How Likely Will A Sega Saturn Emulator Be?

[#1 GameMaster]

I was wondering because I had just noticed that there is a yabause port to psp which it runs slow but it's a start. It also doesn't seem to be going anywhere else though because there hasn't been any updates from November 2008 (http://www.dcemu.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=79352).

So because PSP has a port does that mean that Pandora more than likely will run one too, but faster hopefully.

 

[CandidStan]

I was wondering because I had just noticed that there is a yabause port to psp which it runs slow but it's a start. It also doesn't seem to be going anywhere else though because there hasn't been any updates from November 2008 (http://www.dcemu.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=79352).

So because PSP has a port does that mean that Pandora more than likely will run one too, but faster hopefully.

Your topic title doesn't make any sense, but given that the Sega Saturn and the Sega Dreamcast have fairly complicated processors, don't expect one on shipping day.

 

[#1 GameMaster]

I was wondering because I had just noticed that there is a yabause port to psp which it runs slow but it's a start. It also doesn't seem to be going anywhere else though because there hasn't been any updates from November 2008 (http://www.dcemu.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=79352).

So because PSP has a port does that mean that Pandora more than likely will run one too, but faster hopefully.

Your topic title doesn't make any sense, but given that the Sega Saturn and the Sega Dreamcast have fairly complicated processors, don't expect one on shipping day.

Yeah I didn't realize that I forgot to add be at the end until I seen it posted. <_<

 

[White Demon]

I would think the P would be capabel of running one, but it would take a very dedicated coder a hell of a lot of time to code one and optimise it etc. I would also say that a port would simply not work (far too slow), it would have to be done from scratch to get any sort of respectiable speed.

The Saturn has long been the holy grail of emulation, and it will stay that way on the P for a long time I would guess.

Not impossible, but very improbable.

Having said that though, I'd love to see a Saturn emu on the P too. Just don't expect it.

 

[audovoice]

I never played any of the Saturn games but I was under the impression that there were not very many games so I don't see the point.

 

[daemonaholic]

QUOTE

I was wondering because I had just noticed that there is a yabause port to psp which it runs slow but it's a start. It also doesn't seem to be going anywhere else though because there hasn't been any updates from November 2008 (http://www.dcemu.co.uk/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=79352).

So because PSP has a port does that mean that Pandora more than likely will run one too, but faster hopefully. biggrin.gif



Yabause would actually be a horrible emulator to port. It doesn't support much Saturn functionality at all. In addition, it's pretty un-optimized; relying on the brute force of modern x86 processors/compilers to do much of the work.

The ideal solution would be to get the source for SSF (closed source) and use it's dynrec engine as a basis for a dynrec->ARMv6/NEON engine (not possible to directly port since it uses highly optimized x86 asm, to the best of my knowledge).

I was looking into doing this myself, but since I don't have the time to rev engineer the full Saturn chipset and all the good emulators are closed source, it seemed more of a hassle than it was worth.

 

[Alpha2]

There were plenty of saturn games worth playing, maybe fewer than say something like the Sega CD but still worth while.

 

[CandidStan]

There were plenty of saturn games worth playing, maybe fewer than say something like the Sega CD but still worth while.

Yet, I'm sure we will see a Sega CD emulator before a Saturn regardless of content. Someone requested a Fairchild F which I believe had about 20 games less then Atari quality.

 

[daemonaholic]

There were plenty of saturn games worth playing, maybe fewer than say something like the Sega CD but still worth while.

Yet, I'm sure we will see a Sega CD emulator before a Saturn regardless of content. Someone requested a Fairchild F which I believe had about 20 games less then Atari quality.


This is because the Sega CD is fairly easy to emulate with multiple implementations of the various processors (the Genesis procs, plus the sega cd proc [a slightly faster variation of the 68000, the same as in the genesis]). The saturn on the other hand has quite a few fairly rare CPU's:

* Two Hitachi SuperH-2 7604 32-Bit RISC processors at 28.63 MHz (50-MIPS) – each has 4 KB on-chip cache, of which 2 KB can alternatively be used as directly addressable Scratchpad RAM
* SH-1 32-bit RISC processor (controlling the CD-ROM)
* Custom VDP 1 32-bit video display processor (running at 7.1590 MHz on NTSC Systems, 6.7116 MHz for PAL Systems)
* Custom VDP 2 32-bit video display processor (running at 7.1590 MHz on NTSC Systems, 6.7116 MHz for PAL Systems)
* Custom Saturn Control Unit (SCU) with DSP for geometry processing and DMA controller (running at 14.3 MHz)
* Motorola 68EC000 sound controller (running at 11.3 MHz / 1,5 MIPS)
* Yamaha FH1 DSP sound processor, "Sega Custom Sound Processor" (SCSP), running at 22.6 MHz
* Hitachi 4-bit MCU, "System Manager & Peripheral Control" (SMPC)

You also have to keep in mind that for a decent implementation on the Cortex-A8 (a single core, out-of-order, superscaler CPU), you have to optimize the instructions from those multiple CPU's so that an entire cycle can be done in time, without each CPU losing coherency and fast enough to operate in "real time"...with no less than 5 CPU's operating at any moment, this is quite difficult. *this* is the biggest issue with designing a saturn emulator.

