How close does the Pyra's design come to respecting your freedom?

[diligentcircle]

Just curious. If it ends up being as good as or better than the Pandora, I could see myself getting one at some point. Compared to the Pandora, is it a step forward, about the same, or a step backward?


Another question of interest: I think I read somewhere that the Pyra's OS is going to be Debian or some variant of that, right? Does that mean it'll be easier to avoid proprietary software? (In particular, will it be set up so that vrms can detect added-on proprietary drivers/firmware?)

 

[TrashyMG]

Just curious. If it ends up being as good as or better than the Pandora, I could see myself getting one at some point. Compared to the Pandora, is it a step forward, about the same, or a step backward?

It's a significant upgrade processor,memory, GPU and generally feature wise. Some of my testing I've done on the OMAP5 devboard shows that the OMAP5 Devboard down-clocked to 500Mhz can out perform a 1Ghz Pandora overclocked @ 1280Mhz in almost any task. The OMAP5 has a Dual-Core A15 processor and currently slated to have 2GB of system ram. The other killer feature of the Pyra is a modular design, the SoC, Memory and other SoC specific circuitry are on a CPU Daughterboard that can be switched out with another future upgrade SoC to be put in. EvilDragon stated that all design files of the Pyra will be released once units ship, this could allow for third parties to make CPU Daughterboards for the Pyra.

Another question of interest: I think I read somewhere that the Pyra's OS is going to be Debian or some variant of that, right? Does that mean it'll be easier to avoid proprietary software? (In particular, will it be set up so that vrms can detect added-on proprietary drivers/firmware?)

Yes much easier, what we are currently using on the dev-boards is a vanilla version of Debian Jessie and we have a Pyra specific repository you can just not deal with to avoid proprietary things. But as far as I know I think only the PowerVR SGX driver is the only proprietary binary blob involved.

I can't find it now, but I heard EvilDragon state that pre-orders may start this fall, but he also said he wouldn't start pre-orders until he was ready to start production, mostly To avoid the mess and hardship of the Pandora Pre-order mess.

 

[Caine]

I can't find it now, but I heard EvilDragon state that pre-orders may start this fall, but he also said he wouldn't start pre-orders until he was ready to start production, mostly To avoid the mess and hardship of the Pandora Pre-order mess.

On Twitter he mentioned September as possible pre-order date:

Well, September will be Preorder time, as it looks like right now. But release will take a few months then

In other words, not this year, perhaps Q1 or Q2 of next year. Personally, I think that is optimistic and I expect it to be delayed until at least Q3.

I sure hope he proves me wrong though

 

[kaprikawn]

Is that you Richard Stallman?

 

[diligentcircle]

But as far as I know I think only the PowerVR SGX driver is the only proprietary binary blob involved.

So, you think the WiFi and Bluetooth will be libre software compatible? That's quite uncommon. Would be quite an upgrade if it's true.

Is that you Richard Stallman?

RMS had an XO laptop, not a Pandora.

 

[WizardStan]

In terms of respecting your freedom, I'm pretty sure it will be almost impossible to beat the Pandora. It had the SGX driver and the nub firmware, everything else was entirely open source as far as I'm aware. The Pyra won't have the nub problem, just the GPU, so... a slight step forward I guess?

 

[TrashyMG]

So, you think the WiFi and Bluetooth will be libre software compatible? That's quite uncommon. Would be quite an upgrade if it's true.

Not sure about Libre software compatibility... I'm not 100% sure the Pyra is using the same Wifi/bluetooth solution as what is on the Ti devboard.

 

[diligentcircle]

In terms of respecting your freedom, I'm pretty sure it will be almost impossible to beat the Pandora. It had the SGX driver and the nub firmware, everything else was entirely open source as far as I'm aware.

The Pandora requires a proprietary firmware blob for wireless, unless that's changed since I left a couple years ago. I ordered a USB adapter from Think Penguin to address this for my Pandora and any future devices I may have with this problem (many wireless cards don't work on completely libre systems, after all).

