How will the battery be held in place?

[EvilDragon]

But what about, if this problem arises, adding some padding to the battery or cover before gluing them together? Seems like this would be relatively easy to do. That's really the main thing I was thinking of. With the Pandora, I had to do home remedies to thicken the new batteries I bought, and I ended up thickening them too much, cracking the battery cover. If the battery cover was a part of the battery, this problem would only have to be dealt with at a factory, and only however often the battery size accidentally changes.

The Pandora battery NEVER needed padding on top. Only at the sides.
The spring contacts go out far enough that it can't lose contact in that direction.

If you add padding at the sides to keep the battery in place, you can even throw the Pandora to the ground and it keeps running.

The battery size doesn't accidentally change. It's being custom made by us, and the specifications incl. tolerances are written down.
If they change those with one delivery, I can simply deny that and get them made anew.

BTW: The Pandora battery didn't really change the size at all as well.
The reason new batteries need more padding and don't work as good is the wrapping: The new ones were better wrapped up which made them a bit thinner.
However, the size of the battery should not be determined by the wrapping (the wrapping is flexible, so it can be squished).

There is ONE thing that never changes the size: The PCB. The contacts and pads on the battery are wide enough to that the battery can move left and right by 0,6mm without losing contact (which is quite a bit, as 0,6mm to both sides means 1,2mm space in total).
So if the battery compartment is designed that the battery fits but has about 0,3mm space on both sides, it works perfectly fine and has enough space for the wrapping.

With the Pandora, the space is about 1mm on each side - which is a lot more than the 0,6mm that it should be.
As the first batteries had a bit thicker wrapping, this worked fine most of the time, but with a shock, it still lost contact.
The later batteries with thinner wrapping didn't work at all without any padding.

The PCB width is still the same with both the old and new battery - so nothing would've happened if the compartment would've had the size within the tolerances.

 

[dsleaf67]

I would have had one of the first batches I guess since I feel my battery was always to thick. Causing tabs to break easily. Right now I have been considering gettin a rebirth case as my classic black seems to come apart a little and cracked. Worst though is that my second battery cover is barely holding on (only one clip) and the battery wouldn't even fit in the original spare battery case case anymore either.

If I look for a new case can I easily use the bottom of rebirth case with the classic top case (reason being I don't really want to take apart the LCD top to put in new top). Also, if I get rebirth case should I get new battery or older one? Is the older more prone to swelling (like mine)?

 

[diligentcircle]

The Pandora battery NEVER needed padding on top. Only at the sides.
The spring contacts go out far enough that it can't lose contact in that direction.

Except, it did for mine. Maybe the plastic got warped or something from the thickness of the original battery, or maybe my Pandora's battery contacts got corroded somehow, or something like that, but I'm telling you, the newer batteries I have simply don't make enough contact unless there are a few sheets of paper in between the battery and battery cover.

It's good to hear that apparently you can be absolutely sure that no future Pyra batteries are ever a different size than the originals, though.

 

[EvilDragon]

Have you TRIED it without padding on top, with only padding on the sides?
The spring contacts should easily compensate 1mm, and there is NO WAY your battery is that much thinner.

Besides, it would be the first unit (out of at least 5000 which I've built) with that issue.
I know a lot of people here mentioned putting a paper between the battery and the cover improves things - but it basically only pushes the battery down tighter so it doesn't wiggle as easy anymore.
The real fix is adding paddings on the side though.

I believe this is also a reason so many battery clips broke: Squeezing the battery in the compartment in addition with the usual increase of thickness over time must've given the clips a hard time.

Mine never broke.

 

[diligentcircle]

Have you TRIED it without padding on top, with only padding on the sides?

I don't use padding on the sides, but I'm talking about the Pandora booting at all. This has nothing to do with the battery disconnecting mid-use. And yes, of course I've tried it without padding on top. With no padding, it might boot with just an A/C adapter (as if the battery wasn't there), or with insufficient padding, the Pandora will act as if the battery has no charge (and not boot under any circumstances as a result). My Pandora simply cannot utilize the battery correctly unless the battery is pressed quite firmly against the contacts. It also needs to be all the way against the wall on the side of the contacts, but that's never been a huge issue for me; the thing has to be held in so tight in the first place that sliding around is virtually impossible.

