Is It Time Yet?

[Trip]

I know that this has been proposed many times before, but nothing ever seems to come of it.
I'm talking about setting some basic standards/guidelines for developers to follow, which will make it easier for users to use the programs that they create.
I ask this question again today because of the news on this thread here!
It will be an absolute nightmare when testing all these new programs, if all these developers were to set their buttons up differently.

Surely it shouldn't be too hard todo & it would go a long way to making the system more user friendly.

Examples:
L+R+start = quit program
L+R+select = quit to programs main menu
L+R+volume down = save to save state
L+R+volume up = load from save state

I know that it will be more complicated for such things as the Amiga/ST emulators etc., but it would go a long way to making new homebrew programs less complicated.

Anyway bring on the feedback/flames.. Cheers

 

[Alex.]

Every homebrew game uses the controls differently, because they're not made with a cookie cutter. As long as they're intuitive such as

Volup/Voldown - adjust sound volume
Start - begin, pause, resume game
L+R or Select - quit, exit

everything is fine in my book.

- Alex

 

[jimmyslam]

I know that this has been proposed many times before, but nothing ever seems to come of it.
I'm talking about setting some basic standards/guidelines for developers to follow, which will make it easier for users to use the programs that they create.
I ask this question again today because of the news on this thread here!. .

It will be an absolute nightmare when testing all these new programs, if all these developers were to set their buttons up differently.

Surely it shouldn't be too hard todo & it would go a long way to making the system more user friendly.

Examples:
L+R+start = quit program
L+R+select = quit to programs main menu
L+R+volume down = save to save state
L+R+volume up = load from save state

I know that it will be more complicated for such things as the Amiga/ST emulators etc., but it would go a long way to making new homebrew programs less complicated.

Anyway bring on the feedback/flames.. Cheers

HI , we have been talking about this in www.gp32spain.com : thread here.

Maybe we can talk about this there. I mean we (all) need to agree with something, cause is a nightmare using diferent emulators with different combinations to go to the menu...

Well, I have to do stuff now (the boss is looking at me D), cheers mates!

 

[DBH]

I agree with the points put forward. It only makes sense this will help make things more accessible to all, unlike having hold down right shoulder button press start, hold B then press A then left shoulder button and volume up and down at the same time to exit. (well not to that extreme but you get the idea )

 

[X-Code]

Controls should be fully configurable by the user, it would save all these problems in the first place ...

 

[kevcal]

true - but a standard layout would be nice - I demo the gp2x often at work to people and vainly hit certain key combos that do nothing on one emulator and shuts down another... doesn't look good I'm afraid.

Of course many devs' attitudes I would think (I know mine is for software I do at work) are that they code the things and so they decide which keys do what - each prob thinks their method is intuitive - - which I guess is fair enough.

Who is prominent and admired enough in the scene to decide the default?

 

[Trip]

Controls should be fully configurable by the user, it would save all these problems in the first place ...

The trouble with that though, is that it could get quite confusing when there are added options for the programs main menu, emulators bios setting etc. Kind of like when you buy a new joystick for the PC & then have to spend an entire day writing down the different control settings for all the different programs before entering them into the joysticks software.
I agree that all the normal user buttons should be selectable, but the more advanced one's would save a lot of hassle if they were static.

@jimmyslam - Cheers for the link Jimmy. It should be something that is decided between all the different sites.. definetly. Unfortunatly I don't understand Spanish, but I'll check out the forum using a translation engine to hopefully get some new ideas & to share my own with you guy's.
The 2x's community seems to be really fragmented at the moment due to the location/language barrier. Maybe we can find a way to improve that too

Who is prominent and admired enough in the scene to decide the default?

Who say's it has to be just one person kevcal?
Maybe a wiki entry or something can be set up & a couple of people from each of the 2x's communities from different countries can all get their heads together for a solution. It would be nice if GPH were to get involved with something like this too

 

[PSyMastR]

I haven't had problems with any of the programs before...

 

[PokeParadox]

I do tend to remember the different combos of buttons for the different programs, but I do think a standard is a good idea.

Letting the user map their own buttons is also a good idea. but as previously mentioned, maybe some system specific things like VOL+ and VOL- for volume and Start for pause, should be left alone.

 

[jimmyslam]

I haven't had problems with any of the programs before...

well i did, squidge snes and gnuboy for example. or that one of the NES too i think.

I would like that the perfect way to do this is like dr MD, for me, is perfect. Pressing select, u go to a very detailed menu and you do what ever you want. press B to advance , X to cancel. With that I would be happy.

What do you think people?

 

[Trip]

Pressing select, u go to a very detailed menu and you do what ever you want.

