Is It Time Yet?

[Epicenter]

The only thing that drives me nuts is the programs that have exit mapped to start. That just makes absolutely no sense. When playing console games start is used for...ummm....starting

Ah, we agree on something. Yes, that drives me nuts, too. I go and get all my options set in some emulator and I hit start and .. "guess what, jerk, you lost all your settings. Now set me up again, I don't have all day!"

Another thing I'd like is if apps never required the stick-push to quit. My machine has no stick push function anymore due to the d-pad and I don't really want to hack together a button that won't look right anyway. Gngeo2x fixed that recently, I'm extremely grateful.

 

[Parkydr]

The start button is used to exit (return to the start menu) by the movie player, audio player, e-book reader etc.

Why should games not be consistent with this?

 

[PokeParadox]

No cos it's a stupid use in the real menu too...
And a lot of people are using gMenu2X nowadays anyway.

 

[jimmyslam]

Well the thing of the DPad would be used for the mp3 player. Is usefull but no esential.

I said in gp32spain:

Answering to tripmonkeys standards.

When you say the thing of the MP3 player, if you realise the SELECT and START buttons have the simbols of PLAY and STOP so, we should use that, it will be easier really.

And next song could be
JoyPad+ R (next song).
JoyPad+ L (prev song).

So for the background MP3 Player:

Stop = Pad + Select.
Play = Pad + Start.
NextSong = Pad + R.
PrevSong = Pad + L.
UpVolume = Pad + VolUp.
DownVolume = Pad + VolDown.

Cheers!

 

[Trip]

Well the thing of the DPad would be used for the mp3 player. Is usefull but no esential.

I said in gp32spain:

Answering to tripmonkeys standards.

When you say the thing of the MP3 player, if you realise the SELECT and START buttons have the simbols of PLAY and STOP so, we should use that, it will be easier really.

And next song could be
JoyPad+ R (next song).
JoyPad+ L (prev song).

So for the background MP3 Player:

Stop = Pad + Select.
Play = Pad + Start.
NextSong = Pad + R.
PrevSong = Pad + L.
UpVolume = Pad + VolUp.
DownVolume = Pad + VolDown.

Cheers!

Sorry to not respond sooner jimmy, but I was reading over some guidlines that have already been worked on here! Is there anything like this already on the spanish or german wiki's I wonder?

Thanks for pointing out the symbols on the start & select buttons.. never noticed them before for some reason??
Unfortunatly the combo's that you suggested..
"And next song could be
JoyPad+ R (next song).
JoyPad+ L (prev song)."
Won't work that well. A lot of people hit the joybutton by accident while playing & it would be too easy in games to hit these buttons without meaning to
Cheers for pointing out the symbols anyway though & it would be nice to find someway to keep them consistant, even if the background mp3 player isn't really that important to most people.

p.s I answered on the Spanish site too Jimmy

 

[Dzz]

I am one of the few who do not use emulators so I'm not sure how different their controls are, but I believe the only way this effort is going to bear fruit is if the makers of the most popular emulators get together and decide on interface standards and release versions that comply with those standards. That would force the rest of us to fall into line because users (who use emulators more than anything) will expect certain behaviors. Right now, we have suggestions on the wiki (which are weak), we have new suggestions popping up occasionally like in this thread (which are usually incompatible with each other), and we have control uses in the default menu (which is used by at least 95% of gp2x users.... the GMenu2x might be nice but cumulative download total for all versions is about 1000 which amounts to a small minority of gp2x users).

So, if the makers of MAMEGP2x, DrMDx, GNGeo2x, SquidgeSNES and SNES9x (popularity of those just taken from the "most downloads" area of archive.gp2x.de) could work together on common control usage, that would convince me to use their scheme. As a developer, I don't see a compelling reason right now to use any of the competing standards as doing so is of marginal benefit to users since nobody is used to any of them except to an extent the in-built menu.

 

[jimmyslam]

Well the thing is if u are playing to a game that can cause troubles with the combo pad+R or pad+L , dont start the mp3 player (seriously). I dont find it a bad thing, really. I mean we cant make a standard to work with everything but at the moment it is very close to be a great standard to follow.
I still think about the pad+R or L for next and prev song is go to have it. Personally I hardly ever click the pad, and is less probable that I am going to press R or L at the same time. Is very very unlikely...

What do you think?

Cheers.

I answered in both . lets do answer both places so everyone knows what is going on.

