Is It Time Yet?

[ledro]

The first impression of an application is so damn important both graphic wise as usebility wise.

I definitely agree that we should try to keep a standard for functionality of the keys.

Also as someone mentioned before in this thread, keep the menu's simple, use as little different colors or just one shade (check http://www.color-wheel-pro.com/color-theory-basics.html) and also use one font type. Your menu's just look a lot more proffesional.

And using hardcoded paths.... that's unforgivable. I have high regards for emulator programmers I think it's one of the hardest coding there is. So I'm so impressed when a coder posts about the latest emulater he has released, and i think 'wow I'm so impressed with this guy that he was able to emulate this-and-that computer' only to realize that you can only install it in a certain directory, and the roms on another exotic location. It's just a bit... you know...stupid. And i know it's not a big deal. Still lot's of people who downloaded the application get the're ass kicked by being told on all the forums to RTF.txt .

BTW i'm glad that the gp2x doesn't have a keyboard, otherwise we'll be all starting our application with a quizillion commandline parameters. Which would make the gp2x totally unintresting other than the programmers themselves.

Well.. eh.. what i'm just trying to say was that a first impression is more important than many realize.

just my 2 cts

 

[mdinire]

I think the best solution is letting the user customize the controls - something like a standard input library with built in configuration capability (or externally by an associated program) could make this more painless for developers, but I really think the key is letting the user change stuff themselves.

Exactly, that would solve everything....

Yeh.. but it would still be very useful if most of the programs came with the same settings to begin with. It would be a complete pain to have to set up every key combo for every single program you download before useing wouldn't it? People could always change them if need be anyway.
I'm not argueing against you guy's, as it's all relevant anyway:
1) Make all key's configurable with a universal framework.
2) Design a standard universal key setup that will work with at least 90% of programs straight of the bat.

IMO it should be whatever is easier for the developer.. i fully agree with you though

 

[sehs33]

what about:

We can start by adding all possible needed functions, for example the quit game, pause emu, save state, load state... etc all in one place, a text file for an example, each emu should check whatever functions of those it can implement, and load the combination from that text file, this text file can be written using a simple app, and might (in future updates) include several combinations for one function depending on what emu are we using, this way one can map buttons to whatever form he likes, and then follow a standard he makes, so instead of making a standard of combinations, we should make a standard editable settings file and its api that all emus can use.

What do u guys think? in case this wasn't clear I will gladly explain more.

 

[krosfyah]

Persoanlly, I like diversity..

Edit: Not as much as I like making typos though.

 

[Trip]

We can start by adding all possible needed functions, for example the quit game, pause emu, save state, load state... etc all in one place, a text file for an example, each emu should check whatever functions of those it can implement, and load the combination from that text file, this text file can be written using a simple app, and might (in future updates) include several combinations for one function depending on what emu are we using, this way one can map buttons to whatever form he likes, and then follow a standard he makes, so instead of making a standard of combinations, we should make a standard editable settings file and its api that all emus can use.

I think I know what your on about sehs33
Got to keep in mind though, that the more advanced emulators with software keyboards etc. will need a different config file than the normal one. Same could be said for things like RPG's maybe?

Here's a first draft of the standard button combo's I was thinking of for anyone that's interested. Think that I've covered all the basics, but give me a shout if I've missed any ..

In Menu:
Directions = up,down,left & right.
B = Select.
X = De-select.
R= Navigate forward/next page/next track.
L= Navigate back/prev page/prev track.
Start = Opens a Quit dialogue, with an option to quit program or cancel the quit command.
Select = Programs main/universal options.
L+VolumeUp = Overclock program.
L+VolumeDown = Underclock program.
L+R = Return to the game in progress.
Joybutton+VolumeClick = Take screenshot.

In Game:
Directions = up,down,left & right.
B,X,A,Y,L,R,Start,Select,VolumeUp & VolumeDown = Whatevers best for the program.
L+R+Start = Opens a Quit dialogue, with an option to quit program or cancel the quit command.
L+R+Select = Pauses the game & goes to the main menu.
L+R+VolumeUp = Load game from save state.
L+R+VolumeDown = Save game to save state.
L+R+VolumeClick = Emulators Bios settings/in game options.
L+VolumeUp = Overclock game in progress.
L+VolumeDown = Underclock game in progress.
R+VolumeUp = Change screen orientation.
R+VolumeDown = Activate/deactivate screen scale or stretch.
VolumeClick = Universal pause/un-pause (rather than using different buttons for different systems -pauses the entire program & not just the game/level).
Joybutton+VolumeClick = Take screenshot.

