Pandora 2: Battery

[Askarus]

A bigger screen area is nice, more pixels is ok (but please don't overdo it! Especially for retro gaming the extra pixels are just not needed!), but the most important thing to me is to improve the visibility in daylight situations. Even with the backlight at maximum it is almost impossible to use the current Pandora outdoors on a sunny day.

Have yoou ever used a 3DS or PSP in sunlight?


The Pandora's screen is way better.


It's the best screen It've ever had on an handheld.


What about battery technologie?


Cragix do you know if there's a smaler battery whhich has about the smae power our battery has now? Is anything new on the market?

 

[craigix]

There is nothing new on the market, but over time they pack a little more in to the same space, but it isn't any kind of jump, it's maybe 4% a year.


We are designing the P2 around still having a monster battery, if it can be a bigger battery then it will be.


There was always the option of putting a thin huge battery behind the LCD but alas our experiments there showed it made the lid too heavy, annoying as it's sort of a free huge area.

 

[FaeMinx]

^ For the P2, will there still be space behind the screen for such a battery?


If so, would it be a good idea to make that space accessible for users to insert an optional second battery? Provided of course that the hinge will be stronger in the P2...

 

[craigix]

Not really, if the battery was going to go there it would have to be designed like that from the start, but the problem is the battery makes the top too heavy.


There would be no possibility of leaving a space there as it would make the P2 unnecessarily bulky.

 

[Binky]

If there were to be a thin battery in the lid, wouldn't it balance the P2 in favour of touchscreen use?

 

[Askarus]

Craigx thanks for the info.


Glad to see that most people don't want to reduce battery life.


Making the Battery as a part of the housing is a nice idea I think.

 

[TangentDelta]

Not really, if the battery was going to go there it would have to be designed like that from the start, but the problem is the battery makes the top too heavy.

What about stronger hinges?

 

[Grench]

Crazy idea time.


Have the back (or sides) of the Pandora be able to slot load / take TWO -thin- batteries.


Have each battery be able to power the unit on it's own for ~2.5+ hours.


90% of the time we would all be perfectly fine draining one battery then the other - and would find a power source before the 2nd one runs out.


For the other 10% - carry one or more additional small, slim batteries that you can swap into the device if/when one of the onboard batteries goes low - without powering down.


Welcome to infinite battery life on a super thin device.

 

[Askarus]

^ No.


I don't want to carry stuff with me.

 

[ImmaculateChimp]

How many devices DO have good screen visibility in sunlight? There's Pixel Qi but I've heard other bad things about it..

Actually, the screen on my Cowon iAudio U3, 2GB version(they came out in October 2005, I probably got mine, like, 2006-maybe early 2007) is perfectly/fully visible with or without backlight even in glaring, direct sunlight. :wub: ...I just wish I'd picked up a couple of the 4GB units before they quit selling them..

 

[Grench]

^ No.


I don't want to carry stuff with me.

Then duct tape your spare batteries to the bottom of a battery swapping Pandora 2 and make a brick out of it.


Two batteries - think about it. Run on either one. Swap them without rebooting. Infinite up-time (with enough batteries).


I currently travel with my Pandora, it's 10 hour battery and a back up 2nd Pandora battery. I could just as easily have 8 2.5 hour batteries and swap them as needed. Designed right they could charge via a USB dongles.


These hypothetical thin twin batteries would be 1/4 the size of the existing Pandora battery - about the size of a CF memory card. You could probably re-purpose the battery from an existing cell phone twice over in a Pandora 2.


Think about it... with four charged batteries in an SD card wallet in your back pocket, the Pandora with 2 already loaded - you could have @1.5x the juice of the existing unit.

 

[Exophase]

Do people really do that much on the Pandora that doesn't afford them any down time while they swap batteries? It'd be a little more convenient this way, yes, but worth the major design considerations and possible compromises?

 

[Grench]

Do people really do that much on the Pandora that doesn't afford them any down time while they swap batteries? It'd be a little more convenient this way, yes, but worth the major design considerations and possible compromises?

Apparently they need 10+ hours of solid up time - or at least think they do. They think it so much they're not willing to cut that back even if it means a thinner machine.


I consider having a thick brick of a device to be the 2nd greatest compromise they could make on the future Pandora 2. The Pandora IS too thick - by about 8mm. We need to shave it down to <= 20mm. The 'brick' nature of it is very hard for 'normal' people to get past. If the device is going to crack past the gadget nerds audience - it needs to be thinner. We don't all wear bat belts.


Dual batteries is a way to achieve both thin AND hyper extended up time. For day to day use, 2000mAh should be @ 5 hours of playtime. Should be plenty. With two banks, it should also be able to charge both at 500mA - which means it would charge to full in 1/4 the time of the existing unit.


