I can almost, with 90% certainty saythat the p2 should use an amd apu!


monstercameron

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so I just found some performance metrics on the a6-1450 apu, it uses similar power to the z-60(~17W MAX system included) but has similar, NO better performance to that of the brazos 2 e2-1800. Though it is out of the scope of p2 the results are impressive and unfortunately at this time, metrics have not been revealed for it dual core variant but from a guesstimate, it will have a super low tdp and power consumption similar to the exynos 5250 while offering a modern, ogl 4.3 capable gpu (that has foss driver in dev. for the GNU free software fans).

[the a6 was using around ~8W @1ghz with 4 cores maxed out on cinebench via perfmon(might not be super accurate) and 13W @1ghz with 4 core at 60% and gpu maxed out]

from those metrics and with the guesstimate that the dual core version will have 2 less cores(obvious), lower clocked gpu, lower clock memory(ddr3L[RS?]) and they are both in a soc so it should be a decent for for an embedded use case!

edit: the 8W/13W numbers are for the entire system, not just the apu...although further more accurate testing could solidify those results.

source http://ultrabooknews.com/2013/05/10/live-now-acer-aspire-v5-and-amd-temash-testing/
 
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???

What kind of horse-shit topic (and sentence) is that?  I can almost, with 90% certainty say that the next Pandora iteration should NOT use that much power... and WHY "AMD"?  I'm just mildly curious...you seem to push for AMD stuff more than anything else that I've seen.
 
How many times do we need to go through this nonsense?

8W @ 1GHz w/4 Jaguar cores is unacceptable. The scenario with half that - 4W @ 1GHz w/2 Jaguar cores is just as much so. Dual Cortex-A15 @ 1.2GHz - which will give similar performance - will use much less power in any SoC you will find it in. Even the power needed for the GPU is apparently too high to be useful.

No that isn't similar to Exynos 5250 at full CPU load only, even if that's 4W 2x1.7GHz Cortex-A15 blows 2x1GHz Jaguars out of the water. I don't know how many times you're going to make this terrible comparison.

If you really want x86 Clovertrail+ offers similar CPU peak perf and much better perf/W. Yes its GPU is worse but no one except AMD loyalists will be willing to make this huge trade in CPU for GPU.
 
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???


What kind of horse-shit topic (and sentence) is that?  I can almost, with 90% certainty say that the next Pandora iteration should NOT use that much power... and WHY "AMD"?  I'm just mildly curious...you seem to push for AMD stuff more than anything else that I've seen.
i push ulv apus about as much as others push a15...I have my use cases and there are areas where I think x86 just makes more sense and I can understand areas where a15 could make more sense...what is wrong with liking amd?
 
???


What kind of horse-shit topic (and sentence) is that?  I can almost, with 90% certainty say that the next Pandora iteration should NOT use that much power... and WHY "AMD"?  I'm just mildly curious...you seem to push for AMD stuff more than anything else that I've seen.
i push ulv apus about as much as others push a15...I have my use cases and there are areas where I think x86 just makes more sense and I can understand areas where a15 could make more sense...what is wrong with liking amd?
No problem at all, I was just mildly curious as I said.  I've noticed that you mostly push AMD in certain posts (in the past) and I was well, curious about that.  I rarely find a person so fixated on a certain brand of chip-maker - it's semi-interesting.  Apologies for the semi-swear word.  I'm trying to reel in myself on these boards.
 
i push ulv apus about as much as others push a15...I have my use cases and there are areas where I think x86 just makes more sense and I can understand areas where a15 could make more sense...what is wrong with liking amd?
No you push it way more than that, no one here brings up Cortex-A15 in every other post made. And no one else makes threads with these obnoxious titles about how certain you are about what Pandora 2 should use. I'd perhaps accept Krait or even better Apple's Swift over Cortex-A15, the problem is it's almost impossible to get in low volume (and do you have any idea that AMD would offer Temash in low volume?)

It's simply not A15 vs x86 or ARM vs x86 for this matter, AMD's APUs are not low power enough for handhelds, they're tablet, netbook, and laptop SoCs.
 
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???


