I pre-ordered a OpenPandora in 2010 and still haven't received anything

[ponlork]

I purchased it on a whim over 11 years ago and last I remember there was some inner turmoil within the company but I don't see why I should be penalized for that. When I placed a pre-order there no option to choose shops, there was only one option to email the sales department at sales@openpandora.org

Preorder 2nd batch

OpenPandora.org - The official site of the OpenSource Pandora Gaming console handheld

web.archive.org

it mentions "If you are from UK, within the EU or worldwide, you can order from sales@openpandora.org"

I much prefer a refund though. My order came out to be $426.98

 

[TrashyMG]

Well you're one of the people that got ripped off by Craigix who ran the Pandora project out of the UK, Craigix failed to deliver after the first batch of Pandoras shipped because he had difficulties dealing with the logistics and such, he basically flaked out and left this community abruptly, leaving hundreds of people in the lurch who ordered the Pandora, unfortunately your order was with him.

Production was started up again by EvilDragon who was basically only the German website guy at the time, he stepped up and got production going again from scratch in Germany, but this was an independent effort on his part and not who you ordered from, but he did offer Craigix customers a greatly discounted Pandora. He didn't have to do that, he had no obligations to Craigix's customers.

I Don't know about UK laws and refunding something purchased well over a decade ago, but I'd say anything you could have done, should have been done a decade ago.

 

[Wally]

You've also had a full blown explaination in this thread and had every opportunity to follow up back then but ultimately chose to leave it for 10 years

 

[TeDaDeS]

You've also had a full blown explanation in this thread and had every opportunity to follow up back then but ultimately chose to leave it for 10 years

I agree with this and I also acknowledge that Graig didn't provide his customers with Pandora's. To do so in 10 years sounds like a long period but I assume it's something that came to mind after 10 years again, as it's a pretty annoying situation.
The release of the Pandora and Pyra weren't the fastest either, so it's not unusual for forum members to wait at least a few years before complaining. It's that ED is picking-up Graig's slack even though he doesn't need to, as his shop was also a customer that didn't receive the Pandora's (if I remember correctly). ED offered Ponlork a discounted 1GHz model, if I remember correctly these customers got a discount by having the community and ED's shop chip in addition cash. So I don't feel like Ponlork was ignored all these years.
If I was Ponlork I would also still be annoyed, and I also understand he wouldn't want to pay ED after Graig has taken his money and running the risk of losing even more money. But I assume he also sees that it's probably not realistic he'll get his money back.

 

[ponlork]

Well you're one of the people that got ripped off by Craigix who ran the Pandora project out of the UK, Craigix failed to deliver after the first batch of Pandoras shipped because he had difficulties dealing with the logistics and such, he basically flaked out and left this community abruptly, leaving hundreds of people in the lurch who ordered the Pandora, unfortunately your order was with him.

Production was started up again by EvilDragon who was basically only the Website guy at the time, he stepped up and got production going again from scratch in Germany, but this was an independent effort on his part and not who you ordered from, but he did offer Craigix customers a greatly discounted Pandora. He didn't have to do that, he had no obligations to Craigix's customers.

I Don't know about UK laws and refunding something purchased well over a decade ago, but I'd say anything you could have done, should have been done a decade ago.

the problem is i dont follow the inner turmoil that goes on within the site. When I ordered it, it was at openpandora.org, when the item i ordered doesn't get fulfilled I go to the site (openpandora.org) and post on the forums at boards.openpandora.org. When I placed a pre-order there was no option to choose a shop only to email at sales@openpandora.org, if I ordered a item at amazon and it doesn't get fulfilled, they can't use the issue that it was some bad business partner or blame some chip manufacturer and they send me to do some cat and mouse game where I gotta go track certain individuals. I purchased the product at this site and was told that I'm a troll and given all sorts of excuses why the site isn't responsible.

as for the threads back in 2012-2014, i posted on there too and was given the same runaround. Believe it or not people got real life issues like eviction notices and problems that they can't really spend 10 years of every waking moment at a site asking for a update and only given a solution of paying a extra 350$ for a upgrade or nothing.

And even if that was the case, if I purchase a Wii U in 2010 from a site that still hasn't arrived, and i keep getting the runaround and 12 years later they say u know what? i'll jus give u my used wii u. I mean its better than nothing but it doesn't hold the same value. If i ran a business and had unfulfilled orders from consumers who paid nearly 500$ over 12 years ago i'll just do the right thing and fulfill it even if it comes out my own pocket. 10 years is adequate time to right a wrong they just choose to ignore.