For people, like me, who travel frequently and want that additional run time during a 16+ hour travel day - additional batteries that I can swap out and never have to reboot? That sounds too good to be true.

 

[WizardStan]

Rather than this complicated three thin battery swap thing, wouldn't it just be better to select a charge chip that can handle hot swaps?

 

[Exophase]

Apparently they need 10+ hours of solid up time - or at least think they do. They think it so much they're not willing to cut that back even if it means a thinner machine.

People want 10+ hours on a single battery. That doesn't mean they're willing to accept less if they can swap them live, nor does that mean they require live swapping in that case. Buying extra batteries, keeping them charged, and carrying them around with you is a hassle.

Rather than this complicated three thin battery swap thing, wouldn't it just be better to select a charge chip that can handle hot swaps?

Hot swapping would be a great feature, but I think Grench is talking about the ability to swap out batteries without having to plug it in.


Unless you're talking about including an internal battery to facilitate this. Something that offers about 30 seconds of charge would be plenty. If they made a surface mount battery capable of this that'd be ideal. I don't think you could get this much charge out of capacitors..


I would much sooner have a system like this than something with two batteries, where you must purchase a third one to swap and a fourth one to even match your original capacity, where that capacity is probably lower than it would have been for one battery.

 

[ekianjo]

I consider having a thick brick of a device to be the 2nd greatest compromise they could make on the future Pandora 2. The Pandora IS too thick - by about 8mm. We need to shave it down to <= 20mm. The 'brick' nature of it is very hard for 'normal' people to get past. If the device is going to crack past the gadget nerds audience - it needs to be thinner. We don't all wear bat belts.

I've never heard anyone complaining about the size of the Pandora before in the forum. It's a computer, not a console. It's like saying you want your laptop to be as thin as an ipad. Well it's not going to happen.


Plus I don't get why you want to make it a non-niche market. The reason why Pandora exists in the first place is because it's made by "nerds" for "nerds". Getting plain gamers to buy it will result in lots of consumer complaints, need for support and so on. The OP team is not in a position to handle that. They need a community that can take care of themselves, more or less.


You don't just "scale-up" like that. And reducing the unit size itself is NOT what is preventing people from buying it, as far as I understand.

 

[WizardStan]

Unless you're talking about including an internal battery to facilitate this. Something that offers about 30 seconds of charge would be plenty. If they made a surface mount battery capable of this that'd be ideal. I don't think you could get this much charge out of capacitors..

Actually, the TWL does have a backup battery feature for exactly that purpose, it was just never used. Yeah, a small lithium button battery, no more than 5mah would be plenty. It'd give you up to 2 minutes of battery-less use to hot swap in something about the size of a microSD card

 

[Grench]

Unless you're talking about including an internal battery to facilitate this. Something that offers about 30 seconds of charge would be plenty. If they made a surface mount battery capable of this that'd be ideal. I don't think you could get this much charge out of capacitors..

Actually, the TWL does have a backup battery feature for exactly that purpose, it was just never used. Yeah, a small lithium button battery, no more than 5mah would be plenty. It'd give you up to 2 minutes of battery-less use to hot swap in something about the size of a microSD card

That wouldn't be so bad. Take that one step further though - have the battery BE the back of the device. Then have two options - 5hrs and 10 hrs (1/2 and full cap). One keeps the device relatively thin, the other makes it a brick with huge active battery life.


That way I can have a thin device that fits in my shirt pocket on the plane that I can swap batteries on when needed. You can have a thick device that gets snarky comments in review commentary. Win win.

 

[Exophase]

And everyone gets to pay for a feature that almost no one wants, in addition to adding more thickness for the typical case who wants the 10 hour capacity.


Don't worry Grench, I'm sure the device will still get plenty of snarky comments in review commentary over its price and the company's history, among many other things. If that bothers you you'd better get used to it.

 

[Grench]

And everyone gets to pay for a feature that almost no one wants, in addition to adding more thickness for the typical case who wants the 10 hour capacity.


Don't worry Grench, I'm sure the device will still get plenty of snarky comments in review commentary over its price and the company's history, among many other things. If that bothers you you'd better get used to it.

So - just to be clear...


You think that almost no one wants a thinner device?


Making the battery the rear cover of the device would add -no- thickness beyond what would have to be there if the battery were behind a cover.


You claim that 'the typical case who wants the 10 hour capacity'. I'm not talking about removing that - for those who want it.


I am fairly confident though that if people looked honestly at their actual use patterns, they're rarely if ever dropping the existing battery under 50% in a 'normal day' without being in reach of a USB port to charge from. People are 'spec hungry' though. 10 hours is a nice claim. So is 20mm thin.


What is wrong with having OPTIONS. I.e. I could have a thinner device with a 5 hour battery. You could have a brick with a 10 hour battery.


Is the real problem you're having here with the idea or who presented it?