In Options/Bios menu's:
Directions = up,down,left & right.
B = Select.
X = De-select.
R= Navigate forward/next page/next track.
L= Navigate back/prev page/prev track.
Start = Opens a Quit dialogue, with an option to quit program or cancel the quit command.
L+R = Return to the game in progress or main menu (depending if the options menu is navigated into from ingame or the main menu).
Joybutton+VolumeClick = Take screenshot.

p.s Would be nice if some dev's would comment on these, as it's mostly your opinions that matter at the end of the day

***EDIT***
Updated the list with..
R+VolumeUp = Change screen orientation.
R+VolumeDown = Activate/deactivate screen scale or stretch.
Joybutton+VolumeClick = Take screenshot.
R= Navigate forward/next page/next track.
L= Navigate back/prev page/prev track.
Start = Opens a Quit dialogue, with an option to quit program or cancel the quit command.
L+R+Select = Pauses the game & goes to the main menu.
L+R+Start = Opens a Quit dialogue, with an option to quit program or cancel the quit command.

 

[TelcoLou]

I don't care ... I adapt as needed. It would be great if that damn joystick-center-push thing is never used again though; my only 'gripe'

 

[Trip]

The main reason why we are discouraged from using the stick push is fear that it will wear out... Most of the Dpad mods are finding way to keep the push button.
My opinion is, if it wasn't supposed to be used it wouldn't be there on the GP2X in the first place.
My other oppinion is if you didn't keep a way to press the button on your Dpad mod.. then it's your own stupid fault.

Ah.. cheers for clearing that up PokeParadox.

I know a lot of people are wanting the option to listen to MP3's while they game.
The joybutton, could be a good way of controlling the background music player if used with the right button combo's. This would keep it's usefullness, while making sure that it doesn't get over used or pressed too hard.

Joybutton+VolumeUp = Mp3 volume up.
Joybutton+VolumeDown = Mp3 volume down.
Joybutton+Start = Mp3 next track on playlist.
Joybutton+Select = Mp3 prev track on playlist.
Joybutton+VolumeClick = Mp3 pause/stop/mute????

 

[o0o0o]

I actually find myself avoiding certain emulators because I can't remember what the key combination is to exit their app. I end up with a billion save states as a consequence. After a few failed tries, I typically just turn the whole system off.

I also fear showing people the GP2X for this very reason.

 

[JaqMs]

Why does there have to be a key combination for exiting an app? Can't they just put the option in a menu?

 

[Trip]

Why does there have to be a key combination for exiting an app? Can't they just put the option in a menu?

I suppose they could. I'm just lazy that way

***EDIT***
Just a rough dreft remember & the dev's mght not even want to use it. I just thought that the key combo was a little faster than scrolling through the menu.

 

[Trip]

I also fear showing people the GP2X for this very reason.

Yeh.. I've got quite a few people who enjoy playing the games on mine, but as soon as it comes time to start a new emulator/program or game they just pass it straight back to me.

 

[krosfyah]

Come on, it's not THAT hard..

 

[Trip]

Come on, it's not THAT hard..

Try telling that to my 7 year old neice

If one of my freinds is playing on an emulator & decide that they want to try another one, I can't remember the key combo's etc. for them to even get out of the emulator they are using. I can do it myself, but I do it on auto pilot after I've used the emulator a couple of times & I don't know the combo's Off the top of my head to tell them.
I pretty much do what TelcoLou does & just adapt.

***EDIT***
Besides there are other reasons for having standard key combo's.
It will also make it easier to test out & use non-English written programs made for the 2x.
Same goes for non-English reading people who want to test out English software.
That for me is probably the best reason that I can think of to use them

 

[BobBorakovitz]

The only thing that drives me nuts is the programs that have exit mapped to start. That just makes absolutely no sense. When playing console games start is used for...ummm....starting

 

[DaveC]

The main reason why we are discouraged from using the stick push is fear that it will wear out... Most of the Dpad mods are finding way to keep the push button.

My opinion is, if it wasn't supposed to be used it wouldn't be there on the GP2X in the first place.
My other oppinion is if you didn't keep a way to press the button on your Dpad mod.. then it's your own stupid fault.

