How free is the OpenPandora?

[darkborn]

That's exactly the issue with Android:


While Android is open and free, most smartphone manufacturers have closed source drivers on them. So you could not build your own optimized Android port and run it on these devices nor can you run any other OS on (another issue is the closed and secured bootloader though).


That's why so many don't consider Android as open. The OS is, yes, but the manufacturers close it down.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Linux kernel v3.3 will include (again) Android drivers: (2012-01-09)


http://linuxthebest....nux-kernel-3-3/

"Even Tim Bird, head of Intel Architecture Group, has launched a specific project for this purpose."

and according to Greg KH (2012-02-02):


http://www.muktware....android-greg-kh

Swapnil: What is the status of Android kernel's merge with the mainline Linux kernel? Any development there?
Greg: The code is almost all there already. The 3.3 kernel release will let you boot an Android userspace with no modifications, but not very good power management. The 3.4 kernel release will hopefully have the power management hooks that Android needs in it, along with a few other minor missing infrastructure pieces that didn't make it into the 3.3 kernel release.

...and Linus about the same (2011-11-02):


http://www.muktware.com/news/2860

 

[EvilDragon]

That's exactly the issue with Android:


While Android is open and free, most smartphone manufacturers have closed source drivers on them. So you could not build your own optimized Android port and run it on these devices nor can you run any other OS on (another issue is the closed and secured bootloader though).


That's why so many don't consider Android as open. The OS is, yes, but the manufacturers close it down.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Linux kernel v3.3 will include (again) Android drivers: (2012-01-09)


http://linuxthebest....nux-kernel-3-3/

I'm not talking about drivers in the kernel.


Most smartphones feature some hardware with closed-source drivers, regardless of the open Android drivers in the kernel.


Or they have a locked-down bootloader which doesn't allow to install your own Android build.


As mentioned, Android itself is open, but the manufacturers usually make sure you can only use their own build properly.

 

[TrashyMG]

I paid for mine.

 

[Link]

"The 3.4 kernel release will hopefully have the power management hooks that Android needs in it, along with a few other minor missing infrastructure pieces that didn't make it into the 3.3 kernel release."


I'll see that to believe it. 3.4 will drop, and they'll say 3.5 will fix it or some other form of dessert.

 

[mcobit]

Also 3.3 will have support for the dsp as it seems. Makes it a good candidate for the next bigger osrelease

 

[Binky]

I thought the problem was the lack of software using the DSP, not the kernel support for it


Or are we talking a neat, clean way of talking to it?

 

[ljones]

I guess when it comes down to it, the pandora is pretty very nearly close to being free and does better than a lot of other stuff out there. That's one reason why I bought the pandora, another was the ability to have a gnu/linux desktop running on such a tiny machine. But other devices and I'm thinking of (for example) the Efika MX netbook which has a locked-down propietary video chip driver making it extremely hard work for anyone who wants to put a different OS (that device comes with its "own" version of ubuntu) onto that device and have acceleration for video hard going. At least there is some sort of driver for the pandora which can be compiled.


Also from what I've read another device - the rasberry pi contains some sort of propietary boot loader as well. That may mean more problems if you don't want to use the distro that comes with it.


These things pretty much make your life harder when it comes to putting a different OS onto them and at least most of those problems don't exist on the pandora . In the case of the MX netbook it means you're pretty much stuck with the "blessed" distro, if you want to use a different one be prepared for lousy video performance!

That's exactly the issue with Android:


While Android is open and free, most smartphone manufacturers have closed source drivers on them. So you could not build your own optimized Android port and run it on these devices nor can you run any other OS on (another issue is the closed and secured bootloader though).


That's why so many don't consider Android as open. The OS is, yes, but the manufacturers close it down.

IHMO Android is a massively retrograde step and just not for those reasons. Just imagine if any new pandora used it -- it'd be at the mercy of google and there is no reason why google can't suddenly conduct some sort of "snatchback" (for want of a better word) and make android closed source/propietary like MS Windows. Or could google tell you what you have to use in terms of software/hardware if you are building those very things and demand developers sign propierary licences? You'd be at google's whim. When it comes down to it - it depends if you trust google (or if you want a more intimate relationship with them on your device) and IHMO I don't, no more than I do microsoft or apple.


ljones

 

[EvilDragon]

Oh, interesting to know... I wanted to get an Efika for ArchARM... Ubuntu is way slower than Arch, especially on ARM systems.


What video driver are they using?


Not the built-in from the SoC?

 

[Prometheus]

Also from what I've read another device - the rasberry pi contains some sort of propietary boot loader as well. That may mean more problems if you don't want to use the distro that comes with it.

Considering several will be available from day one, and the Raspberry Pi Foundation is fully supporting efforts to bring more OSes to the platform (even having convinced Broadcom to provide a slightly-truncated datasheet for the SoC), it would seem that this concern is unfounded.


Indeed, several members of the Raspberry Pi Foundation (including, as far as I know, people who have actually worked on the board), have already repeatedly said how to get other OSes booting on it.

 

[darkborn]

IHMO Android is a massively retrograde step and just not for those reasons. Just imagine if any new pandora used it -- it'd be at the mercy of google and there is no reason why google can't suddenly conduct some sort of "snatchback" (for want of a better word) and make android closed source/propietary like MS Windows. Or could google tell you what you have to use in terms of software/hardware if you are building those very things and demand developers sign propierary licences? You'd be at google's whim. When it comes down to it - it depends if you trust google (or if you want a more intimate relationship with them on your device) and IHMO I don't, no more than I do microsoft or apple.


ljones

Yes, yes... MS, Apple, Google... they are so evils. And why don't you continue: Sony (Entertainment), Nintendo, SEGA... soon, you'll become more faschistoid then those proprietary monopolistic megacompanies.


As I can see, Gnome & KDE are just projects of traitors for you, and you run GNU and GNU only. Even Linux. Multiboot? What a blasphemy! Let's put GNU counterpart of UEFI "secure boot" at BIOS to ensure that nothing beside GNU/Linux won't boot from Pandora.


Well, Linus got guts and cleverness (and he's not the only one) to say: hey, we did it wrong, branching is not evil, let's merge good things together...


Personally, I'll be glad to run some Android APKs (beside native & retro emulated) from Pandora native OS, through emu, virtual machine, whatever.


It's just that tiny little bit of half a million apps & games that (some of them) could be run on Pandora... sounds interesting.


EDIT: beside that, I found "Scratchy" AppInventor more catchy then e.g. "Pandora Panic framework".