I do not like wireless

[KickAss]

The point is that until somebody comes up with a plausible mechanism by which these rays are dangerous, it isn't even worth studying. Without that scientists can't even formulate a hypothesis to test let along collect useful data. We've been bombarded by much more dangerous cosmic rays for the entire period our species has existed without any meaningful impact. Similarly, the rates of skin cancer from UV have never been particularly large.

in other words: if we dont understand how it works and how it could cause negative effects, we wont need to keep verifying that its safe, because we wouldnt know how to do that. is that what you are saying?

incidence rates of skin cancer not being particularly large - where exactly? australia?

I'm far more worried about the toxic substances that have been used in the manufacture of these devices in the past than anything that they're emitting now.

haha good point, actually

 

[hedwards]

The point is that until somebody comes up with a plausible mechanism by which these rays are dangerous, it isn't even worth studying. Without that scientists can't even formulate a hypothesis to test let along collect useful data. We've been bombarded by much more dangerous cosmic rays for the entire period our species has existed without any meaningful impact. Similarly, the rates of skin cancer from UV have never been particularly large.

in other words: if we dont understand how it works and how it could cause negative effects, we wont need to keep verifying that its safe, because we wouldnt know how to do that. is that what you are saying?

incidence rates of skin cancer not being particularly large - where exactly? australia?

That's an inaccurate reinterpretation.

We don't need to verify the safety because nobody has put forward a plausible mechanism for them causing cancer or any other health problems from being exposed to the wireless that's in our environment. We don't have unlimited funds for scientific research, so things like this where there's just a small number of whackadoodles claiming an imaginary risk get left off the ledger. Now if they manage to come up with some evidence and a plausible mechanism, then conducting science to confirm or disprove the idea becomes reasonable.

Bottom line here is that the burden of proof is on the individuals claiming that these things are dangerous. As proving a negative is ultimately impossible the burden falls on the individuals that claim that it causes whatever health problems.

As for skin cancer, you are aware that we need exposure to UV in order for the body to manufacture enough Vitamin-D, right? The annual death toll from skin cancer is about 80k per year. That's roughly 1 in 87,500 people die from that every year.

Anyways, I've got better things to do with my time. Seeing how silly some folks in this thread are being. If we freaked out at things that had a fatality rate that was so small as to be impossible to measure, I'm not sure what we would do other than freak out. In this case there's zero evidence to support the idea that these devices are safe.

 

[Eddie]

honestly though, I have looked into a lot of this pseudo science stuff and none of it has cured my disease's yet. A lot of them tell you things every knows is true, like eat healthy, work out, and stress is bad for you. I don't ever invest more then a few doallars or couple hours reading into this stuff and would not recommend anyone eles doing it ether. Meditation is free and so is a Bible (most of the time someone would give you one) and if everyone lived like in the Bible I think there would be a lot less stress and people would live longer. I don't see that happening any time soon though. Just like I doubt they will get rid of money, wireless, processed foods, drugs, human abuse, ect...

Sometimes I think at this point if they do figure out something better it will be for the younger generations, that's if the older generations would ever allow that. Until then I'm going to keep watching Anime, eating pizza hut, and playing games on the Pandora. Oh, and praying :lol:

 

[Klumpen]

and if everyone lived like in the Bible I think there would be a lot less stress and people would live longer

We'd slaughter other people again, just like your genocidal heroes in the old testament / torah (king David f.e.).

Never again shall this desert crap have influence on a modern mind.

 

[Null]

 

[WizardStan]

I have looked into a lot of this pseudo science stuff and none of it has cured my disease's yet.

 

[elwing]

hum, maybe you should consider changing church... I've heard the FSM seek new adepts...

 

[Eddie]

But, I am a bundle of

 

[Ziz]

 

[Eddie]

I'm glad most people understand that books are to be read from beginning to end, and to be understood withen their context.

 

[Binky]

There's context, and there's cherrypicking the bits you agree with / discounting those you don't.

Its a fine line between them, and that line is very close to the one between being a source of knowledge and a source of white noise for our minds to project out own thoughts onto.

There isn't a single agreed-upon interpretation of the Bible. There isn't one agreed-upon world religion.

How do you tell which of the many versions of a multitude of religions is correct?

 

[Eddie]

Much like an addict not wanting to admit they have a drug problem, there will always be people fighting the truth. Sadly I agree that there is not a 100% agreed-upon interpretation of the Bible. And that is why I advise people to educate themselves as much as possible and read the bible for yourself. But even if we all agree on the reason things happen it doesn't mean that it's the truth, I personally believe the truth's have nothing to do with what we believe.