 

[notaz]

There was already plenty of talk about this. Not all CPUs need to be emulated at low level, some of them do specific tasks (like CD controller), and can be handled without emulating them as CPUs.
Cortex is not out-of-order BTW.

 

[bustaballs]

I never played any of the Saturn games but I was under the impression that there were not very many games so I don't see the point.

Woah. I'm sorry? What?

I play my Saturn more than my Playstation or N64. It had a decent library of hundreds of games. It had built in memory for saving games. It had a modem for online gaming. Here is a small handful of good games on it:

Nights
Daytona USA
Burning Rangers
Shining Force 3
Panzer Dragoon
Panzer Dragoon 2
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Dragon Force
Virtua Fighter 2
Guardian Heroes
Silhouette Mirage
Virtual On
Die Hard Arcade
Albert Odyssey
Skeleton Warriors
Castlevania SotN (with extra playable character than PSX version)
Mr. Bones
Shinobi Legions
Radiant Silvergun
Sega Rally Championship
Darius Gaiden
Shining the Holy Ark
Shining Wisdom
Virtual Hydlide
Maigc Knight Rayearth
Virtua Cop
Virtua Cop 2
Saturn Bomberman (10 players at once)

Then there are the dozens of ports and games that were on both PSX and Saturn (Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, etc). Also, with the 4MB RAM cart, many of Saturns games surpassed the Playstation versions graphically.

 

[kin]

Aren't most titles available on arcade version of SEGA?

 

[bustaballs]

A few in that list are but very far from "most".

 

[jakshep2]

saturn emulation is exremely unlikely, due to its large amount of processors which make it very difficult to be emulated.

 

[fiveseven]

Aside from yabause, are there any other emulators that are OS? A quick search on google reveals a lot of emulators, but most of them with websites that either aren't in english, or haven't been updated in a long time. I did find one called Satourne, which looks promising, but I have no idea if the source can be obtained.

A search on sourceforge doesn't appear to show anything either.

 

[Prophet]

2 points from me:

1) I doubt there will EVER be a Saturm emulator running at good speeds on Pandora. Someone _please_ prove me wrong. But I really don't see it ever happening. Sadly.

2) There were TONS of great games on Saturn. From the Shining Force 3's, to the Panzer Dragoons, to Treasure masterpieces like Guardian Heroes & Radiant Silvergun - it had one of the best underrated libraries ever. The PS1 and N64 simply got more attention, and the Saturn's greatness was ignored (and much of it left in Japan without localization). One of the best "hardcore" gamer's system's in history. Unfortunately Sega miserably bungled the Saturn, especially in marketing, and particularly by failing to produce some real 32bit Sonic titles for it - something that Sega fans wanted/expected and would've helped its sales, but it was probably still a doomed system (the PS1 was simply the better hardware design and had Namco and Square on its side).

 

[emcp]

1) I doubt there will EVER be a Saturm emulator running at good speeds on Pandora. Someone _please_ prove me wrong. But I really don't see it ever happening. Sadly.

straight from the Prophet himself

anyway ive never played saturn, just googled decent graphics, looks good but it wouldnt be at the top of my list (N64)

 

[fusion_power]

I know, even onto the PC there is no really useful SATURN Emulator, why should it be more easy to code one for the Pandora? :lol:
It's not even sure if we will get a playable NDS or N64 Emulator or even a Full Speed (Full sound, full everything...) PSX Emu (AFAIK every project for Pandora is still "Software mode" because of missing Hardware Drivers but I can be wrong of course, I just read "software only" since a Year...)

2) There were TONS of great games on Saturn. From the Shining Force 3's, to the Panzer Dragoons, to Treasure masterpieces like Guardian Heroes & Radiant Silvergun - it had one of the best underrated libraries ever. The PS1 and N64 simply got more attention, and the Saturn's greatness was ignored (and much of it left in Japan without localization). One of the best "hardcore" gamer's system's in history. Unfortunately Sega miserably bungled the Saturn, especially in marketing, and particularly by failing to produce some real 32bit Sonic titles for it - something that Sega fans wanted/expected and would've helped its sales, but it was probably still a doomed system (the PS1 was simply the better hardware design and had Namco and Square on its side).

Sega Saturn had one of the best Bomberman Games: SATURN BOMBERMAN! 10 Player Madness
It would be very great if someone could code a equal game for the Pandora, a dedicated (10 Player) Bomberman should be a possible exercice I think.
...And the next one codes a "Radiant Silvergun" Game for the Pandora please...

 

[bustaballs]

Sega just needs to release a new damn system with downloadable Saturn games. I'd buy a new system every month just to keep them going. Maybe they'd attempt a decent 3D sonic game if it meant a system seller.


Whenever a good portable Saturn emulator comes about, I will be there.

 

[Alpha2]

SLim chance of Sega ever getting back into hardware again and I think it's clear by now that they have no understanding of when it means to make a "decent 3d sonic" Unleashed is okay, infact they're kinda ripping from their other game, Ristar, with some of the game mechanics but they realy should just stick to fast moving gameplay and leave the ware-transformations to other characters.

Though I've been saying for months that with the PS3 and brandxbox having such online preseance they should sell some of their old saturn games that way. I wouldnt mind getting some Astal or Gaurdian Heroes action going on my PS3 if I can never have a deent emulator.