IPC2 and P2 keyborard wars

[Grench]

A couple of bits in that picture concerns me.


it looks like the back corners may be "shoulder buttons" again. I would like to recommend against this.


If the back corners of the case double as shoulder buttons, then there is nothing to protect them - i.e. they're subject to 'impacts' every time the machine is set down on the table or the friend you let play crushes them.


Much better would be to use physical keys the size of the ABXY in slight depressions on the back. Yes, this disrupts the aesthetic on the back - but that is disrupted anyway by the other ports/etc on the back side of the device.


Having L1/L2 and R1/R2 doesn't mean they have to be stacked vertically - I'd actually rather have them arranged horizontally so they're all used with index finger presses.


A big advantage to having two 4mm+/0 buttons side by side on each shoulder is that they would take up about the same volume as the existing Pandora's corner/shoulder buttons - while being able to be recessed for protection.


Give it some thought?

 

[gadgetoid]

it looks like the back corners may be "shoulder buttons" again. I would like to recommend against this.

The shoulder buttons are on the shoulders, none of that recessed-in-the-back nonsense this time 'round. You can see the contacts for them in the top right and left corners of the PCB.

 

[TrashyMG]

If the back corners of the case double as shoulder buttons, then there is nothing to protect them - i.e. they're subject to 'impacts' every time the machine is set down on the table or the friend you let play crushes them.

Your assuming these will be built like the Pandora's shoulder buttons.. if done right they may be quite durable .. There has been plenty of other controllers built such as the SNES shoulder buttons that can take a beating.


Edit: Although I never had any issues with the Pandora's shoulder buttons..

 

[Grench]

it looks like the back corners may be "shoulder buttons" again. I would like to recommend against this.

The shoulder buttons are on the shoulders, none of that recessed-in-the-back nonsense this time 'round. You can see the contacts for them in the top right and left corners of the PCB.

"this time 'round"??? The Pandora's aren't recessed - they're switch covers that end up being the lower back corners of the case - and subjected to abuse as a result. I'd rather have case plastics on the case corners than a primary device control.

If the back corners of the case double as shoulder buttons, then there is nothing to protect them - i.e. they're subject to 'impacts' every time the machine is set down on the table or the friend you let play crushes them.

Your assuming these will be built like the Pandora's shoulder buttons.. if done right they may be quite durable .. There has been plenty of other controllers built such as the SNES shoulder buttons that can take a beating.


Edit: Although I never had any issues with the Pandora's shoulder buttons..

I have - my left shoulder button on my CC unit has been dead for months. Looking through the forums, the mechanics of a shoulder/casecorner flapping panel that actuates a switch has been an issue throughout the Pandora I's lifespan. The presence of buttons on the back left/right of the case IS a logical requirement for a game device - I'm not arguing against having them.


Look at your buttons in the ABXY controller on the right of your Pandora I. Now picture two of those on each side 2mm and 8mm in from the outer edges on the back of the Pandora II - in dished recesses so they don't extend past the edge of the case.


Moving them off the physical corner of the device by 2mm so they're protected won't change gameplay - if anything it will enhance it. I find myself hitting the existing shoulder buttons by accident when using shifted or Fn keys as my off hand subtly squeezes the device to stretch my thumb over the keyboard. Moving them in off the corner would help with this too.


An added advantage is that the trigger parts themselves left-right become symmetrical - lowering production costs a bit. It's a piece of circuit board (held vertically) with two contacts, a two button rubber mat and two key caps per side with a set of wires to the motherboard. It's a much simplified and more rugged design.


It's subtle - but if it cuts out even half of the shoulder button RMA hassles - it might be worth the adjustment.

 

[2bit]

I think I have a solution for the money debate : we can have have a genirec money symbol then on the screen pops up a list of currency Icons and then we can use the Dpad to scroll and the enter key to select it .

 

[vcoleiro1]

Yes, media controls (play, stop, rewind etc etc) would be a great idea. I think some designs with these would be good to see. It would add to the user base of people who would buy it and really should be a given IMO.

 

[Exophase]

I think I have a solution for the money debate : we can have have a genirec money symbol then on the screen pops up a list of currency Icons and then we can use the Dpad to scroll and the enter key to select it .

Yeah, totally feasible idea for a device meant to work as a universal controller</sarcasm>


The thing has plenty of keys, I'm sure there's room for all of them under third functions.

 

[TransparentCranium]

Having those as L2/R2 buttons seems cool in theory, but it ignores some crucial factors:


- As long as they are different keys, games can use them whether they're marked as "L2"/"R2" or not.


- They aren't all that useful as L2/R2 buttons if you have to press a modifier key.


- ...and even worse, you're suggesting making the modifier key Shift. Consider that L is the normal Shift key.

Won't there be l2/r2 buttons on the shoulder? That is an absolute must (the nyko playpad and its partnership with nvidia shows that android controller support will be tailored for 4 shoulder buttons, hopefully the p2 will be able to supply a comparable experience to a high end smartphone + nyko playpad when it comes to android gaming at least.) for the p2 and since the ICP2 and P2 share tech...

 

[2bit]

I think I have a solution for the money debate : we can have have a genirec money symbol then on the screen pops up a list of currency Icons and then we can use the Dpad to scroll and the enter key to select it .

Yeah, totally feasible idea for a device meant to work as a universal controller</sarcasm>


The thing has plenty of keys, I'm sure there's room for all of them under third functions.

It has been said / implied that it will share the same Key Board and if this DOES NOT imitate a icade they could develop a internal software enabling it ...