I purchased it randomly on a whim without knowing anything about it i just saw a handheld device that looks cool and purchased it randomly and didnt bother wasting time reading the comments everyday on forums. i just waited patiently. At this point i have zero interest in the device, its about principle. just do the right thing and give what the consumer purchased. Those people on kickstarter can post angry comments every single day for 7 years, is that going to magically make them get a refund? Whats that going to do besides give someone more trauma and added stress. the last time i emailed openpandora was in 2019 and it was ignored

and even if someone suppresses the problem for years and try not to think about it because it brings nothing but pain, that doesn't mean it's forgotten. and really i shouldnt even have to ask or bring it up. imagine if u loan someone 500$ and they suddenly disappear and avoid you and you have to keep tracking them and asking them about it. And they're like, how much was it again? and giving u the run around. So now i gotta keep track of everything? I asked plenty of times. i shouldnt even have to ask. So if i dont ask they gonna jus ignore it and hope the problem disappear and hope i dont ask for it? they're the one who should keep track of these things and reaching out to me

"ED offered Ponlork a discounted 1GHz model, if I remember correctly these customers got a discount by having the community and ED's shop chip in addition cash. So I don't feel like Ponlork was ignored all these years"

wasn't the other option was to simply wait and hope for the unit to arrive eventually instead of paying a extra 350$ for an upgrade? so what about those who decided not to pay extra and chose to wait. They werey ignored? that'll be like if u purchase something on fb marketplace or something and they meet up with you and say you gotta pay a extra 30$ for their gas trip. that wasn't the agreed upon price and frankly at this point im not even interested in the device anymore i just want what i ordered or give a refund

 

[b_o_b]

It is not that complicated. You paid to Craigix and not to ED. Craigix' company has gone bust and ED who is still around doesn't legally or morally owe you anything. It sucks but things like this happen.
So not sure what you're trying to achieve here, if you just want to vent I'd say "mission accomplished".

 

[elw3]

so what about those who decided not to pay extra and chose to wait. They werey ignored?

I waited a few years, then it came.

Mind you there where very clear warnings on the order page that this might happen, there was no product to buy at this point, the money for the preorder was used to actually build it and at this point no one knew if that was enough to build it. Well turned out it wasnt, that is the whole story. Project dead.
And then ED took the ruins, managed to transfer the production to germany and actually squeezed a few units out of the remaining parts because he felt the duty to fulfill his shop preorders. Again, a DIFFERENT shop than where you ordered. He did not get rich on it or anything. There was no margin to deal with unhappy customers, we are all happy that it just gave us something in the end.

But yea TLDR: You failed reading the warnings, dont come whining here, this project was an experiment, if you want top notch customer support buy a gameboy.

 

[TeDaDeS]

the problem is i dont follow the inner turmoil that goes on within the site. When I ordered it, it was at openpandora.org, when the item i ordered doesn't get fulfilled I go to the site (openpandora.org) and post on the forums at boards.openpandora.org. When I placed a pre-order there was no option to choose a shop only to email at sales@openpandora.org, if I ordered a item at amazon and it doesn't get fulfilled, they can't use the issue that it was some bad business partner or blame some chip manufacturer and they send me to do some cat and mouse game where I gotta go track certain individuals. I purchased the product at this site and was told that I'm a troll and given all sorts of excuses why the site isn't responsible.

I would agree it's not really clear from this page that the UK you were dealing with a different store (Graig) compared to the German store (ED).
So from a customer perspective I would agree it's not very clear from this 'Where to buy'-page, but I don't know how that holds up legally. Both shops were independent entities and in different countries (with different laws).

But in that case I would blame the person owning the website, which was also Graig.
It clearly states the shop you were thinking you would be buying from is the UK one, not the shop from ED.
So if there wasn't an option to select a shop you would be buying from this one.
ED's shop in Germany was a reseller and was in the same situation as you are: both invested money (and time) and didn't receive any unit.
But ED invested his own time and money to make the Pandora work and even compensated some of Graig's customers by providing the some limited available Pandora's and the rest received an offer to upgrade to the 1GHz model which was made by him.

So feel free to be angry about the situation. But I assume the only shop you can hold accountable is OpenPandora Ltd in England.
ED might even be willing to work with you, even after all these years and not taking up the 1GHz offer. But it looks like he's not owing you anything.
Still doesn't change the fact you don't like what happened, as most of us here and I guess especially ED, know what that is like.

