Maybe he just wants to ensure the Pandora is a success? Seems a strange way to do it however.

Also, is who is volunteering there services, and who is on craig's 'payroll' really the kind of information that craig should be giving out? I think not. Fat Agnus, all you need to know is that craig owns a company that is making this console. End of.

I've re-read this thread and I think you're right. It did come off that way but that wasn't my intention. Yes, I definitely don't read as much of this forum as much as I'd like to. You're also right about what type of information Craig publishes. That's why I was so surprised that he would share with the public such a low production number (which some might take as discouraging (and even lower than what I expected)) but not share the list of rock stars that he's got working on it.

Again, that's his discretion, (I can hear Craig say "damn right it is"). I'm just writing that I'm surprised since if I were doing it, I wouldn't share production numbers but would drop the names of just about any person or company that's got some hand in it. Especially since (if) the list would be so popular in these forums.

 

[Squidge]

I suspect what Craig is thinking is things that you don't notice until the machine is built. The kind of things that would say "It turned out nice but, but if just this one thing was changed...".

No doubt he doesn't want a "Yes, it would be nice, but its too late to change anything now, we have thousands on a ship being delivered to us" (or whatever).

Hopefully, it means that a very polished system is created, as there's time for tweaking.

 

[Magnulus]

Personally, when speaking of the marketing, I would look at what made the Eee PC so successful. I know, I know, it's not really the same machine, but they share a lot of the same functionality and style, apart from the fact that you have a bonus in the size, price and gaming aspect. The Eee is marketed quite simply as "Nice and Easy". It's marketed as an easy-to-use machine for web-browsing, learning and business that is also affordable and highly portable. If it were ME, I would market it as an easy-to-use Wi-Fi enabled machine that let you do all you needed while on the go, and then an extra focus on gaming rather than business.

However, I also believe that it needs different strategies for different venues. Like, if you advertise in a Linux mag, it would probably need to be completely opposite of the more broad "simple and easy" approach.

Just my two pence.

 

[Yrx]

The difference is the EEE is marketed as a laptop, lol. You can't really market it the same way at all. People would want a cheap laptop to check their email, use video chat, whatever. And teh people that bought it for gaming probably ignored the "cheap and easy" line anyways, lol.

 

[gaterooze]

Fat Agnus, your generalizations are running rampant.

btw what attracts me is not emulation, that is perfectly fine on many other devices. Being an open source "UMPC" designed for games players, in a tidy clamshell that fits in your pocket -- that's the selling point for me. Yes, and that it can do everything.

 

[Magnulus]

The difference is the EEE is marketed as a laptop, lol. You can't really market it the same way at all. People would want a cheap laptop to check their email, use video chat, whatever. And teh people that bought it for gaming probably ignored the "cheap and easy" line anyways, lol.

omfglolzors!!

...

Yeah, I know. I said that I know they different. However, the Pandora can do MOST of what the Eee can do, no? It's CHEAPER, no? It's SMALLER, no? It has the same screen resolution, no? All right, so it can't do video chat without a camera added to it, and it doesn't have a miniscule internal hard drive. I would still say that it could easily appeal to a lot of the same people that would buy an Eee (at least ONE person, namely myself) AND that it could easily appeal to people who would want a cheap UMPC which was great for games.

 

[telegramguy]

...
also affordable and highly portable. If it were ME, I would market it as an easy-to-use Wi-Fi enabled machine that let you do all you needed while on the go, and then an extra focus on gaming rather than business.

However, I also believe that it needs different strategies for different venues. Like, if you advertise in a Linux mag, it would probably need to be completely opposite of the more broad "simple and easy" approach.

Just my two pence.

If you had a paypal account, I would email you a dollar for writing what I think in way fewer words.

Fat Agnus, your generalizations are running rampant.

btw what attracts me is not emulation, that is perfectly fine on many other devices. Being an open source "UMPC" designed for games players, in a tidy clamshell that fits in your pocket -- that's the selling point for me. Yes, and that it can do everything.

What I'm writing about is selling it to folks not on gp32x. Selling it to you and me isn't the challenge. Hell, I bet most everyone that's posted in the Pandora General Talk forum that can afford one will buy one in 2008. Followed by a large number of the remaining users on gp32x.de.

 

[MWeston]

I agree with what you are saying Fat Angus. People who visit this forum have a pretty good idea of what to expect, but the mass market won't. There will definitely need to be information that makes it very clear how easy the system will be to use and even though the system runs on 'Linux', using the device can be as easy or as difficult as you want it to be. The GP2X seems to be a good example of what not to do when launching a Linux based hand held, but it has definitely improved over the years.

There are topics about the "one-click" install system Craig is working on and I think this is proof that we want this system to be very user friendly. We can take a page from Nokia in regards to their tablets. They run on Linux, but for the casual user, they don't even have to care about that. For people who like to get involved and write their own code, they can download an SDK and go nuts!

I think the system looks like it does in order to keep it open to more markets and the advertisement will have to be tailored to each market. We definitely took the gaming controls into heavy consideration to make sure that it is very functional and a major focus for Pandora but I also love that fact that it can be so much more!