 

[EvilDragon]

As mentioned, if you don't have padding on the sides, then that's the issue.
With proper padding on the sides you won't need anything between the battery cover and the battery.

 

[DaMummy]

I've never had any padding, or paper around the battery, never any problems with pandora randomly shutting down, and my battery tabs broke off.

 

[Twiitcher]

Have you tried padding the sides?.... That's not the problem.... Have you tried padding the sides? ... It used to work fine ... Have you tried padding the sides?.....I don't know why this can't be resolved... Have you tried padding the sides YET?...
/sigh

Sorry, I work tech support for an ISP and these type conversations abound...
Twiitcher

 

[diligentcircle]

ED, I don't know why you are so insistent that putting padding on the side is going to somehow push the battery down. But fine, here's a video showing your proposed solution failing:

https://goblinrefuge.com/mediagoblin/u/onpon4/m/pandora-battery/

I don't know how I can be any clearer than this. On my Pandora, no battery works unless it's pressed firmly against the contacts, and the newer batteries are too thin for my battery cover to do this by itself. Maybe my Pandora is defective, or maybe the plastic is warped from using the older, thicker battery for so long, I don't know. But it's how it is, and I don't want this to happen with the Pyra.

If you can be absolutely sure that the battery size change situation with the Pandora will never happen with the Pyra, my concerns are alleviated. Still, I think it would be worthwhile to ship batteries glued to battery covers as an extra precaution, if this is feasible.

 

[Plume]

Gluing might not be a solution. The battery might end stuck against the cover, unable to reach the contacts.

 

[TrashyMG]

ED, I don't know why you are so insistent that putting padding on the side is going to somehow push the battery down. But fine, here's a video showing your proposed solution failing:

https://goblinrefuge.com/mediagoblin/u/onpon4/m/pandora-battery/

I don't know how I can be any clearer than this. On my Pandora, no battery works unless it's pressed firmly against the contacts, and the newer batteries are too thin for my battery cover to do this by itself. Maybe my Pandora is defective, or maybe the plastic is warped from using the older, thicker battery for so long, I don't know. But it's how it is, and I don't want this to happen with the Pyra.

If you can be absolutely sure that the battery size change situation with the Pandora will never happen with the Pyra, my concerns are alleviated. Still, I think it would be worthwhile to ship batteries glued to battery covers as an extra precaution, if this is feasible.

A sign of overcharging LIPO batteries is expansion, are you sure newer batteries are thinner? or perhaps your battery expanded overtime? It did take several firmware updates to get charging working properly and safe.

 

[fusion_power]

First Batch Pandora? I have all three models and the only Pandora I had to do any kind of tweaking on was my First Batch unit, rebirth and 1Ghz unit resolved the issues with pads on the battery compartment.

Yes, classic CC Pandora. Fitting of the battery is not the actual issue, more the bad fitting of the battery lid. It actualy bends a little bit. Battery also expands when in use a little bit so this may be the reason why the lid doesn't fit well. That's why I hoped for a more elegant solution with the Pyra battery compartment.

 

[EvilDragon]

ED, I don't know why you are so insistent that putting padding on the side is going to somehow push the battery down. But fine, here's a video showing your proposed solution failing:

https://goblinrefuge.com/mediagoblin/u/onpon4/m/pandora-battery/

I don't know how I can be any clearer than this. On my Pandora, no battery works unless it's pressed firmly against the contacts, and the newer batteries are too thin for my battery cover to do this by itself. Maybe my Pandora is defective, or maybe the plastic is warped from using the older, thicker battery for so long, I don't know. But it's how it is, and I don't want this to happen with the Pyra.

If you can be absolutely sure that the battery size change situation with the Pandora will never happen with the Pyra, my concerns are alleviated. Still, I think it would be worthwhile to ship batteries glued to battery covers as an extra precaution, if this is feasible.