 

[ClockworkCoder]

The entitlement and "just shy of £500” reminds me of the recent furore around Lady Decade. A bit.

Sometimes life sucks, but it could always be worse (you have managed to survive without the money for 10 years so far).

As pointed out, it's not really ED's problem or responsibility at this stage in any case.

 

[ponlork]

It is not that complicated. You paid to Craigix and not to ED. Craigix' company has gone bust and ED who is still around doesn't legally or morally owe you anything. It sucks but things like this happen.
So not sure what you're trying to achieve here, if you just want to vent I'd say "mission accomplished".

if Elon takes over twitter he still has to take care of the baggage that came along with it. I purchased from this site, who still handles this site? why is it my responsibility to even know any of these people are. if it was to be taken to court i'll win

Post automatically merged: Dec 3, 2022

I would agree it's not really clear from this page that the UK you were dealing with a different store (Graig) compared to the German store (ED).
So from a customer perspective I would agree it's not very clear from this 'Where to buy'-page, but I don't know how that holds up legally. Both shops were independent entities and in different countries (with different laws).

View attachment 38450

But in that case I would blame the person owning the website, which was also Graig.
It clearly states the shop you were thinking you would be buying from is the UK one, not the shop from ED.
So if there wasn't an option to select a shop you would be buying from this one.
ED's shop in Germany was a reseller and was in the same situation as you are: both invested money (and time) and didn't receive any unit.
But ED invested his own time and money to make the Pandora work and even compensated some of Graig's customers by providing the some limited available Pandora's and the rest received an offer to upgrade to the 1GHz model which was made by him.
View attachment 38451

So feel free to be angry about the situation. But I assume the only shop you can hold accountable is OpenPandora Ltd in England.
ED might even be willing to work with you, even after all these years and not taking up the 1GHz offer. But it looks like he's not owing you anything.
Still doesn't change the fact you don't like what happened, as most of us here and I guess especially ED, know what that is like.

when you say option to select shops, does a person in the US have that option if the second option mentions if you're in Germany or the EU?

 

[ponlork]

The entitlement and "just shy of £500” reminds me of the recent furore around Lady Decade. A bit.

Sometimes life sucks, but it could always be worse (you have managed to survive without the money for 10 years so far).

As pointed out, it's not really ED's problem or responsibility at this stage in any case.

people can survive without 500$ just like the site is still able to operate after 12 years. it's the principle. i dont see how its comparable to the lady decade situation. she used some ip without permission and started ebegging when she got into legal trouble. im just a honest consumer who ordered something that wasn't delivered, post about it and is repeatedly mocked and told over and over to get over it. what kind of business practice is that?

i pre-ordered a item from this site that implied that it was in production and expected to ship out in a few months, only to wait patiently for years to be told that there's inner turmoil and whatever excuse and given a option of upgrading for an additional 350$ on top of the 468$ ive already paid. that's like over 800$ for a handheld device and back then due to inflation that would have been well over a thousand dollars for something i wasn't even really invested in in the first place. one could get a PS5, gaming laptop or a GPDwin with that

but put that into perspective, imagine if someone starts a kickstarter and for years it didnt deliver and u gotta track down the person involved in it, and he tells you, well i got another campaign that is much better. u only have to pay another $350 and wait some more. why would one even subject a person to fall into that same trap again

if the person who was in business with the product is still operating after all these years, then they are capable of doing the right thing and reimbursing the consumer or giving the damn product they ordered

 

[ponlork]

I waited a few years, then it came.

Mind you there where very clear warnings on the order page that this might happen, there was no product to buy at this point, the money for the preorder was used to actually build it and at this point no one knew if that was enough to build it. Well turned out it wasnt, that is the whole story. Project dead.
And then ED took the ruins, managed to transfer the production to germany and actually squeezed a few units out of the remaining parts because he felt the duty to fulfill his shop preorders. Again, a DIFFERENT shop than where you ordered. He did not get rich on it or anything. There was no margin to deal with unhappy customers, we are all happy that it just gave us something in the end.

But yea TLDR: You failed reading the warnings, dont come whining here, this project was an experiment, if you want top notch customer support buy a gameboy.

okay so you got yours, so am i the last person left who still hasn't got theirs? i viewed the threads and havent seen anybody posting about not getting theres. Is it because i'm in the US and isn't as vocal about it everyday that they feel they can exploit that and just ignore it? Why am I the only one not receiving it and I've waited longer than anybody here.