Well, there should be a way to be allowed to configure something else other than joystick press. It should NOT be a requirement. It does wear out the pivot point of the stick sooner and yes it makes joypad mods much more complicated. Adding another switch to pad mods adds more wires and requires a separate mount for it.

I have been using MAME using L+R+select and I actually like that much better for exiting than the joypress. The joypress is mostly only "useful" for menus anyway as if you tied a game control to it you would be hitting it accidentally while playing anyway. It should not be required, it really doesn't add much.

Another thing that should be added is that 2 ordinals should give a diagonal. This is for pad mods. Since the default stick cannot hit 2 ordinals at once, and the joypad can't hit that in-between joystick diagonal it can be hard coded at all times as one scheme has no effect on the other.

 

[Trip]

Another thing that should be added is that 2 ordinals should give a diagonal. This is for pad mods. Since the default stick cannot hit 2 ordinals at once, and the joypad can't hit that in-between joystick diagonal it can be hard coded at all times as one scheme has no effect on the other.

Good point DaveC.
It would be silly not to add it, so consider it done

 

[slygamer]

It has been discussed and documented in the wiki for a long time.

http://wiki.gp2x.org/wiki/Common_User_Inte...Recommendations

One of the first things that console manufacturers do and strictly enforce is the adherence to a set of rules. Sony calls these TRC (Technical Requirements Checklist), Microsoft call these TCR (Technical Certification Requirements) and Nintendo call them Lotcheck. One set of these rules is for the user interface and what each button does. It is because of these user interface rules that someone can start a new game and know how to use the menus.

However, as a community, everyone wants something different so nothing gets decided. It's a fact of life that design by committee does not work. I've been developing games for long enough to have experienced this first hand. Unfortunately in this community people who play emulators speak the loudest and thus emulators have an undue influence over everything else.

Emulators should also fall under these rules, but only for the user interface outside of the games they are emulating. It should not matter which system the particular emulator is emulating. The emulator is running on the GP2X so it should conform to the rules regarding the user interface on the GP2X. The game being emulated will use whatever rules were in force for that particular system at the time, and that should have no influence on the user interface used for the emulator's own menus.

Because there is no one person or group who can make a binding decision on these matters, this issue will just keep going and going without a resolution.

 

[BradN]

Another thing that should be added is that 2 ordinals should give a diagonal. This is for pad mods. Since the default stick cannot hit 2 ordinals at once, and the joypad can't hit that in-between joystick diagonal it can be hard coded at all times as one scheme has no effect on the other.

This could be another argument for a common input library, as well as ensuring that USB connected joysticks or even more exotic button style input devices could even be backwards supported in apps created prior to their common use. The app would just have to enumerate its different input actions, and the library could be made to take care of the rest. A PC compiled version could even simplify development by making it one less thing that a programmer has to treat differently for testing.

 

[PokeParadox]

The main reason why we are discouraged from using the stick push is fear that it will wear out... Most of the Dpad mods are finding way to keep the push button.

My opinion is, if it wasn't supposed to be used it wouldn't be there on the GP2X in the first place.
My other oppinion is if you didn't keep a way to press the button on your Dpad mod.. then it's your own stupid fault.

Well, there should be a way to be allowed to configure something else other than joystick press. It should NOT be a requirement. It does wear out the pivot point of the stick sooner and yes it makes joypad mods much more complicated. Adding another switch to pad mods adds more wires and requires a separate mount for it.

I have been using MAME using L+R+select and I actually like that much better for exiting than the joypress. The joypress is mostly only "useful" for menus anyway as if you tied a game control to it you would be hitting it accidentally while playing anyway. It should not be required, it really doesn't add much.

Another thing that should be added is that 2 ordinals should give a diagonal. This is for pad mods. Since the default stick cannot hit 2 ordinals at once, and the joypad can't hit that in-between joystick diagonal it can be hard coded at all times as one scheme has no effect on the other.

DaveC, I agree that it should be remappable... I just think that not using it at all is silly. I also think it makes a good "function key" since it is not hammered all the time (like in shmups with no autofire), and as you said, it doesn't really serve too much purpose in a game.

Conclusion, maybe the commands to exit, etc. should be standard, with a remappable function key?

 

[jimmyslam]

Hey Tripmonkey_uk:

I answered in gp32spain have a look