I already explained:
Pushing it down just helps keeping it in place better (by squeezing it into the case), it's a workaround for your issue, but not the proper fix.

Have you tried padding the sides (in the area where the contacts are, to make sure the contacts stay aligned)?
No? Then how can you claim that's not the issue?

What could also be is that you bent your battery cover that much with that additional paper that now there's much space, but with a proper flat battery cover, the only thing that's needed to make ALL batteries work fine are side paddings.

We built and shipped over 5000 units here in Germany, both with black and platinum cases, and EVERY single one worked fine with padding added to the sides, also the one that only booted up when you pushed on the battery lid.

 

[diligentcircle]

A sign of overcharging LIPO batteries is expansion, are you sure newer batteries are thinner? or perhaps your battery expanded overtime? It did take several firmware updates to get charging working properly and safe.

My original battery never expanded as far as I could tell. Actually, I'm pretty sure I never used the versions of Zaxxon that had this particular problem.

Have you tried padding the sides (in the area where the contacts are, to make sure the contacts stay aligned)?
No? Then how can you claim that's not the issue?

What are you talking about? That was what I did in the video I linked. Did you watch it?

Unless you're telling me that I actually needed to put the padding on the other side of the battery, pushing it away from the contacts. But I just tried that, too. No, it doesn't fix the problem. Again, it only works with extra thickness.

What could also be is that you bent your battery cover that much with that additional paper that now there's much space

Probably, but because of the bigger thickness of the original battery, not the paper. I only started inserting paper because the new batteries I had ordered wouldn't connect. (Actually, I first tried other options, and unfortunately I made it too thick, cracking the battery cover. So my battery cover is clearly not in a great state. But the point is, this was caused by a battery size difference between my old battery and new batteries, and it would have been avoided if batteries were paired together with battery covers.)

Gluing might not be a solution. The battery might end stuck against the cover, unable to reach the contacts.

That would only be a problem if the battery somehow got thinner, and I don't think that can happen. Realistically, the only risk is the cover breaking, but if the plastic is good (and apparently it is), it shouldn't be much of an issue.

 

[EvilDragon]

I didn't see proper padding in your battery compartment.
Look here:

https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/pandora-1ghz-edition-problem.69252/

That black padding that can be seen near the 1GHz sticker. That's where the padding needs to be (on both sides).

Makes sense if you look at the contacts. Where you put it, there's at least 0,5cm space for the battery to move, but moving left and right of the contacts is the critical area.

 

[diligentcircle]

Did you watch the whole thing?

First, I put the battery in normally.

Second, I added some padding in the form of several strips of cardboard. I put it on the opposite side compared to where you're suggesting, but as I said, I just tried putting them on the side you suggested as well, and there's no difference. (Or rather, it made it worse, because that prevented the battery from connecting even with the paper between the battery and cover.)

Third, I removed the padding from the side and added in the paper I've been using to thicken the battery.

On both of the first two tries, it wouldn't boot. On the third try (using the workaround I've been using), it worked.

 

[levi]

Observe what the black sponge bads touch - it's the long edge of the battery, not the short edge where you put your padding originally. It's designed to stop the battery moving the that direction.

Personally I ended up putting extra paper pads alongside those foam pads, because I found the motion of a bag or my pocket when on the move would cause it still to reboot. Since adding paper wadding there it's been a hell of a lot more stable. To be fair, I also have some paper on top of the battery, between the battery and the lid, but that was just leftover paper from when I was experimenting with different sized shims, so probably isn't thick enough to push down on the battery at all. It'd be interesting to see if paper wedges in the right places also worked for you.

 

[diligentcircle]

OK, I see. You said "sides", and to me, left and right are "sides". The word "side" doesn't make me think of the back edge.

 

[Twiitcher]

Resolved?

Twiitcher

 

[diligentcircle]

This isn't a thread about troubleshooting a problem with the Pandora, Twiitcher. I appreciate that, but the topic at hand is the design of the Pyra.