I can almost, with 90% certainty saythat the p2 should use an amd apu!


@Franko...   *sniff sniff sniff* ... oooo... I smell blood.

Why don't you come over here away from the crowds... I have something 'revealing' to show you down this dark, isolated little tunnel of mine.    :3

...*hehehe*
 
monstercameron said:
...

The community is important, so that is why growing a community should be more important, sticking to a niche is great, but at the end of the day a niche is a niche, its very limited appealing to a broader audience is the aim and saying that the status quo is okay is a bit elite and out of base. Linux and homebrew is great, but indy and commercial is where its at, sacrificing one or two devas bfor them bigger picture seems like an easy call to make.


...
Click to expand...
Not sure I followed the last bit about sacrificing devas? If we have some of these lying around I would hesitate to sacrifice them purely for the sake of saving some HLA's for the later battles... :p

chunky.png


Are you saying ED is an elitist for his stance on remaining niche?

If it's elitist for the Pandora 2 to stick with ARM, is it okay for the community that wants ARM to go and make a Pandora 2 knockoff?
 
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bismuthdrummer said:
monstercameron said:
...


The community is important, so that is why growing a community should be more important, sticking to a niche is great, but at the end of the day a niche is a niche, its very limited appealing to a broader audience is the aim and saying that the status quo is okay is a bit elite and out of base. Linux and homebrew is great, but indy and commercial is where its at, sacrificing one or two devas bfor them bigger picture seems like an easy call to make.


...
Click to expand...
 
Not sure I followed the last bit about sacrificing devas? If we have some of these lying around I would hesitate to sacrifice them purely for the sake of saving some HLA's for the later battles... :p

chunky.png



Are you saying ED is an elitist for his stance on remaining niche?


If it's elitist for the Pandora 2 to stick with ARM, is it okay for the community that wants ARM to go and make a Pandora 2 knockoff?
Click to expand...
Not very accurate with a virtual keyboard, I meant sacrificing devs. Also staying niche, just because is elitist and doesn't really make for good business IMO And it goes against growing a community. Hardware both subsidized and not is a numbers game unless it is some kind of high end custom order system.
 
monstercameron said:
Not very accurate with a virtual keyboard, I meant sacrificing devs. Also staying niche, just because is elitist and doesn't really make for good business IMO And it goes against growing a community. Hardware both subsidized and not is a numbers game unless it is some kind of high end custom order system.
Click to expand...
Niche, "just because"? Who here gave you no reasons for wanting to stay with ARM? EDIT: Personally, I don't want shitty battery life in a small package, and that's going off Exophase's arguments which you ultimately agreed with, that even your AMD APU will be not nearly as efficient.

And of course staying recessed in the wall doesn't make for good business, I agree with you there. I'll ask the question you ignored in a different way: does every handheld need to be mainstream?
 
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bismuthdrummer said:
monstercameron said:
Not very accurate with a virtual keyboard, I meant sacrificing devs. Also staying niche, just because is elitist and doesn't really make for good business IMO And it goes against growing a community. Hardware both subsidized and not is a numbers game unless it is some kind of high end custom order system.
Click to expand...
Niche, "just because"? Who here gave you no reasons for wanting to stay with ARM? EDIT: Personally, I don't want shitty battery life in a small package, and that's going off Exophase's arguments which you ultimately agreed with, that even your AMD APU will be not nearly as efficient.


And of course staying recessed in the wall doesn't make for good business, I agree with you there. I'll ask the question you ignored in a different way: does every handheld need to be mainstream?
Click to expand...
No not every handheld needs to be mainstream but it needs a good business model...in the end its all a numbers game.

Also about the just because, the reasons given to stay arm, save for power, are all weak IMO.


The legacy argument doesn't really hold up, 900 packages versus 1000s more and commercial software.


The prestige-image argument doesn't make sense either, who buys a Pandora for an arm part processor?


The dev argument is also a chicken and egg issue, with a more flexible platform with larger audience could bring in more devs.


As for the power argument, we were debating the quad core version that uses more power but in my original post I was making a case form its lower powered dual core variant, which he said would lose out on performance.
 
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"A numbers game"   -  Your game our OURS.  I take the true path - the long, hard, arduous road - but the right one.  That's the Pandora way.  Fuck x86 and all of it....I'm going to wipe all of my computers clean and start over - Linux is the way for me.


It's not going to be easy....


Not for a business, I'll do it in baby steps, but I'm tired of being shackled by this.
 
I actually like some of the stuff that "monstercameron" posts...now that I read it though and feel compelled to respond, I don't like myself...and I don't like where he's going.  It's just a bad idea all of the time...maybe I need a bouncer to tell me that hey, "monstercameron" posted something about another AMD processor that will cook a burrito, and I should just walk away right there.

Edited two letters (grammar).
 
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monstercameron said:
its all a numbers game.
Click to expand...
The very fact that it isn't a numbers game is what makes this community special.


If it were, then ED would have left all the preorders to Craig and vanished to find something profitable.


If it were a numbers game, the P1 would be considered a prehistoric piece of junk.

Furthermore, battery life is absolutely key in a mobile computer (who likes being tied to a socket?); and I have yet to see any convincing evidence that an x86 processor can achieve the same operations/joule as the OMAP3 SOC we've got (and family)

Whole device, heavy load, 2W
 
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A//www.notebookcheck.com/Im-Test-AMD-A6-1450-APU-Temash.92206.0.html


Power draw is a high under maximum load, fully stressed it goes to 21w - that's GPU turbo and CPU downclock, but idle is a bit lower, at 6.8w balanced. The dual core can be better under max load though.


Power


Idle: (measurements on Windows 8 desktop)


Power saving mode, minimum brightness, wireless off: 5.3 watts


Balanced, maximum brightness, WLAN off: 6.8 watts


High performance, maximum brightness, WLAN on: 10.3 watts


Load: (measurements with maximum performance, maximum brightness and WiFi on)


Cinebench R11.5 single (~ 1.4 GHz CPU ): 13.7 Watt


Cinebench R11.5 multi (~ 1.1 GHz CPU ): 14.9 Watt


Prime95 large FFTs (~ 1.0 GHz CPU ): 16.9 Watt


FurMark (~ 1.2 GHz CPU ): 21.2 Watt


Prime95 + Furmark (~ 0.85 GHz CPU ): 21.9 Watt


3DMark 06: 19.5 watts


From idle we can see that the system zaps a lot of power, WiFi off and display min brightness...is 5.3w, the could even be lower with an ssd and ddr3lrs. Just adjusting the brightness and WiFi that's 5w! It also seems that the GPU is a power hog over 8w draw in turbo. Max soc power draw seems to be around 10-15w
 
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Binky said:
monstercameron said:
its all a numbers game.
Click to expand...
The very fact that it isn't a numbers game is what makes this community special.
If it were, then ED would have left all the preorders to Craig and vanished to find something profitable.


If it were a numbers game, the P1 would be considered a prehistoric piece of junk.


Furthermore, battery life is absolutely key in a mobile computer (who likes being tied to a socket?); and I have yet to see any convincing evidence that an x86 processor can achieve the same operations/joule as the OMAP3 SOC we've got (and family)


Whole device, heavy load, 2W
Click to expand...
I am not sure of eds back story but he gotta be making something, this can't all be passion.

Also a counter argument can be made that an omap3 doesn't have as much performance, compatibility and support as an x86 processor.
 
ED and Craig haven't made a cent on the Pandora. They both have a monstrous amount of debt. Things may have been different if it wasn't for the manufacturing issues and delays.
 
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How can there be (another) 7 pages of this AMD nonsense in just a couple days?


Go and write some code or play some games! Find something better to do!


Come to my game thread and play my recently updated game instead. Regardless how bad that game is, it is more interesting than spending thousands more words on this topic.


http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php/topic/2829-rescue-homebrew-game/
 
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DREDD said:
How can there be (another) 7 pages of this AMD nonsense in just a couple days?


Go and write some code or play some games! Find something better to do!
Click to expand...
I am upsetting the status quo - although none of it really matters - and I am going against owners and supporters that are somehow deeply invested...and my ego wants me to believe that some people like or are interested in my apu related threads...


I have a low threshold for programming, i am still burnt out from java and Its not like I am on here all day long, I was out today recording video for an friends YouTube channel...
 
DREDD said:
How can there be (another) 7 pages of this AMD nonsense in just a couple days? Go and write some code or play some games. Find something better to do.

It's sad to see people wasting their time refuting nonsense when they should be off writing emulators!!
Click to expand...
STFU DREDD, I'm coding my emulator just fine but I need other things to do too, you go write your emulator :p

These new numbers look totally different from chippy's numbers. Something is definitely wrong with one set of them. At least the new idle numbers look better - a Temash system is really supposed to draw less at idle than Ivy Bridge (on account of being smaller and more integrated), not more. But the peak minus load methodology still fails, because if setting "maximum performance" is necessary to get the thing at full clocks then chances are it doesn't go fully idle. Unless you believe that just having the wifi chip on - not active, just on - uses 3.5W. In reality it'll use close to nothing.
 
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If an x86 or x86_64 will ever be suitable for Pandora, some big company will make a competitive smartphone with it.


Until that happens, forget about it. Work harder, Exophase. :p
 
Anyone got some real, solid data on those?

SOC power consumption when idle, and when working flat-out.
 
From my predominantly uninformed and largely uneducated perspective...

The best option I can see for 'portable' x86 gaming at this point in time would be the Microsoft Surface Pro (+ ICP2)

I'm somewhat on the fence trying to decide if it's a worthwhile + practical device for the price... My gut tells me to look the other way and wait for the next generation....
 
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