 

[Trip]

I am one of the few who do not use emulators so I'm not sure how different their controls are, but I believe the only way this effort is going to bear fruit is if the makers of the most popular emulators get together and decide on interface standards and release versions that comply with those standards. That would force the rest of us to fall into line because users (who use emulators more than anything) will expect certain behaviors. Right now, we have suggestions on the wiki (which are weak), we have new suggestions popping up occasionally like in this thread (which are usually incompatible with each other), and we have control uses in the default menu (which is used by at least 95% of gp2x users.... the GMenu2x might be nice but cumulative download total for all versions is about 1000 which amounts to a small minority of gp2x users).

So, if the makers of MAMEGP2x, DrMDx, GNGeo2x, SquidgeSNES and SNES9x (popularity of those just taken from the "most downloads" area of archive.gp2x.de) could work together on common control usage, that would convince me to use their scheme. As a developer, I don't see a compelling reason right now to use any of the competing standards as doing so is of marginal benefit to users since nobody is used to any of them except to an extent the in-built menu.

Yep.. that's pretty much the nail on the head there Dzz
I've started to read through all the emulator readme's just to make sure that they will all be compatible with the suggested list that I made. If the developers want to use it, they are always welcome to it then.
Already added..
R+VolumeUp = Change screen orientation.
R+VolumeDown = Activate/deactivate screen scale or stretch.
To make it more compatible/useful with Mame
Joybutton+VolumeClick = Take screenshot.
To make it easier for developers to show off their work.

Well the thing is if u are playing to a game that can cause troubles with the combo pad+R or pad+L , dont start the mp3 player (seriously). I dont find it a bad thing, really. I mean we cant make a standard to work with everything but at the moment it is very close to be a great standard to follow.
I still think about the pad+R or L for next and prev song is go to have it. Personally I hardly ever click the pad, and is less probable that I am going to press R or L at the same time. Is very very unlikely...

What do you think?

Cheers.

I answered in both . lets do answer both places so everyone knows what is going on.

I think that we should leave the background mp3 controls out of it for now Jimmy. It's not like the software's set up to use it fully yet anyway

I answered in both . lets do answer both places so everyone knows what is going on.

I'm starting to think that it might be a good idea to set up a new site, where people from all the different countries can agree on setting standards etc. kinda like a central hub for unification.
Could go a long way to uniting the different 2x communities & speeding up development etc.

 

[jimmyslam]

well the wiki is meant to be for that but, is no where like a forum where we can discuss the standards.

 

[ryosaeba]

the GMenu2x might be nice but cumulative download total for all versions is about 1000 which amounts to a small minority of gp2x users

Well that is only for archive.gp2x.de downloads, sourceforge cumulative downloads are 2500+ and the files are hosted on other sites too.
But it doesn't make a big difference, I guess we are still a minority

Back on topic...
I also am a bit frustrated with the actual state of things, but I can live with it.
I think the best would be for alla emulator to use a menu like drmd and to adhere to a standard for the key-combo to launch that menu, but I know that it's not an easy task...

 

[krosfyah]

You know even if there was a standard for quitting out of the program, I'm one of those people that's bound to press it by accident at some point anyway. I do it now when it's the START button all the time (and swear my head off when I'm suddenly dumped back to the menu). So all I ask for is some sort of confirmation message to make it less drastic.

 

[Dzz]

You know even if there was a standard for quitting out of the program, I'm one of those people that's bound to press it by accident at some point anyway. I do it now when it's the START button all the time (and swear my head off when I'm suddenly dumped back to the menu). So all I ask for is some sort of confirmation message to make it less drastic.

I certainly agree with this; in most cases there shouldn't be an easily-pressed key combination that just dumps you out of the program. A lot of programs can benefit from pressing a key (be it START or something else) that brings up a little menu including "Quit", "Resume", and "Options" if appropriate. Just like hitting ESC in most PC games.

the GMenu2x might be nice but cumulative download total for all versions is about 1000 which amounts to a small minority of gp2x users

Well that is only for archive.gp2x.de downloads, sourceforge cumulative downloads are 2500+ and the files are hosted on other sites too.
But it doesn't make a big difference, I guess we are still a minority

Yeah, I'm not trying to be insulting, your menu sounds great and as soon as you have a scan feature I'll switch to it myself All I'm saying is that 90% or more of gp2x owners have some familiarity with at least the basic default menu key combinations so using similar combinations in a game or application is not an unreasonable idea.

 

[Trip]

Well at the end of the day, a lot of the emulators/programmes etc. are opensource anyway. These can easily be altered for testing out a more unified keyset. People can then download the modified versions & see which one works the best for them.
If the unified version works the best, then the developers would be welcome to start using it. If not then nobody's really lost out on anything & we can carry on as is.

