I finally have my Pandora

[Prometheus]

Um... I DID compare it to an actual SNES. Didn't I mention this before? Without frameskip, Star Fox severely lags on the Pandora at 500 MHz, almost as much as the game naturally does on the SNES, which results in horribly slow sound. The speed is so close to what it is on the SNES that I misinterpreted it as a sound glitch when the problem was that I didn't have frameskip enabled:


http://boards.openpa...dpost__p__99425

We're not talking about lag related to your Pandora's CPU speed setting when you're emulating the game. We're talking about the speed at which Snes9x4P is running the game, which is independent of that and is incorrect. The speed of the sound is also independent of this, as, unlike the game speed, it is correct.


I don't usually say things in such a manner, but if you're not noticing the problems, then there is no way that you've compared it to a real SNES. You only have to watch and listen to the pre-title-screen intro to see it, never mind play any of the game (which will reveal the problems just as quickly)!

 

[diligentcircle]

Um... I DID compare it to an actual SNES. Didn't I mention this before? Without frameskip, Star Fox severely lags on the Pandora at 500 MHz, almost as much as the game naturally does on the SNES, which results in horribly slow sound. The speed is so close to what it is on the SNES that I misinterpreted it as a sound glitch when the problem was that I didn't have frameskip enabled:


http://boards.openpa...dpost__p__99425

We're not talking about lag related to your Pandora's CPU speed setting when you're emulating the game. We're talking about the speed at which Snes9x4P is running the game, which is independent of that and is incorrect. The speed of the sound is also independent of this, as, unlike the game speed, it is correct.

Well, why did you have to jump out and say (paraphrasing) "no, you're completely wrong" when I said that it only runs at double-speed when you have frameskip enabled? I only pointed that out because ocean clearly didn't have frameskip on.


EDIT: Just because the emulator is trying to run at double-speed doesn't mean it actually is. You wouldn't say that Star Fox runs at double speed on the original console, would you?

 

[Prometheus]

Um... I DID compare it to an actual SNES. Didn't I mention this before? Without frameskip, Star Fox severely lags on the Pandora at 500 MHz, almost as much as the game naturally does on the SNES, which results in horribly slow sound. The speed is so close to what it is on the SNES that I misinterpreted it as a sound glitch when the problem was that I didn't have frameskip enabled:


http://boards.openpa...dpost__p__99425

We're not talking about lag related to your Pandora's CPU speed setting when you're emulating the game. We're talking about the speed at which Snes9x4P is running the game, which is independent of that and is incorrect. The speed of the sound is also independent of this, as, unlike the game speed, it is correct.

Well, why did you have to jump out and say (paraphrasing) "no, you're completely wrong" when I said that it only runs at double-speed when you have frameskip enabled? I only pointed that out because ocean clearly didn't have frameskip on.

Actually, you pointed out nothing to ocean. Please do not put words and actions in my mouth - I did not "jump out" and do anything.


You quoted *me* and said to me that it only runs at double speed when frameskip is enabled, which is incorrect, and I pointed that out.

EDIT: Just because the emulator is trying to run at double-speed doesn't mean it actually is. You wouldn't say that Star Fox runs at double speed on the original console, would you?

It actually is running it at the incorrect speed. As I said, I have compared it to the real thing from both of the SNES' regions (it technically only has two - the Japanese and North American units share a region).


It runs at the correct speed on the original console, unsurprisingly, and incorrectly on an emulator that's well known to emulate that particular aspect of the hardware incorrectly.


I'm not quite sure where you think trying to argue against easily proven facts is going to get you, but I have no interest in arguing with you over them.

 

[diligentcircle]

I'm not quite sure where you think trying to argue against easily proven facts is going to get you, but I have no interest in arguing with you over them.

Star Fox/Starwing actually runs twice as fast as it should.

Only if you have frameskip enabled.

No, this is completely incorrect (and I never have frameskip enabled, for the record). Try comparing it to a real SNES before making such claims - I have, both a 50Hz one and a 60Hz one. That's why I know there is an issue and that's why I am offering a bounty for getting it fixed. (Do you really think that they released to retail a game that ran too fast to the point of cutting off its own music, and other such issues? )


It runs twice as fast no matter what, because the version of Snes9x (1.39) upon which Snes9x4P is based did not emulate the Super FX chip correctly back in the day.