 

[Caine]

Oh wow, you're pretty hardcore on this. That's cool, I respect that. If you can find an old disc platter, you should wear it as a halo

 

[_wb_]

See also this thread from almost 2 years ago: http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/14049-respects-your-freedom-certification/

 

[diligentcircle]

_wb_, I've seen that thread, and it's a disaster. I won't go into everything (it's huge), but I'll just point out this one crucial error: a couple of you were insisting that the RYF requirements would allow something like repo.openpandora.org and PNDManager. This is a misunderstanding of what a "recommendation" is. By showing the user applications, PNDManager is effectively recommending them.

The mention of "a general-purpose facility for installing other programs, with which the choice of programs to install comes directly from the user" does not refer to a repository. It refers to something like the RPM Package Manager, or the PND system. Something that enables the user to point to a particular program and install it, or point to a particular collection of programs to install.

 

[WizardStan]

The Pandora requires a proprietary firmware blob for wireless

Oh right, I'd forgotten about that. I remembered the driver itself was switched but the firmware remained closed unfortunately. On that ground I don't know what the Pyra will do.The GPU you are stuck with, there's just no options, and that's not something that is likely to change in the immediate future, but ED had a lot of choice in wifi at least; I wonder what the final decision was.

 

[EvilDragon]

A lot of choice in Wifi? I'd love to hear them, so far I only know I've got choices in Jorjin and TI modules, which is basically the same.


Does anyone know of a libre wifi module small enough for our needs? (About 12mm x 12mm)

 

[Exophase]

Does anyone know of a libre wifi module small enough for our needs? (About 12mm x 12mm)

At this point in design does it matter? You wouldn't entertain changing the wifi module now, would you? I hope not, not for a reason like this anyway.

As far as "respecting your freedom" goes, the SGX 543MP2 is about as bad as it's going to get among mobile SoC options. Don't expect any documentation from IMG, and don't expect any serious reverse engineering effort/unofficial open source drivers. If it were a Series 6 or higher IMG GPU or one from ARM, Qualcomm, or nVidia the situation would be more optimistic. But I guess if you're okay with avoiding 3D acceleration in the first place that's not strictly a problem.

 

[diligentcircle]

I don't know much about wireless hardware, but if you're seriously considering it, you might want to ask Chris, the CEO of Think Penguin, if he knows of one. Think Penguin's whole business is selling the hardware that works best with libre software, so he'd be one of the most likely people to know.

 

[WizardStan]

so far I only know I've got choices in Jorjin and TI modules

That's more than one, which in my recent experience with the mobile market is a lot.

 

[_wb_]

_wb_, I've seen that thread, and it's a disaster. I won't go into everything (it's huge), but I'll just point out this one crucial error: a couple of you were insisting that the RYF requirements would allow something like repo.openpandora.org and PNDManager. This is a misunderstanding of what a "recommendation" is. By showing the user applications, PNDManager is effectively recommending them.


The mention of "a general-purpose facility for installing other programs, with which the choice of programs to install comes directly from the user" does not refer to a repository. It refers to something like the RPM Package Manager, or the PND system. Something that enables the user to point to a particular program and install it, or point to a particular collection of programs to install.

Well yes, in an "official RYF distribution" (which wouldn't include the non-Free branch of Debian), the Pyra equivalent of PNDManager would have to be configured to only show Free packages. Maybe the non-Free part of the Pyra equivalent of repo.openpandora.org would have to be hosted on a "non-official" server. Other than that, there is no reason why something like repo.openpandora.org and PNDManager would be incompatible with the RYF requirements.

There is certainly nothing wrong with a Pyra-PNDManager that shows the user non-Free applications if the users wants to see that. Just like a Free web browser can show the contents of the page www.microsoft.com without censoring it

 

[rygD]

Yep, because a part of freedom is being able to choose not to have freedom, or not making a decision.  

I should block microsoft.com on my network.

 

[Exophase]

This thread is definitely going places. B)

 

[comradekingu]

For including a built in wifi, the solution boils down to SDIO, where there are no options. Esoterics regarding sematical discussion is irrelevant.

If you dont load the firmware on the PowerVR and Wifi, then its as good as it gets.