What were the warnings? where in the front page did it say that it was an experiment. when I purchased it it was already in production, and later i was seeing the product in stock on the site that you can purchase right away. how is that experimental and risky

 

[ponlork]

I would agree it's not really clear from this page that the UK you were dealing with a different store (Graig) compared to the German store (ED).
So from a customer perspective I would agree it's not very clear from this 'Where to buy'-page, but I don't know how that holds up legally. Both shops were independent entities and in different countries (with different laws).

View attachment 38450

How I see that is they got two different departments handling the shipping for the worldwide orders and another for Germany and the EU. that's how any normal average person would see it. They don't automatically assume it's two completely separate companies that have nothing to do with each other

 

[λ the β-Redex Reducer]

if Elon takes over twitter he still has to take care of the baggage that came along with it.

Did Elon Musk not buy the whole company instead of just taking over the website?

why is it my responsibility to even know any of these people are. if it was to be taken to court i'll win

I am not sure about that. Did you not buy from Craigix' company through this website? Seems to me like you would be making the deal with the entity that owns the website, not with the website itself.

 

[elw3]

Yea OK, the UK shop did make many big errors in advertising and false claims.
I love the "get it before christmas" part, but to be fair no year was specified and any time is before christmas.

Joke aside: The point is that your money is not in EDs hands. He didnt took over that company finances, any concessions he made towards who ordered from the UK shop where paid out of his own pocket.
Please dont blame completely different people for what happened 10 years ago, they are not here anymore. And they neither meant to rip you off, everyone underestimated the amount of work it took to produce the pandora, that some people simply got no unit was the result of that.

but put that into perspective, imagine if someone starts a kickstarter and for years it didnt deliver and u gotta track down the person involved in it, and he tells you, well i got another campaign that is much better. u only have to pay another $350 and wait some more. why would one even subject a person to fall into that same trap again

But this is exactly how kickstarter works.

 

[ponlork]

Did Elon Musk not buy the whole company instead of just taking over the website?


I am not sure about that. Did you not buy from Craigix' company through this website? Seems to me like you would be making the deal with the entity that owns the website, not with the website itself.

from my recollection, ED and craig were partners so he didnt take over the site, he was apart of the site when the process was going down. to say he has absolutely nothing to do with any of this is just deflecting and making excuses

Post automatically merged: Dec 3, 2022

Yea OK, the UK shop did make many big errors in advertising and false claims.
I love the "get it before christmas" part, but to be fair no year was specified and any time is before christmas.

Joke aside: The point is that your money is not in EDs hands. He didnt took over that company finances, any concessions he made towards who ordered from the UK shop where paid out of his own pocket.
Please dont blame completely different people for what happened 10 years ago, they are not here anymore. And they neither meant to rip you off, everyone underestimated the amount of work it took to produce the pandora, that some people simply got no unit was the result of that.

But this is exactly how kickstarter works.

and im gonna call out bs when i see it. when a consumer purchases a item from a site, he shouldnt have to be penalized for the mistakes that the company makes or who they got involved with. When sony had issues with errors displaying they didnt tell consumers, it wasn't our fault, it was the chip company, the chip company! go talk to them. nah they handled it and took responsibility.

when i ordered this product it was already in production and some were shipped out and was assured that the next batch would arrive in a few months. if it was "Experimental" as the dude above claims, then put it in writing. on the front page put it in there that this project is experimental and if you pre-order then there's a good chance that you wont receive your product. or point out to the comment in the thread of someone saying it's "experimental and risky". and even that i dont feel a consumer should dig into. And for the record i did go through the forums when i purchased it in 2010 and i didnt see anything that indicates that it's a experimental crowdfunding campaign. From what i saw, some were already shipped and the project was already completed

 

[ponlork]

imagine if you loan someone 500$ and they disappear and when you track them down years later they say, well u seem to have adjusted well without the 500$ so surely u can survive without it. you should just get over it cuz its entitlement if u ask for it. this is the logic this site is trying to suggest aint that some bs

 

[elw3]

But you havnt tracked them down.

 

[ponlork]

But you havnt tracked them down.

lets say you own a buisness, like a camera repair shop or something. and one of your employees working on a customers camera decided to jus say u know what? i quit bye. and just leaves abruptly. if i own the shop i'll still feel partly responsible for it im not gonna tell the customer to go chase after the dude working on your camera. even if i have to fix the camera my damn self

 

[elw3]

like a camera repair shop

How unsettling, how did you know i repair cameras?

This analogy doesnt work cause in our case the boss walked of and an employee felt responsible.