What kind of horse-shit topic (and sentence) is that?  I can almost, with 90% certainty say that the next Pandora iteration should NOT use that much power... and WHY "AMD"?  I'm just mildly curious...you seem to push for AMD stuff more than anything else that I've seen.
i push ulv apus about as much as others push a15...I have my use cases and there are areas where I think x86 just makes more sense and I can understand areas where a15 could make more sense...what is wrong with liking amd?
No problem at all, I was just mildly curious as I said.  I've noticed that you mostly push AMD in certain posts (in the past) and I was well, curious about that.  I rarely find a person so fixated on a certain brand of chip-maker - it's semi-interesting.  Apologies for the semi-swear word.  I'm trying to reel in myself on these boards.
I do push this alot because this is what I want, not for some weird fanboi/political reason, I have a netbook and I want it in pandora formfactor, and if you would like I could go over all the reasons I like the idea of an x86 handheld but I am pretty shallow.

besides I started pushing the 9W c-50 which was too power hungry, I moved down tdp to z-60 4.5W, then further down to a4-1200 which should have a 3.6W tdp, I am trying to be more reasonable to battery life and other concerns. Also the reason clovertrail doesnt entice me is that it doesnt have any linux drivers or open source alternatives.
 
Monstercameron - A few simple questions, if you'll indulge me....  Do you own a Pandora?  If not, then why the interest in a Pandora 2?  What is driving you towards that future expectation?  Are you even interested in an ARM-based Pandora at all?
 
all the reason I like the idea of a x86 p2

windows drivers

linux drivers


opensource drivers

many operating system support[windows, osx, linux, bsd etc]

very, very large software catalogue[for windows, android, linux ,bsd, etc]

tonnes of tools (for beginners and hobbyists)[glbasic, visual studio, photoshop ]

tonnes of compatibility [flash, video codecs, drivers]

Monstercameron - A few simple questions, if you'll indulge me....  Do you own a Pandora?  If not, then why the interest in a Pandora 2?  What is driving you towards that future expectation?  Are you even interested in an ARM-based Pandora at all?
no I dont own a pandora, not really interested interested in the p2 but just want to share my opinion about the product that I want, there arent many forums with people who care enough, whats driving me is that this netbook I bought 2 years ago with the c-50 apu, is both compatible and runs so many things in such a small formfactor -max payne 2 runs 30fps maxed out, I can play halo 1 above 30fps hell it even "plays" borderlands and crysis("" - means some might not like playing a under 30 fps)- and I am interested in arm but I just think arm based pandora will be meh and the p1 is now. I do like the tegra and exynos and a p2 with these of next gen versions wont be bad.
 
^ Okay, thank you for your honesty.

So this website is a place for you to dream and share ideas about what you want - in a future device then?  Maybe some of it is just the entertainment and interaction of ideas.  No harm then....I was just curious.  Sometimes I almost lose it when I see your "sensationalistic posts" and I have to bite my tongue, but I get it - in a weird way.

Edit 1:  If you're "not really interested interested in the p2", (as you say) then why even bother posting your ideas in a P2 thread?  Surely you can create your own off-topic thread concerning your own ideas on another dream device.  It almost comes across as disingenuous (to me at least) when you feign interest in something that admittedly you're not interested in in the first place....and that's your own words...about a hypothetical device that isn't even on the drawing board(s) yet...

Well, I said that I thanked you for your honesty and I do.  Good luck with all of this palaver... May you eventually seek what you want....er, and find it.  PEACE.



 
 
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And kill offbackwards compat with all the existing, custom software? All those hours devs put in, gone?
 
And kill offbackwards compat with all the existing, custom software? All those hours devs put in, gone?
Hopefully NOT.  I'd vote for backwards compatibility (of P1 software) over some other hardware "essentials" that others might choose.  _wb_ did say that a lot of it could be recompiled, but I'm with you here - let's try to keep things as seemless as possible, we're a small community - no need to fracture it even more.  I respect so much what the devs have done and I'm in awe of it - the free time spent by another to improve other's free time.  Much respect to the developers...
 
^ Okay, thank you for your honesty.


So this website is a place for you to dream and share ideas about what you want - in a future device then?  Maybe some of it is just the entertainment and interaction of ideas.  No harm then....I was just curious.  Sometimes I almost lose it when I see your "sensationalistic posts" and I have to bite my tongue, but I get it - in a weird way.

Edit 1:  If you're "not really interested interested in the p2", (as you say) then why even bother posting your ideas in a P2 thread?  Surely you can create your own off-topic thread concerning your own ideas on another dream device.  It almost comes across as disingenuous (to me at least) when you feign interest in something that admittedly you're not interested in in the first place....and that's your own words...about a hypothetical device that isn't even on the drawing board(s) yet...


Well, I said that I thanked you for your honesty and I do.  Good luck with all of this palaver... May you eventually seek what you want....er, and find it.  PEACE.
dont want to spam regular forums with something like that and you act like anything discussed in this sunforum is law or that popular vote will decide the future of the p2, You want a 5" 1080p screen, he wants an oled screen, someone else wants a brightness and volume toggle wheel etc we are all projecting our ideal p2, I just want an amd apu in mine...
 