(Emphasis added.)


I wasn't arguing with you. I just said that it doesn't run at double-speed if you don't have frameskip enabled. You said I'm completely wrong.

 

[Prometheus]

I'm not quite sure where you think trying to argue against easily proven facts is going to get you, but I have no interest in arguing with you over them.

Star Fox/Starwing actually runs twice as fast as it should.

Only if you have frameskip enabled.

No, this is completely incorrect (and I never have frameskip enabled, for the record). Try comparing it to a real SNES before making such claims - I have, both a 50Hz one and a 60Hz one. That's why I know there is an issue and that's why I am offering a bounty for getting it fixed. (Do you really think that they released to retail a game that ran too fast to the point of cutting off its own music, and other such issues? )


It runs twice as fast no matter what, because the version of Snes9x (1.39) upon which Snes9x4P is based did not emulate the Super FX chip correctly back in the day.

(Emphasis added.)


I wasn't arguing with you. I just said that it doesn't run at double-speed if you don't have frameskip enabled. You said I'm completely wrong.

But it does run at double-speed, always, frameskip, choppiness, or not. That was my entire point to begin with.

 

[WizardStan]

As I said earlier, this was a known bug in snes9x 1.52 and earlier (and many other emulators at the time). As I understand it, the FX chip in the Starfox cart was clocked at half the rated speed, a speed that was later ramped up to full for all other games that used it. As a result, early emulators emulated the chip at full speed which resulted in rendering twice as fast, but since Starfox was the only game that used it at this half speed it doesn't cause problems with any other game.


Snes9x4P is based off the 1.39 branch (I think it was 1.39, somewhere around there) so does actually have this bug. Frameskip or not, it is rendering twice as fast as it should be.

 

[Mr Rob]

Is it possible to regulate the speed of the FX chip in the emulator? Say add an option in the menu to run the chip at 1/2 speed easily enough? Or is it more complicated than that?

 

[Prometheus]

^ You mean like having a "Star Fox hack" toggle? I don't know how possible that would be, but that would be fine and I'd pay up the bounty for that.


@Stan - Star Fox 2 also runs too fast, but it doesn't really work properly right now anyway (fit-inducing flickering, and everything off-set and screwed-up-looking doesn't count ), so that's a bit moot. :lol:

 

[diligentcircle]

^ You mean like having a "Star Fox hack" toggle? I don't know how possible that would be, but that would be fine and I'd pay up the bounty for that.


@Stan - Star Fox 2 also runs too fast, but it doesn't really work properly right now anyway (fit-inducing flickering, and everything off-set and screwed-up-looking doesn't count ), so that's a bit moot. :lol:

Star Fox 2 wouldn't have lagged on the SNES if it were released. It used the Super FX 2 chip (the same one as Yoshi's Island).

 

[Prometheus]

Yes, I'm quite aware of that. I know a great deal about Star Fox 2...


However, that does not change the fact that most emulators even today still run Star Fox 2 too fast in spite of that. :lol:

 

[diligentcircle]

Yes, I'm quite aware of that. I know a great deal about Star Fox 2...


However, that does not change the fact that most emulators even today still run Star Fox 2 too fast in spite of that. :lol:

:huh:

 

[Prometheus]

Yes, I'm quite aware of that. I know a great deal about Star Fox 2...


However, that does not change the fact that most emulators even today still run Star Fox 2 too fast in spite of that. :lol:

:huh:

Again, do you really think that anyone - let alone Argonaut and Nintendo, of all companies - would have released a game to retail that runs too fast to the point of cutting off its own music and events? The answer is no, they would not have - the reason is that the emulation in most emulators is incorrect. Quite astonishingly, on real hardware, it runs correctly.


I believe that BSNES is still the only one that gets it right for emulating Star Fox 2, last I checked.

 

[diligentcircle]

Again, do you really think that anyone - let alone Argonaut and Nintendo, of all companies - would have released a game to retail that runs too fast to the point of cutting off its own music and events? The answer is no, they would not have - the reason is that the emulation is in most emulators incorrect. Quite astonishingly, on real hardware, it runs correctly.