Kinda like how someone can beat you up and kill you just because you don't agree with them, and how once your dead no amount of money can bring you back to life. And how we talk about world peace when many counties were formed by killing people and taking/tricking them out of everything they had.

 

[WizardStan]

Much like an addict not wanting to admit they have a drug problem, there will always be people fighting the truth.

They fight "the truth" because they believe what they believe with all their heart. What makes you so sure that you aren't the one who is fighting the real truth?

 

[Eddie]

Be nice if I had an easy 100% answer for that one.

I will say that without confidence a person will break. And the only thing I ever felt woth standing 100% behind with full confindence is love. And in a world ware no one cares about love. Well, I honestly belive that Jesus would have to save everyone. There are no ammount of "deeds" or really anything I will ever acomplish, or sin I can restrain. Am I going to heaven, I will just have to see when that time comes. I guess I have no real hope for mankind, science, or much of anything for that matter. Other than Jesus

Knowlege will reach a point, if it hasnt already. Were people will not be able to read, test, and understand everything. Not to mention that the earths days are numbered as well. So Death is something I know I have to face one day. It's the only logical thing that I could see being true. Otherwize, I never lived.

 

[FBnil]

Knowlege will reach a point, if it hasnt already

It is not knowledge, but youtube has reached a point where less than one year of video posts can not be seen in a lifetime. (actually, one day including published media too, just read all the newspapers from all countries)

But the real problem is that you need multi-field people to crosspolinate ideas. Where biology and chemistry overlap, where computerscience and business management overlap. And the more specialistic you get, the more you know about less and less, and as such, need shallow, global birdeye people to talk to.

Like the failed glue thing (manager: Fire that idiot that could not make a good glue!)... and then reusing it for post-it.

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/385623-little-of-everything---as-we-cannot-be-universal-by

http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/1157.html

And the only thing I ever felt woth standing 100% behind with full confindence is love.

Amen brother...  And Yehoshua "ye-shoo" Emmanuel. But not god(s).

I would say the OpenPandora too, but it used to cost 666 coin units and there are references to evil dragons... and it runs daemons and such...

 

[levi]

You can see all the stuff on youtube that's worth watching in a single lazy afternoon though

 

[Binky]

the earths days are numbered as well.

Its important to differentiate between the human-inhabitable Earth and the Earth itself.

The Earth is an enormous lump of rock whizzing through space in an essentially stable obit - and it will continue to do so for a very long time indeed.

Humans will die out long before the Earth gets consumed by the Sun (or otherwise destroyed)

---

Can a complete absence of objective evidence for a given phenomenon, where that phenomenon has been extensively researched, be taken as proof that said phenomenon does not, objectively, exist?

 

[FBnil]

1. Atasoy H.I. et al., 2013. Immunohistopath ologic demonstration of deleterious effects on growing rat testes of radiofrequency waves emitted from conventional Wi-Fi devices. Journal of Pediatric Urology 9(2): 223-229. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22465825

2. Avendaño C. et al., 2012. Use of laptop computers connected to internet through Wi-Fi decreases human sperm motility and increases sperm DNA fragmentation. Fertility and Sterility 97(1): 39-45. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22112647

3. Avendaño C. et al., 2010. Laptop expositions affect motility and induce DNA fragmentation in human spermatozoa in vitro by a non-thermal effect: a preliminary report. American Society for Reproductive Medicine 66th Annual Meeting: O-249 http://wifiinschools.org.uk/resources/laptops+and+sperm.pdf)

4. Aynali G. et al., 2013. Modulation of wireless (2.45 GHz)-induced oxidative toxicity in laryngotracheal mucosa of rat by melatonin. Eur Arch Otorhinolaryngo l 270(5): 1695-1700.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23479077

5. http://www.ncbi.nlm.ni h.gov/pubmed/19 396408

6. Havas M. et al., 2010. Provocation study using heart rate variability shows microwave radiation from 2.4GHz cordless phone affects autonomic nervous system. European Journal of Oncology Library Vol. 5: 273-300. http://www.icems.eu/papers.htm?f=/c/a/2009/12/15/MNHJ1B49KH.DTL part 2.

7. Havas M. and Marrongelle J. 2013. Replication of heart rate variability provocation study with 2.45GHz cordless phone confirms original findings. Electromagn Biol Med 32(2): 253-266.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23675629

 

[FBnil]

You can see all the stuff on youtube that's worth watching in a single lazy afternoon though

Have you seen all the TED talks? Or the DBZ abridged series? Or the blackhat convention talks? There is looots more. And then there is this weird part of youtube...

 

[Binky]

There's also a fair bit of high-quality entertainment on youtube (if you can find it)