Unfortunatly this won't work with the Snes emu I don't think, as the Snes seems to use the select button in games a hell of a lot. That's why I suggested L+R shoulder buttons as well. Nobody can really hit all them 3 buttons at the same time by accident.
Press B to advance , X to cancel should be fine though in menu's

 

[bjimba]

I have a suggestion that may be easier to push as a standard.

This problem is the same one that faced DOS game programmers in the 1980s. (Actually, DOS programmers of all stripes.) The solution which took hold was that everyone agreed on one thing -- F1 = help. Almost universally, if you were lost in a game, pressing F1 would pause the game and bring up a help screen telling you the keyboard commands.

For the GP2X, I propose that [LeftShoulder+JoystickClick] be the universal Help command. It's probably unused in most games, and not a difficult combination to do.

 

[Trip]

I have a suggestion that may be easier to push as a standard.

This problem is the same one that faced DOS game programmers in the 1980s. (Actually, DOS programmers of all stripes.) The solution which took hold was that everyone agreed on one thing -- F1 = help. Almost universally, if you were lost in a game, pressing F1 would pause the game and bring up a help screen telling you the keyboard commands.

For the GP2X, I propose that [LeftShoulder+JoystickClick] be the universal Help command. It's probably unused in most games, and not a difficult combination to do.

I think that developers are trying to get away from using the stick press though, as people are trying out joypad mods on the 2x. This a sometimes makes the joypress useless.
It would also be too easy to hit those button combo's while playing the games

 

[BradN]

I think the best solution is letting the user customize the controls - something like a standard input library with built in configuration capability (or externally by an associated program) could make this more painless for developers, but I really think the key is letting the user change stuff themselves.

 

[jimmyslam]

What about:

If we play those opitons with volume up and down, that is something that gp2x and is not used in other game systems.

 

[Alvin]

I guess this would be a place to throw in my take on the diversity of UI's. It's often dissapointing to use such a wide variety of different menus. For example, SquidgeSNES compared to FCE is completely different, and it's often frustrating to play on a machine with diverse UIs. The problem is, it all looks so different, and ofen some are overly flashy (e.g. DrMDx's background). If menus could stay as simple as Reesy's DrMDx menu, but not overly flashy, it would be fantastic. It'd be difficult to enforce something like that compared to controls, but it would make the GP2X more appealing.

Of course, that could be me being picky.

 

[PokeParadox]

I have a suggestion that may be easier to push as a standard.

This problem is the same one that faced DOS game programmers in the 1980s. (Actually, DOS programmers of all stripes.) The solution which took hold was that everyone agreed on one thing -- F1 = help. Almost universally, if you were lost in a game, pressing F1 would pause the game and bring up a help screen telling you the keyboard commands.

For the GP2X, I propose that [LeftShoulder+JoystickClick] be the universal Help command. It's probably unused in most games, and not a difficult combination to do.

I think that developers are trying to get away from using the stick press though, as people are trying out joypad mods on the 2x. This a sometimes makes the joypress useless.
It would also be too easy to hit those button combo's while playing the games

The main reason why we are discouraged from using the stick push is fear that it will wear out... Most of the Dpad mods are finding way to keep the push button.

My opinion is, if it wasn't supposed to be used it wouldn't be there on the GP2X in the first place.
My other oppinion is if you didn't keep a way to press the button on your Dpad mod.. then it's your own stupid fault.

 

[mdinire]

I think the best solution is letting the user customize the controls - something like a standard input library with built in configuration capability (or externally by an associated program) could make this more painless for developers, but I really think the key is letting the user change stuff themselves.

Exactly, that would solve everything....

 

[Khayman]

I know that this has been proposed many times before, but nothing ever seems to come of it.
I'm talking about setting some basic standards/guidelines for developers to follow, which will make it easier for users to use the programs that they create.
I ask this question again today because of the news on this thread here!
It will be an absolute nightmare when testing all these new programs, if all these developers were to set their buttons up differently.

Surely it shouldn't be too hard todo & it would go a long way to making the system more user friendly.

Examples:
L+R+start = quit program
L+R+select = quit to programs main menu
L+R+volume down = save to save state
L+R+volume up = load from save state

I know that it will be more complicated for such things as the Amiga/ST emulators etc., but it would go a long way to making new homebrew programs less complicated.

Anyway bring on the feedback/flames.. Cheers

I do agree!

 

[Trip]

I think the best solution is letting the user customize the controls - something like a standard input library with built in configuration capability (or externally by an associated program) could make this more painless for developers, but I really think the key is letting the user change stuff themselves.

Exactly, that would solve everything....

Yeh.. but it would still be very useful if most of the programs came with the same settings to begin with. It would be a complete pain to have to set up every key combo for every single program you download before useing wouldn't it? People could always change them if need be anyway.
I'm not argueing against you guy's, as it's all relevant anyway:
1) Make all key's configurable with a universal framework.
2) Design a standard universal key setup that will work with at least 90% of programs straight of the bat.