I believe that BSNES is still the only one that gets it right for Star Fox 2, last I checked.

It's a perfect match for sounds on ZSNES...

 

[Prometheus]

Again, do you really think that anyone - let alone Argonaut and Nintendo, of all companies - would have released a game to retail that runs too fast to the point of cutting off its own music and events? The answer is no, they would not have - the reason is that the emulation is in most emulators incorrect. Quite astonishingly, on real hardware, it runs correctly.


I believe that BSNES is still the only one that gets it right for Star Fox 2, last I checked.

It's a perfect match for sounds on ZSNES...

ZSNES is not something to compare to if you're looking for accuracy...


Again, to my knowledge, BSNES is still the only emulator that doesn't cut off the music for various events before it's finished, and so on...

 

[diligentcircle]

Again, do you really think that anyone - let alone Argonaut and Nintendo, of all companies - would have released a game to retail that runs too fast to the point of cutting off its own music and events? The answer is no, they would not have - the reason is that the emulation is in most emulators incorrect. Quite astonishingly, on real hardware, it runs correctly.


I believe that BSNES is still the only one that gets it right for Star Fox 2, last I checked.

It's a perfect match for sounds on ZSNES...

ZSNES is not something to compare to if you're looking for accuracy...


Again, to my knowledge, BSNES is still the only emulator that doesn't cut off the music for various events before it's finished, and so on...

I wasn't comparing anything to ZSNES, I just didn't notice any issues with sound on ZSNES related to speed. ZSNES is a pretty commonly used emulator, I think.


In all fairness, though, I did look at bsnes (which runs incredibly slowly on my old laptop; only around 10 FPS), and it does look like ZSNES is slightly faster; the intro ends about 6 seconds sooner (I say "slightly" because this is so little difference it's hard to notice during gameplay, nothing like Star Fox; that's 1/5 additional speed when you notice that the intro is around 30 seconds). I then looked at the Pandora (which I always ignored since it doesn't display anything correctly anyway) with overclock enabled, and indeed, it's also too fast (even faster than ZSNES).


But it looks like the current version of Snes9x goes at the correct speed. I just tested it with version 1.52 on Linux Mint.

 

[Prometheus]

But it looks like the current version of Snes9x goes at the correct speed. I just tested it with version 1.52 on Linux Mint.

Pipe dream, but: I would up my bounty to double if we could have this running as well as Snes9x4P runs.

 

[diligentcircle]

But it looks like the current version of Snes9x goes at the correct speed. I just tested it with version 1.52 on Linux Mint.

Pipe dream, but: I would up my bounty to double if we could have this running as well as Snes9x4P runs.

I should call you Mr. Inferrypants... <_<


Anyway, isn't the main problem that the current version of Snes9x doesn't display anything on ARM platforms (e.g. the Pandora)?

 

[Prometheus]

But it looks like the current version of Snes9x goes at the correct speed. I just tested it with version 1.52 on Linux Mint.

Pipe dream, but: I would up my bounty to double if we could have this running as well as Snes9x4P runs.

I should call you Mr. Inferrypants... <_<

Well, I'm female, for starters, so that wouldn't fit. I'm not too sure what "Inferrypants" is supposed to mean, though - one who carries a ferry in one's trousers? :lol:

Anyway, isn't the main problem that the current version of Snes9x doesn't display anything on ARM platforms (e.g. the Pandora)?

Yep, that's right. I've heard it mentioned (but can't find the post right now - it might have been on the other forum) that some had claimed to have gotten it working, but not said how, too, so I'm guessing that it's been done by someone somewhere. I hope we see it too, at some point.

 

[diligentcircle]

Well, I'm female, for starters, so that wouldn't fit.

OK, then, Ms. Inferrypants.

I'm not too sure what "Inferrypants" is supposed to mean, though - one who carries a ferry in one's trousers? :lol:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/infer

 

[Prometheus]

Haha. Thanks. (Though I do know what infer means, I couldn't quite be 100% sure if that was what was in use here - I've come across some oddball manglings of words in my time, you see. :lol: )