^ Okay, thank you for your honesty.


So this website is a place for you to dream and share ideas about what you want - in a future device then?  Maybe some of it is just the entertainment and interaction of ideas.  No harm then....I was just curious.  Sometimes I almost lose it when I see your "sensationalistic posts" and I have to bite my tongue, but I get it - in a weird way.

Edit 1:  If you're "not really interested interested in the p2", (as you say) then why even bother posting your ideas in a P2 thread?  Surely you can create your own off-topic thread concerning your own ideas on another dream device.  It almost comes across as disingenuous (to me at least) when you feign interest in something that admittedly you're not interested in in the first place....and that's your own words...about a hypothetical device that isn't even on the drawing board(s) yet...


Well, I said that I thanked you for your honesty and I do.  Good luck with all of this palaver... May you eventually seek what you want....er, and find it.  PEACE.
dont want to spam regular forums with something like that and you act like anything discussed in this sunforum is law or that popular vote will decide the future of the p2, You want a 5" 1080p screen, he wants an oled screen, someone else wants a brightness and volume toggle wheel etc we are all projecting our ideal p2, I just want an amd apu in mine...
That's a fundamental change - moving from ARM to x86.  I hadn't really thought about how it would affect the community - that level of change.  A screen is just a display...an audio wheel or a slider is just a variation upon a theme here, but what you're suggesting has far more repercussions than even you might realize...or maybe you do, but I didn't.  I'm fine with the Pandora 2 being ARM-based and being as power-efficient as possible.  Maybe the programmers of tomorrow are also thinking along the same lines... I guess we'll have to see.  I'd rather keep the legacy (warts and all) of the Pandora intact and let it grow to it's natural fruition than to see another misstep.  Thank you, Monstercameron, for making me think.  I'm not sure that I would've seen this scenario for a while.
 
besides, x86 would take of the burden of porting and maintaining the software library, it also would mean if the x86 p2 doesnt have a package, the regular knowledgable non-programmer wont have to cross compile for arm but would only have to grab a tar.gz or a .deb and grab the binary solve dependencies and run...
 
^ Okay, thank you for your honesty.


So this website is a place for you to dream and share ideas about what you want - in a future device then?  Maybe some of it is just the entertainment and interaction of ideas.  No harm then....I was just curious.  Sometimes I almost lose it when I see your "sensationalistic posts" and I have to bite my tongue, but I get it - in a weird way.

Edit 1:  If you're "not really interested interested in the p2", (as you say) then why even bother posting your ideas in a P2 thread?  Surely you can create your own off-topic thread concerning your own ideas on another dream device.  It almost comes across as disingenuous (to me at least) when you feign interest in something that admittedly you're not interested in in the first place....and that's your own words...about a hypothetical device that isn't even on the drawing board(s) yet...


Well, I said that I thanked you for your honesty and I do.  Good luck with all of this palaver... May you eventually seek what you want....er, and find it.  PEACE.
dont want to spam regular forums with something like that and you act like anything discussed in this sunforum is law or that popular vote will decide the future of the p2, You want a 5" 1080p screen, he wants an oled screen, someone else wants a brightness and volume toggle wheel etc we are all projecting our ideal p2, I just want an amd apu in mine...
That's a fundamental change - moving from ARM to x86.  I hadn't really thought about how it would affect the community - that level of change.  A screen is just a display...an audio wheel or a slider is just a variation upon a theme here, but what you're suggesting has far more repercussions than even you might realize...or maybe you do, but I didn't.  I'm fine with the Pandora 2 being ARM-based and being as power-efficient as possible.  Maybe the programmers of tomorrow are also thinking along the same lines... I guess we'll have to see.  I'd rather keep the legacy (warts and all) of the Pandora intact and let it grow to it's natural fruition than to see another misstep.  Thank you, Monstercameron, for making me think.  I'm not sure that I would've seen this scenario for a while.
I was expecting much more resistance...question do you think the devs would use the same software on a newer system, would they just port amstrong to the new system or would they go a little up market to something like bodhi w/ e17? what would be the state of the software with much better hardware?

aside: just to further a point my c-50 netbook can work on the latest kernels because of the r600 foss drivers gfx acceleration, something that isn't possible with p1 and if the p2 goes pvr omap 5 -a15- then the p2 would rely on ti for new drivers and support. AMDs fglrx might suck but they do support a foss driver.
 
I'm only with this community because of my interest in ARM based devices.. I have no interest in a X86 device.
 
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