iCP2: They're throwing in the towel.


After a year of sitting  at GC or wherever they are, I don't see it as realistic that anyone will purchase these parts.   Firstly by now you would assume that the factories that sold them to the ICP2 project are not taking them back.  Why would they, they are now a year old and second hand, not sure they can even re-sell them accept as second hand (which they probably cant do)
 
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The parts have been unsealed a few months ago (for the prototype run).

Many are still sealed (since they come in batches), so they're almost brand new.

A lot of the standard parts (Resistors, etc.) have been sold to GC for use for other customers.

I even sold 200 three year old OMAPs which we didn't need anymore (for half the price).

Selling is not impossible. If you have parts with a long lead time that someone urgently needs you can be lucky and sell them for a very good price.

Or if you sell them cheap enough, you can also get rid of them.

The trick is to find a good value in between.

Sell them for a price as high as possible.
 
@ED,  fair enough, if they were sealed that makes a difference 

Can you provide us a run down of the parts and what has been sold and what is still waiting to be sold.  

Also, is it still possible to get the nubs that those ICP2 PCBs were designed to use?.   If not, they are a lost cause for us tinkerers who had hoped to buy nubs for them and get them going.
 
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Drammurt said:
For some of the backers it's ok if Mark Linkhorst can get away with this $200k+ scam, for some it isn't and they want their money back or they just want justice to be done. I respect any of those choices. IMHO, there's no reason to call people retarded if they want to go to the Small Claims Court. It's their right to do so.
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Does he have the $200k? Has he ever had the $200k aside from when he pushed it to Craig? Saying that he got away with a scam is total nonsense.

I still think it's ridiculous that you're how you're holding Link to the letter of the law after yourself committing fraud against the iCP2 project.

Drammurt said:
And Exophase, I have given Mark Linkhorst the chance to refund me and I promised I would never interfere with this Kickstarter again. Maybe you didn't notice I have been away from the Kickstarter-site and these boards for a few months? If Link would have refunded me before march 1st I wouldn't be here. I wasn't surprised, he promised me in june to refund me, but that was another false promise. Go ahead and give him the money if you trust him. He has my PayPal account for the refund.
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Here's where you didn't really get what I said. It'd be stupid for him to refund everyone who asks, even if they send him an e-mail threatening a lawsuit, because I doubt he can afford very many of those - certainly not a large percentage of the preorders. He should only refund the people who actually file lawsuits, which will be close to no one because few will put up with something that's probably more costly to them than their purchase was.

Maybe he promised to refund you in June because he was under false pretenses that Craig would be able to refund him. He doesn't have your money.
 
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I would like my money back too... but certainly not at the further expense of any of the other backers. Or Link.

The only thing I would support is some kind of legal arrangement where Craig himself is made to pay back the discrepancy in funds... even if it is done over a number of years. (Though how this could be brought about, I don't know). Not because I desperately need that money back, but because I think it would be *good* for Craig to have no option other than to take responsibility for his actions and learn from this.

I once spent yeeeeears paying off a debt I incurred due to my irresponsible management of funds and it sucked really hard doing so... but guess what, I'm so glad I did. I'm the more mature person for the experience and will never be so reckless with money again.
 
Yeah... so basically Craig gets off. No good of this going to come of this for anyone, except backers who become a little wiser. I don't see craig growing from this, if he cant be held responsible he's just getting the affirmation that using others for personal gain is an ok and clever thing to do.
 
Klumpen said:
You all invested in the wrong horse. Deal with it.

(Yes, it was an investment, you didn't buy anything.)

Good luck to Link finding a way to get the stolen money back from Mr. Fuckface.
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I think that's a very big "IF". Nobody even talks about the project on the Kickstarter page, so nobody knows anything that is going on unless they come to this forum and poke/prod/shove until Link or someone else actually says something. Hell, look how long it took me until Link actually said anything to me. I can only assume the countless emails I and other backers sent over this last year went to the circular file. General impression: Link's going to do absolutely nothing in relation to pursuing Craig. If he actually pursued Craig and posted about it on Kickstarter, I think half of us would die from utter shock. Then again, maybe you should do that, then your make believe refund pool will shrink by 50%, thus more money will be available for everyone else's refunds. :)
 
FaeMinx said:
Yeah... so basically Craig gets off. No good of this going to come of this for anyone, except backers who become a little wiser. I don't see craig growing from this, if he cant be held responsible he's just getting the affirmation that using others for personal gain is an ok and clever thing to do.
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That doesn't mean that the court can't find Craig did nothing wrong, though. I suppose if someone really wants to make an example of him, or are just that curious, they can follow the rabbit hole and see where it goes.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around it all - intuitively, for an LLC to deserve limited liability the owners shouldn't be allowed to simply transfer money as they please into their personal accounts. From what I can find, the owners are only supposed to have access to profit, which should be strictly defined to money that's left over only after all outstanding debts have been paid. So Craig's LLC should have made zero profit. The 3D printer could be considered a company expense rather than Craig's personal possession, and therefore not a breach of transfer of funds although open to liquidation. The money he spent to fund several Pandoras on his preorder queue, however, couldn't possibly be justified as a company expense. We don't know if he used any of the rest of the money for himself.

One potential caveat is that the LLC owners can take an "owner's draw", which is similar to a salary, where money is taken for services rendered unto the company. I have no idea what the regulations are for this; I presume there has to be something. Or maybe this money is still subject to the liability of the company? It's apparently also possible that, depending on your actions, your company can end up being viewed by the court as a sole proprietorship despite being registered as an LLC.

Some of what I'm saying now does go against things I've said before about what Craig did with profit, so I could have been wrong about stuff..
 
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I wonder what company of Craigs Link was dealing with?  

I certainly hope Craig sees the light and returns any funds his company still has to Link  - including money that should be gotten from the sale of the 3D printer.   Otherwise this is going to get messy - possibly ending up with Link suing Craigs company.
 
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Craig would be lucky to get even $2000 on the 3D printer. So maybe $1 per backer on average. I'm actually surprised this model has even retained its value to the extent it has.
 
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$2000 is a fair bit - I doubt some of the parts for sale will gather that much, but its the principle of it as you probably can imagine.  Imagining this guy profiting from this Kaos he caused with a 3D printer is hard to swallow.
 
It's more than just likely, that he transfers his companies property to his personal accounts on a regular basis not caring about debts or profits, that includes lots of money and things like all the Pandoras he sold at eBay. He has no intention of liquidating companies property like 3D printer or electric car either, that has gone into his personal property too, I think.

It's all clearly illegal, so why do you still discuss whether a lawsuit would be bollocks?
 
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If 'clearly illegal' were so easy, we wouldn't need courts, just pitchforks and trees.
 
Klumpen said:
It's more than just likely, that he transfers his companies property to his personal accounts on a regular basis not caring about debts or profits, that includes lots of money and things like all the Pandoras he sold at eBay. He has no intention of liquidating companies property like 3D printer or electric car either, that has gone into his personal property too, I think.

It's all clearly illegal, so why do you still discuss whether a lawsuit would be bollocks?
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Lawsuits don't go through based on what is "more than likely", they work on what is provable beyond reasonable doubt to be true. Get hold of his company books and do an audit, and you can get material for a lawsuit (or find out that it won't hold water). Don't fool people into trying to open proceedings based on what you think is likely. I would agree with you that it is likely, but that is no basis for a lawsuit.
 
Is it really so hard to force him to open his books with official pressure?
 
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Klumpen said:
There isn't?

No breach of contract in all those years with you, Link or anyone else?
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If someone breaks a contract which makes you loss you can just demand a compensation, not opening books.
 
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