I should have mentioned it but i intended my sugestion for the Pandora 2 .

 

[pndrsky]

We need to make the keyboard as close as possible to the standard layout.

This.


Some keyboard layouts utilize [ ] ; ' < > keys for common letters, and it's not cool to use on Pandora with weird < > placement and four other keys missing. A "universal controller" would be better with these keys in their usual place. Maybe as an option (mode) in the controller, at least?

 

[gadgetoid]

"this time 'round"???

I presumed you were referring to the iControlPad shoulder buttons. If you're not familiar with them... I won't familiarise you. Wouldn't wish that on anyone!

 

[thatgui]

The following just concerns Pandora 2:

If the back corners of the case double as shoulder buttons, then there is nothing to protect them - i.e. they're subject to 'impacts' every time the machine is set down on the table or the friend you let play crushes them.


Much better would be to use physical keys the size of the ABXY in slight depressions on the back. Yes, this disrupts the aesthetic on the back - but that is disrupted anyway by the other ports/etc on the back side of the device.


Having L1/L2 and R1/R2 doesn't mean they have to be stacked vertically - I'd actually rather have them arranged horizontally so they're all used with index finger presses.


A big advantage to having two 4mm+/0 buttons side by side on each shoulder is that they would take up about the same volume as the existing Pandora's corner/shoulder buttons - while being able to be recessed for protection.


Give it some thought?

Having often pressed the shoulder buttons by accident (and its highly likely that this will continue) - I would really recommend this solution

Yes, media controls (play, stop, rewind etc etc) would be a great idea. I think some designs with these would be good to see. It would add to the user base of people who would buy it and really should be a given IMO.

Why ? Most applications have already keys reserved for this - why special keys which would surely be usefull, but only 10-20% of the time, while there isn't a lot of space to cover all keys of a standard AT keyboard ?

We need to make the keyboard as close as possible to the standard layout

Could not have said it better


Why are the [Enter] key and its mirrored 'brother' that big ? - make two out of them, would make a lot more sense to me

 

[vcoleiro1]

Why, because as I said , there are some people such as myself who would like to use it as a media control (amongst it's other functions). Additionally labelling some of the keys for (special function enabled) media controls would be awesome. Even if it's only wanted by 20% of people, thats 20% potentially more sales. It makes a big difference.

 

[thatgui]

Why, because as I said , there are some people such as myself who would like to use it as a media control (amongst it's other functions). Additionally labelling some of the keys for (special function enabled) media controls would be awesome. Even if it's only wanted by 20% of people, thats 20% potentially more sales. It makes a big difference.

First: my last comment was (as stated) only targeted in the Pandora 2 direction, I don't care about the ICP


That would be okay, if there were lots of keys to spare, but there aren't - special media control keys are less important that keys that could be vital for a certain purpose. Btw. having people using it max 20% of the usage time doesn't equal to having 20% more customers :wacko:

 

[Znirk]

On the other hand, having people using it max 20% of the usage time doesn't equal 20% of people wanting it either. It's all very difficult.

 

[Amnykon]

here is the layout that I developed.

normal

  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0

   ^	   _	   ^	  up,	    start/ctrl,   page up

  < >  ()  =  ()  < >  left, right, mouse, scroll, home, end

   V	   _	   V	  down,	   select/alt,  page down

q w e r t y u i o p [ ]

 a s d f g h j k l ; '

  z x c v b n m , . /

- _ _ _  space  _ _ _ - fn, shift, meta, tab, space, bs, del, esc, enter


shift

  ! @ # $ % ^ & * ( )

   ^	   _	   ^	  up,	    start/ctrl,   page up

  < >  ()  =  ()  < >  left, right, mouse, scroll, home, end

   V	   _	   V	  down,	   select/alt,  page down

Q W E R T Y U I O P { }

 A S D F G H J K L : "

  Z X C V B N M < > ?

- _ _ _  space  _ _ _ -  fn, shift, meta, tab, space, bs, del, esc, enter


function

  _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _    10 remappable keys.

   ^	   _	   ^	  up,	    start/ctrl,   page up

  < >  ()  =  ()  < >  left, right, mouse, scroll, home, end

   V	   _	   V	  down,	   select/alt,  page down

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _  12 f keys

 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ~ _ + |   7 function keys(row 1)

  _ _ _ _ _ _ ` - = \    6 function keys(row 2)

- _ _ _  space  _ _ _ -  fn, shift, meta, tab, space, bs, del, esc, enter

13 function keys:


row 1:


print screen


rewind


stop


pause


play


fast forward


insert


row 2:


volume +


volume -


channel +


channel -


bright +


bright -


10 remappable keys are customizable that can:


Start programs.


Be mapped to a character ie money signs.


Change ICP control modes.


shoulders:


l1: shift


r1: ctrl


l2: alt


r2: fn


missing key:


mute

 

[vcoleiro1]

20% was my guesstimate on people that would want media controls, not based on anyone else's guess for other things like usage. Let's not confuse things further. I think it would be good to add them as i described earlier to the ICP 2 as Craig made mention as a possibility. There are plenty of letter keys for eg these could be added to as special functions. They just need to be additionally labelled on/below whatever keys are chosen. Media controls would be great, but that's just my opinion, each to there own. With the great media players that you now get on Android, it would be a shame and a missed opportunity not to add them.

 

[Bosbeetle]

What is an IPC?

 

[Binky]

What is an IPC?

an iCP from the point of view of someone who doesn't proof read too thoroughly

 

[erico]

I vote for having a x-mit key! :blink: