I can almost, with 90% certainty saythat the p2 should use an amd apu!

[Exophase]

where did you find the power numbers for the sammy chromebook?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6422/samsung-chromebook-xe303-review-testing-arms-cortex-a15/7

First idle number is with the display at 85% brightness. It'd use less at 50%.

 

[monstercameron]

seems that the display alone zaps 2.3W at 85%...does brightness scale linearly with power? if so then (took me for ever to figure this out darn maths 100% should be 2.7W) lets say both panels are the same then with 50% brightness that should be about ~1.4W so...if we subtract that number from the idle numbers chippy noted -dont know if he waited for long idle like anand did where the tiles stop updating- then that should be ~6.6W. That is about ~2-3W higher than the chromebook, but with -not confirmed-regular ddr3 1600, 500gb HDD -5400rpm?-, touch panel, with minipcie wifi radio on and this is the quad core version.

 

[Exophase]

Display power consumption isn't linear with brightness because not all of the power consumption is in the backlight. The backlight consumption should be pretty close because brightness is achieved by turning the thing on and off.

Forget the Chromebook, I showed that another Acer v5 with HDD, 4GB + 2GB DDR3, same display, similar brightness level, idles at 6W, while this one allegedly does at 8W. Where do you think that 2W is going if not, for the most part, the SoC itself? And if it's in the SoC why do you think 0W is in the CPU?

 

[monstercameron]

got me there, how do the c-states compare between jaguar and ivybridge? what was the clock of the IB part? did anand put the windows power profile in high performance like chippy? how does the tn panel on the 171 compare to the ips on the 122p? did anand wait for long idle with his bench and if so did chippy also do this? does the 171 have backlit keyboard like the 122p? what software was running in the background -chippy was reporting 5-7% utilization.

 

[Exophase]

Anand's tests were not an instantaneous measurement but how long it took the battery to drain while at idle. It doesn't make much of a difference how much of a wait there was beforehand. It's possible chippy's measurements were too fresh off of doing real work and not giving the system enough time to get to a lower point. Or it's possible that the the OS is just not capable of putting the SoC in low enough power states while idle, or that the lowest power states aren't that good (AMD's 1.2W numbers suggest this, and it's possible that deep sleep mode has too high latency to switch in and out of, or can't be done while driving the display, etc). It could be any combination of these things in different proportions. But no matter what the scenario is it totally blows the methodology of subtracting idle load from peak load to try to estimate what the power draw will be like on a more efficient device. It's making this assumption that that 8W is all coming from somewhere else in the laptop which is faulty.

Trying to explain the difference via keyboard backlighting is really reaching. At any rate, if it was on it shouldn't have been (don't these have ambient light sensors for that?)

 

[monstercameron]

Anand's tests were not an instantaneous measurement but how long it took the battery to drain while at idle. It doesn't make much of a difference how much of a wait there was beforehand. It's possible chippy's measurements were too fresh off of doing real work and not giving the system enough time to get to a lower point. Or it's possible that the the OS is just not capable of putting the SoC in low enough power states while idle, or that the lowest power states aren't that good (AMD's 1.2W numbers suggest this, and it's possible that deep sleep mode has too high latency to switch in and out of, or can't be done while driving the display, etc). It could be any combination of these things in different proportions. But no matter what the scenario is it totally blows the methodology of subtracting idle load from peak load to try to estimate what the power draw will be like on a more efficient device. It's making this assumption that that 8W is all coming from somewhere else in the laptop which is faulty.


Trying to explain the difference via keyboard backlighting is really reaching. At any rate, if it was on it shouldn't have been (don't these have ambient light sensors for that?)

I do agree that his numbers arent baked enough we will have to wait and see more scientific testing done before any real conclusions can be drawn, but even you have to admit that these number arent bad at all, who knows what could happen after a few windows and bios updates. Also If the systems were matched with the same components -sammy chromebook with either exynos or a6-1450- then not only would the amd offer similar power levels, higher overall cpu and gpu performance but be more future proof aswell(dx11.1,ocl1.1, ogl4.3, foss driver versus olges2 & ocl1.1)

 

[Franko]

So, monstercameron, WHAT have you learned?  You're STILL admitting that this doesn't have any promise for a P2 - which you've already dismissed out of hand as a future product that you would NOT purchase for yourself anyway.  Why bother at this point?  If your netbook meets your needs then why don't you talk about the great possibilities of that hardware platform?  I guess I'm answering your own unanswered question to yourself - you're ALWAYS looking for something better.  This COMMUNITY is what makes it better.  Give up the idea of that "ideal" that the hardware is always the best ting - you're a numbers guy, but that's a flawed philosophy HERE.

I still succumb to this - I look at the newest tech and dream, how can you not?  Keep "dreaming", but STOP the sensationalistic headlines.  I'll just make fun of you and ignore you afterwards.  You have to make yourself seem credible.  You never do, and you still don't really get IT, but you're closer to the the Pandora truth than you were a few months ago - maybe we all learn something...

 

[monstercameron]

So, monstercameron, WHAT have you learned? You're STILL admitting that this doesn't have any promise for a P2 - which you've already dismissed out of hand as a future product that you would NOT purchase for yourself anyway. Why bother at this point? If your netbook meets your needs then why don't you talk about the great possibilities of that hardware platform? I guess I'm answering your own unanswered question to yourself - you're ALWAYS looking for something better. This COMMUNITY is what makes it better. Give up the idea of that "ideal" that the hardware is always the best ting - you're a numbers guy, but that's a flawed philosophy HERE.


I still succumb to this - I look at the newest tech and dream, how can you not? Keep "dreaming", but STOP the sensationalistic headlines. I'll just make fun of you and ignore you afterwards. You have to make yourself seem credible. You never do, and you still don't really get IT, but you're closer to the the Pandora truth than you were a few months ago - maybe we all learn something...

I don't know about all that frank, I don't think I said I wouldnt buy a p2, I said I am not really interested in the p2, and how can I be interested in something that doesn't exist.

The community is important, so that is why growing a community should be more important, sticking to a niche is great, but at the end of the day a niche is a niche, its very limited appealing to a broader audience is the aim and saying that the status quo is okay is a bit elite and out of base. Linux and homebrew is great, but indy and commercial is where its at, sacrificing one or two devas bfor them bigger picture seems like an easy call to make.


What part of the title is sensationalistic, I understand who feel compelled to comment but at least stay on -or close enough- topic. Also I don't get the credibility argument, when have I misinformed or misrepresented anything I have posted, I always give links, I don't see why I am not incredible, ma ybe you can say I am as credible as the links I give.

 

[Franko]

Oh Nooo....I've gone toooo far....(Binky turns the firehose on me)...AAHAHHHhhhhAA!!!!!


At "monstercameron" are you at least reading your own headlines?



Edited to address Cameron's disillusionment.

 

[Franko]

no I dont own a pandora, not really interested interested in the p2

Didn't you just say that - well a couple of days ago, but you're sticking to your guns (as you said) and so will I - I'm not into winning arguments. Sometimes that leaves us with no winners

Own up to your own words at least - interpret them and explain them after the fact, but I already asked you about this.

You're NOT worth this effort.

 

[monstercameron]

Oh Nooo....I've gone toooo far....(Binky turns the firehose on me)...AAHAHHHhhhhAA!!!!!


At "monstercameron" are you at least reading your own headlines?


Edited to address Cameron's disillusionment.

I can almost, with 90% certainty saythat the p2 should use an amd apu!

Please tell me what part off that franko is sensationalist?


I made my new arguments, made my claim,new debated, gave links to where I found the info...


This is my ideal Pandora...and as such I am posting about it in the p2 spam forum...don't see what's wrong with that. Didn't see any rules against it...

 

[monstercameron]

no I dont own a pandora, not really interested interested in the p2

Didn't you just say that - well a couple of days ago, but you're sticking to your guns (as you said) and so will I - I'm not into winning arguments. Sometimes that leaves us with no winners
Own up to your own words at least - interpret them and explain them after the fact, but I already asked you about this.


You're NOT worth this effort.

If you are quoting me please quote the whole sentence at least


is is what I said


"no I dont own a pandora, not really interested interested in the p2 but just want to share my opinion about the product that I want"


No where did I say I wouldn't buy one...so please mock my words but don't make stuff up

 

[Franko]

You may not understand the English language maybe, or how to tell a story or form a sentence, but if you can't see any flaw in your post then you must be you.

I don't want to selectively quote your drivel, but I thought that it would be more palatable for this audience.

Making stuff up?!?!?  Ahhh....I get it now - have a good night PSYCHO.

 

[monstercameron]

You may not understand the English language maybe, or how to tell a story or form a sentence, but if you can't see any flaw in your post then you must be you.


I don't want to selectively quote your drivel, but I thought that it would be more palatable for this audience.

It is strange that you talk about drivel, do you read your posts? Either way everyone of your posts in this thread wasn't about the topic but about mocking and insulting me, are you not intellegent enough to to make an informed opinion, Cuz its all high level stuff simple enough for driveling fool like me to post about.

 

[Klumpen]

Monstercameron - A few simple questions, if you'll indulge me....  Do you own a Pandora?

There is one thing, that I wanted to ask for some time now:

Monstercameron: Do you own an OpenHandheld at all? A single one?

I only see closed source s...tuff (and indirectly jailbreaks) all over your threads about 0815-hardware for the masses,

your wishes demands that the Pandora should go in that direction and all open devices should be smashed with a hammer,

because you like your sony/apple/whatevercapitalistcompany devices with all their flaws more.

Why are you here at all?

 

[kuru]

Just wanted to mention that, yes, it's too early to ask for an X86 in that form factor, I see that. But the dream doesn't die, after all there would be no Pandora without dreaming

BTW, go to youtube and listen to Skism - Experts 8D

 

[monstercameron]

Monstercameron - A few simple questions, if you'll indulge me.... Do you own a Pandora?

There is one thing, that I wanted to ask for some time now:

Monstercameron: Do you own an OpenHandheld at all? A single one?


I only see closed source s...tuff (and indirectly jailbreaks) all over your threads about 0815-hardware for the masses,


your wishes demands that the Pandora should go in that direction and all open devices should be smashed with a hammer,


because you like your sony/apple/whatevercapitalistcompany devices with all their flaws more.


Why are you here at all?

I own a caanoo, n900, beagle board, palm pre, palm pixi, Samsung galaxy tab, ninty dsi. To top it all off I run Ubuntu on my desktop and understand the philosophies behind free software and open source...so I get the Pandora...hell my suggestion for the p2 is more Foss than the alternatives.

 

[monstercameron]

The n900, beagleboard and palm pre all have similar socs to that of the pandora, just noticed it. The beagle board is the xm so its more closer to the GHz edition than the cc p1.

 

[Klumpen]

So it just seems to be the old "battery life vs. desktop performance" stuff.

I still wonder, why the second one can be preferred in a mobile device.

The Pandora does it right.

Long battery life, no heat problems, etc... and optimized programs for good performance.

P2 should be made this way and will be awesome (if backwards compatible of course).

I trust Ed, Notaz, Exophase, etc... in these regards.

It just drags a bit behind because it came 5 years late,

imagine if another device would come 5 years late because of production problems,

it would be completely obsolete, the Pandora is not and that is a miracle of its own.

 

[monstercameron]

So it just seems to be the old "battery life vs. desktop performance" stuff.


I still wonder, why the second one can be preferred in a mobile device.


The Pandora does it right.


Long battery life, no heat problems, etc... and optimized programs for good performance.


P2 should be made this way and will be awesome (if backwards compatible of course).


I trust Ed, Notaz, Exophase, etc... in these regards.


It just drags a bit behind because it came 5 years late,


imagine if another device would come 5 years late because of production problems,


it would be completely obsolete, the Pandora does not and that is a miracle of its own.

That kinda logic would extend to things such as game boys and snes' so the Pandora really isn't all that unique in that manner. It is the more general purpose electronics that suffer being outdated.