Facts:
Linux development has become easier, due to unified projects. Just look at how far Linux has progressed within the last 2-3 years thanks to the developers setting standards. A lot of study has already been undertaken in this matter & it would be silly to ignore it.

A unified keyset will help to break down the language & geographic location barriers between the different 2x communities.

A unified key set will make it easier to test out programmes written in different languages. This will speed up development by letting more users bug test new software for developers. It will also give users more programs to play around with.
1) How many people have played Snes game's written in Korean without any hassle, due to knowing that it uses the same keys & layouts for the game as nearly every English Snes game.
2) Over the last day or so, I've managed to sign up for the Spanish forum, post & edit without any hassle even though I only know about 2 words in Spanish. This is because I'm used to the layout of the forum software & I can easily get by without knowing what any of the words say at all.

It will make the need for language translation of software less urgent, allowing developers to concentrate on coding the fun features that they want to add.

They will also save coding time, by all the most important key's needed for the program being setup & mapped out for them.

Personaly.. I think that it's well worth the effort.
If we never try, then we'll never know

p.s Ryo's menu is great by the way & It seems to work spot on without the scan feature. Will be near perfect once it stops screwing with the tv-out

 

[ryosaeba]

Yeah, I'm not trying to be insulting, your menu sounds great and as soon as you have a scan feature I'll switch to it myself

No offence taken, just wanted to point out... The scan feature is coming

All I'm saying is that 90% or more of gp2x owners have some familiarity with at least the basic default menu key combinations so using similar combinations in a game or application is not an unreasonable idea.

Actually that's the only possible reason for a program to use start to quit, other than that it's just crazy, and personally I don't want to adhere to such a standard.

p.s Ryo's menu is great by the way & It seems to work spot on without the scan feature. Will be near perfect once it stops screwing with the tv-out

I have some problem with that. I'm working on it though...

 

[PokeParadox]

I can understand using the start button to bring up a menu... and then from there you have the option to quit... but otherwise like Ryo says... it's just crazy.

 

[Trip]

I can understand using the start button to bring up a menu... and then from there you have the option to quit... but otherwise like Ryo says... it's just crazy.

Can't you see it's madness dammit..

I have some problem with that. I'm working on it though...

I know how hard your working on the menu Ryo, wasn't having a go at you m8

 

[PokeParadox]

I am agreeing that it is madness to use start to quit... But!!! it makes a little bit more sense if the start button brings up a menu which offers a quit option.

 

[Trip]

I am agreeing that it is madness to use start to quit... But!!! it makes a little bit more sense if the start button brings up a menu which offers a quit option.

Yeh I'm in complete agreement with you PokeParadox.
Just because I've set key combo's for quiting in the list I made, doesn't mean that it shouldn't be added to the menu same as always
I've tried to make the combo's as hard to hit by accident as possible in game, while still allowing for the usual way programmers write the main features of a program.

***EDIT***
Ah crap.. just noticed what you mean. I left the menu start as quiting to 2x's main menu . I'll change it.. Done.

 

[Dzz]

I am agreeing that it is madness to use start to quit... But!!! it makes a little bit more sense if the start button brings up a menu which offers a quit option.

Yeah, to me that just makes the most sense. In my opinion you should normally be able to get to some state where you can choose (given clear instructions like X=EXIT or a scrollable menu or whatever) to exit the program, using a single fairly obvious button. Of the choices available, ABXY don't seem natural, I'd use those to play a game. The joystick is out. I'd expect the volume button to control ... volume. L or R could be used, but it's not particularly intuitive. That leaves SELECT and START. I suppose it's a tossup between the two for which to use.

I certainly agree that it's a bad idea for ANY button to just dump you out of a game by pressing it. If for some reason you need a fast shortcut to do that it can be an obscure key combination.

However, if something obscure like L+R+SELECT is the only way to bring up the menu from which the quit option is available, that seems pretty bad to me unless everybody who owns a gp2x knows exactly to do that. Which they don't.

 

[Alvin]

In the most un-insulting way possible, sorry Tripmonkey, but there's so many combinations there to remember it's just too much effort. Learning to use an emulator or game should be easy, not a long list of combinations that do stuff.

In regard to that, as previous people have stated, Start to go into a menu is all that's needed - combinations for emulators should be configurable. I don't want to do R+Down+Whatever else just to save a state. It's much easier to just press Start (or select) and choose to save the state in the menu, just like with DrDMx. Probably the best emulator around because it's as simple as one button, and then everything else is explained.