iCP2: They're throwing in the towel.


I don't deny that he's lied about things, but that's not enough to make the leap that he's lied about everything.
Nobody said that Craig is complete idiot. Of course he didn't lie about everything. Sad thing is that there are always people that want to "believe". So, there is always some Craig to fulfill their wishes.
 
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Poor planning and management yes, scam I think not. Delays involving the Pandora and icp2 could probably both be directly linked back to shitty project management.
It was excellent project management! For him. He took money from Pandora preorders, then he took money from ED, then he took money from ICP2. Year after year. And he is still untouchable: if authorities start to investigate possible fraud at Kickstarter, Link is in trouble (Product 3), not Craig.


And people here still believe that it was just bad circumstances. Kind of masterpiece.
 
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@Exophase


We agree that it was a fraud, not a scam and that Craig's intentions were good, even if his actions weren't.
rl7298 clearly does not agree, and this sort of conspiracy theorist reasoning on his part only hurts his efforts to get any kind of resolution out of the ordeal.


One thing I know about this project is that, like Pandora, the mechanical design was supposed to be done by DaveC. I don't remember anyone ever hearing anything publicly from him, but that doesn't mean he never did any work - someone had to design the prototype demonstrated in the video, even if it had no actual function. Given that the mold design would have also been under his domain I don't find it inconceivable that some work was done to that end as well.


And you have the wrong idea here, it's not that I find it so hard to believe that Craig stole money from Pandora (although I'm not really sure where paying himself wages ends and where stealing money begins - apparently under UK company law even an LTD with debt can still pay its owner), I simply don't think there's enough evidence to say it with any real certainty. And that accusations kind of demand such a thing, especially if you're expecting to get anywhere legally.


I don't deny that he's lied about things, but that's not enough to make the leap that he's lied about everything. Probably most people lie about something or other, I have and you probably have to, if perhaps not to level of severity Craig has.
My view does differ from Ryan's in that I don't believe Craig set out to rip people off. I think his intentions were good at the outset, but then he started to fleece the project, for what reasons I neither know nor care. Ultimately he took too much to finish the project and bailed. I have no doubt this isn't the first time he's done this and I have no hesitation in saying Craig stole from the ICP2 project. If he accounts for the money I will happily and publicly apologize, but it won't happen. He still hasn't explained where all the Pandora preorder money went.

I never said he lied about everything but he's lied and been deceptive about enough to cast serious doubt on pretty much everything he says. It really doesn't matter what work was done on the cases, there is nothing to suggest the molds were ever made and plenty to suggest they weren't. No cases were ever fabricated, the swivel clamps were never mentioned after the project started, even in the face of dozens of questions. Yet the money for all these things and others is unaccounted for. 

This isn't a court of law, it's a forum, we're not bound by the same burden of proof. That said, even courts don't require a smoking gun, circumstantial evidence can be enough, especially when the defendant does not or cannot offer any other explanation. If you wan't to reserve judgement until you get your smoking gun, that's fine, but it's my view and the view of others that the circumstantial evidence is more than enough.
 
Fatih simply stopped working with Craig when Craig showed he's not capable of handling such a large-scale project (and started to lie about everything).


It was about the same time I started to work on getting the Pandora production out of Craigs hands to continue it properly. - Quote from Evildragon


I think we caught him out when he said he was so short of money he had to remortgage his house, then after the kickstarter campaign and his, now removed, personal ad where he was talking about his recent long vacation travelling across the states.(doesn't come cheap)
 
Latest mail update from the KS:


________


Hello Backers,


I was hoping for a more substantial update at this point with some news from Craig and iControlPad Ltd., as this company was the manufacturer of the iControlPad and were going to be the manufacturer of the ICP2.  Product 3 LLC was a subordinate company tasked with getting the project into motion which it did successfully.


In late February, I received an email from Craig stating "I'm just really sorry it worked out like this. Just let me know what you need me to do so that nothing hurts you."... 


The email closed again with "Once more I'm sorry you had to be involved in this mess. I never intended for this to happen."


This project was intended to help get iControlPad Ltd. a successful Kickstarter campaign and the successful building of the ICP2 and completion with fulfilling backers of the project with what they've ordered.    We see where this has gone.  


Craig states that he is selling his home and will turn over the proceeds to iControlPad Ltd.  I haven't heard a word from him since that email.  Hopefully the house gets sold, and this will put some more money back into the coffers for backer refunds.  Let's hope for the best here.


We are also waiting on the team in Germany to sell back what parts they can that remained from what didn't get produced in the mass production of ICP2 PCBs.  Many of these parts may not sell as the market for them is very limited especially since they've been open for the test run of PCBs. 


In the meantime, for those of you seeking a refund, I suggest you contact: http://www.icontrolpad.com/about/


There is also an email address that has been setup for refunds:  


icp2refund@gmail.com


For the email address above, please contact it only if you desire a refund, and get us an update on your mailing address or PayPal email address in which we can refund you.


That's the update until we get more info from the UK and Germany. 
 
so in conclusion...

"2 Months "
LOL! Yeah, that sounds about right.

Anyways, I just sent my request for a refund. Is anyone thinking that backers won't ask for a refund? Shouldn't it just be issued to all backers who didn't get their pledge fulfilled? Oh well, at least there is some progress being made(or so they say) :p

Chris
 
What's the angle on asking for refunds via email? Legally, everyone who put money in is obligated to get money or product out, via terms of Kickstarter. I would expect the only way to get out of that would be for someone to email them and ask that they opt out of the refund class. Otherwise, the address info can be subpenaed from Kickstarter and those people are still owed refunds.

The need to opt in to a refund is extremely fishy. It almost sounds as if Mark wants out, so he's putting it all on Craig. Craig owns the domain and the email address, and is told to handle it all. Mark washes his hands of it and goes on his merrily way. I don't think Mark's legal responsibility ends there though. I'm consulting with my legal counsel before opting in to anything. By opting in, I may be loosing some rights.
 
Can't touch this

Baby-eats-from-magazine.gif
 
Council hall for sale, comes with eggs freshly applied onto all windows, when least expected. We expect this to be a tenative agreement pending current residents relocation, and public knowledge thereof.

Immediate access to live profanity, and a mailbox stocked with supplies of burnable-grade forestgoods. The roof can carry the weight of half a man, and should you venture therefrom out into the back garden, rest assured it is all hidden from google view.

What's the angle on asking for refunds via email? Legally, everyone who put money in is obligated to get money or product out, via terms of Kickstarter. I would expect the only way to get out of that would be for someone to email them and ask that they opt out of the refund class. Otherwise, the address info can be subpenaed from Kickstarter and those people are still owed refunds.

The need to opt in to a refund is extremely fishy. It almost sounds as if Mark wants out, so he's putting it all on Craig. Craig owns the domain and the email address, and is told to handle it all. Mark washes his hands of it and goes on his merrily way. I don't think Mark's legal responsibility ends there though. I'm consulting with my legal counsel before opting in to anything. By opting in, I may be loosing some rights.
It sounded a little bit too real to be true. If i'm Link i dont sit on that email for a full month. I hope he isnt biting, and i would be very interested to see what kind of legal advice he has assembled at this point.

If you want some free advice it would be to not play it as if you could have something to hide. For us common people it would be very welcoming to have information, also including why exactly project3 is in the clear.

Dont like the "team" bit. ED is hired as a middleman, for no pay it seems, and globalcomponents is a contractor. ED has laid his cards on the table and its very easy to understand his role is not to do with the information that isnt available.

Apart form the regular no sale policy, I expect a situation from craig where refunds beyond those who opt in can't happen because it will be a "pool" of people which results in two lists, one of kickstarter people, and the other which is the refunds.

People move residential address, email, things get difficult, basic arithmetic, someone gets two refunds, excuses are made, and all of a sudden the smoke and mirror clears and the whole process will have been done in the dark.

With only the people to successfully go in first and be loud about it to get anything.

Possibly.

I dont understand why the opt-in cant be done in the kickstarter comment section, or why kickstarter creator regular practice of issuing full refunds isnt something you would opt-out of.

Ill be on the lookout for house listings in newcastle, got some money to spend that i have leftover from not investing in icp2. And craig, you still owe me money on openpandora ltd.
 
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What a load of crap. I can't help but agree with Ryan, it looks like Link is doing his best to distance himself from this as much as possible. He's obviously preparing us for the refund (if any) to be minimal and the opt-in looks like an attempt to minimize the number of refunds that have to be paid. Frankly, Link is handling this just as badly as Craig was.

As for Craig selling his house, that should be pretty easy to check, we have his address. But I doubt it's happening. he claimed he was mortgaging it during the Pandora pre-order fiasco yet no one saw a cent from him. I'm sure this will be no different.

From Craig, none of this is surprising. From Link, this is disappointing.
 
I went for the Pi backer edition + Int shipping .  All up $100 even.  
 
Perhaps Link thinks if he pushes this all on Craig, the fact that he's in the UK, we have little to no recourse. Then he is off the hook. That way he no longer holds any cards, and everyone leaves him alone. Except that his name is on the LLC. If his name was not on the LLC, it would be all Craig's doing and we'd be screwed. That's not the case here. It's just a matter of how far any of us desire to take this.

ED, if you absolutely must use Link for distribution of the Pyra, make sure you have everything in writing and a signed contract. Have a lawyer read it over. Please protect yourself and your buyers. Link has a serious problem with taking responsibility for things he puts his name on.

At this point Craig is going to have two queue's. One for outstanding Pandora orders, and the other for outstanding ICP2 orders. Neither are going anywhere.
 
In late February, I received an email from Craig stating "I'm just really sorry it worked out like this. Just let me know what you need me to do so that nothing hurts you."... 
Is this email for real ? Craig saying "sorry" and caring about others ? This sounds like fiction to me.  

And Craig, selling his house ? Mouhahaha is all I can say. I don't see this happening. Or maybe he is selling his house to get a bigger one with the money he made. 
 
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In late February, I received an email from Craig stating "I'm just really sorry it worked out like this. Just let me know what you need me to do so that nothing hurts you."...
Is this email for real ? Craig saying "sorry" and caring about others ? This sounds like fiction to me.


And Craig, selling his house ? Mouhahaha is all I can say. I don't see this happening. Or maybe he is selling his house to get a bigger one with the money he made.

...that quote was part of the emailed update you know, that wasn't my personal comment.


So I've not had such an email from Craig personally, that was [presumably] Link speaking there.


I can only presume that Link did get an email from Craig, and he's letting us know via that update.


Just to be clear, my post up there was entirely a quote from the update provided.. my only addition was the top line before the underline seperater
 
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