mali
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@puppydee
Great work
I've started a Tweaks Thread in the help section for those kinds of tutorials and other useful info.
Great work
Ok, Motor-vehicles then. Have you seen those silly luggage carts they have at the airport? I can't believe they keep using those, I've never had a problem with my two-door Hyundai.Reknel said:I know what you mean! Are you aware that there are literally hundreds of different types of hammer? I don't understand why everyone from steel-workers and lumberjacks to jewelers and clockmakers can't just use a solid 22oz claw hammer with a rubberized handle. It works out great for me, and I've never had any problem with it. Not one single problem!
You can't compare a Hammer to an operating system, one by itself could make a hammer even if it's wooden one. A stick and the top, stick them together or make a hole on the latter to fill it it with the stick. DONE. Try doing that with an OS.
You may call it whatever would give you the most pleasure, but the fact remains that there is no earthly reason for everyone to use the same tool for different jobs.Pfft! That's not Chaos! That's diversity.
And that is called euphemism.
O... K...Take for instance Amarok, .....
So, instead of people going their own way, and building the tools they want or need, they should work together and make a compromise system that's not perfect for anybody, but is "good enough" for most?Linux could be SO MUCH MORE if people stopped fighting and being picky and arrogant.
You may call it whatever would give you the most pleasure, but the fact remains that there is no earthly reason for everyone to use the same tool for different jobs.
Why would you expect them to have trouble?Mike Fishcake said:I'd be interested to see if there are any Pandora owners here who've never had any experience with Linux before, and how they coped with setting the system up.
I don't think that the question was about the minimenu.WizardStan said:And yet, the instant someone is told "X runs Linux" all they seem to hear is "X is going to be a pain for non-techy people to use". Why? As far as the Pandora is concerned, if you were to hand it to someone and not tell them it runs Linux, just let it boot to the minimenu and let them have a go at it, they would be none the wiser, and just assume it was some custom operating system exactly as they think of the Wii, PS3, XBoxen, and TIVO.
Eh, I agree and disagree with this. I used to be a Gentoo user, I learned a lot about how Linux works but I spent a lot of time setting up my system and constantly tweaking it. I used Ubuntu once and although it did not run as fast or even as stable as Gentoo it was easy to install and much more secure and stable than going back to windows. As I have used Ubuntu for a few years I've forgot a lot what I learned about Linux with Gentoo but I'm a computer user that falls between a basic user and an expert user, so Ubuntu is good enough for me. I also just don't have as much time as I did before, that is probably the main reason.God Ginrai said:Reknel said:I'm just glad you didn't choose ubuntu. IMHO, you don't really learn anything with ubuntu. Although, I am rather surprised and commend you for choosing slack.![]()
-God Ginrai
That's what I was refering to in the other posts. That you learn nothing about Ubuntu is utter bullshit. I've rarely used anything more aside from Ubuntu but I know as much as my friend that messed with arch, gentoo, etc. I even know things he doesn't about Linux. But the fact that the guys behind each of the distros (devs and users too) keep fighting between them for no apparent reason is one major hurdle in the progress of the OS.
This is like a standard classroom scenario. If you take a computer programming class and they only teach part of the book, there are the people who will learn nothing, there are the people who will learn only what is taught, and then there are the people who will learn the extra stuff from the book.
Ubuntu teaches a GUI chapter from the Linux book. Anyone who takes the ubuntu "class" will be either the people who didn't learn anything, (those that quit) the ones that only learned what was taught, (those that know very little more about Linux than Windows even though they are using a Linux distro) and those that learn the extra stuff from the book. (Those that actually learn a lot about Linux) Ubuntu only teaches that one chapter which is very similar to the GUI chapter from the Windows book, whereas other distros like Arch and Gentoo teach many more chapters from the Linux book.
The less material a class teaches, the less the majority of students will learn. If you have learned more about Linux then your friend learned, then you are one of those students who goes above and beyond the class material in the ubuntu class.
-God Ginrai
second exodous said:Eh, I agree and disagree with this. I used to be a Gentoo user, I learned a lot about how Linux works but I spent a lot of time setting up my system and constantly tweaking it. I used Ubuntu once and although it did not run as fast or even as stable as Gentoo it was easy to install and much more secure and stable than going back to windows. As I have used Ubuntu for a few years I've forgot a lot what I learned about Linux with Gentoo but I'm a computer user that falls between a basic user and an expert user, so Ubuntu is good enough for me. I also just don't have as much time as I did before, that is probably the main reason.God Ginrai said:Reknel said:I'm just glad you didn't choose ubuntu. IMHO, you don't really learn anything with ubuntu. Although, I am rather surprised and commend you for choosing slack.![]()
-God Ginrai
That's what I was refering to in the other posts. That you learn nothing about Ubuntu is utter bullshit. I've rarely used anything more aside from Ubuntu but I know as much as my friend that messed with arch, gentoo, etc. I even know things he doesn't about Linux. But the fact that the guys behind each of the distros (devs and users too) keep fighting between them for no apparent reason is one major hurdle in the progress of the OS.
This is like a standard classroom scenario. If you take a computer programming class and they only teach part of the book, there are the people who will learn nothing, there are the people who will learn only what is taught, and then there are the people who will learn the extra stuff from the book.
Ubuntu teaches a GUI chapter from the Linux book. Anyone who takes the ubuntu "class" will be either the people who didn't learn anything, (those that quit) the ones that only learned what was taught, (those that know very little more about Linux than Windows even though they are using a Linux distro) and those that learn the extra stuff from the book. (Those that actually learn a lot about Linux) Ubuntu only teaches that one chapter which is very similar to the GUI chapter from the Windows book, whereas other distros like Arch and Gentoo teach many more chapters from the Linux book.
The less material a class teaches, the less the majority of students will learn. If you have learned more about Linux then your friend learned, then you are one of those students who goes above and beyond the class material in the ubuntu class.
-God Ginrai
If you want stability and security but don't want to learn every little nut and bolt of Linux Ubuntu is fine. If you want to learn everything there is to know about Linux then distros Arch, Slack, and Gentoo.
I look at it like this: I have a car to get from point a and b, I like to have fun on that drive as well, but I don't want to learn how to take my car apart and reassemble it. Yes, it would be better for me in the long run to know everything about my car but I just don't have the time/interest.
Oh, I thought you were glad that Pandora didn't have Ubuntu, I wouldn't have replied like that had I known that wasn't what you were talking about. I dug back in the forum when I read slack in the post that was being replied to. I'd have to agree with you about Dunny choosing slack for the first Linux. I'll never regret choosing Gentoo as my first real Linux that wiped windows completely off my drive. Like I said, I've forgotten a lot but what I did learn still helped.God Ginrai said:I never said that you can't enjoy ubuntu. Obviously since there are people that use it, there must be people that enjoy it. That's the same for the class that doesn't teach much of anything. Most people like it because it is a bird class.
-God Ginrai
second exodous said:Oh, I thought you were glad that Pandora didn't have Ubuntu, [...]
Na-Noo said:None of those are sold with as full desktop.
And a lot of people are weary of linux.
I thought the OP was an interesting question, but got derailed, don't know if it got back on track as stopped reading it.
The question was about how people were coping with Linux, as if Linux has some property about it that automatically makes it somehow more difficult than anything else. I stand by my theory: hand it to someone reasonably competent, don't tell them it runs Linux, and they'll never know. I'll even expand that to the desktop if you are ready to lie and say it's a custom file browser designed to run on the Pandora hardware.VRAndy said:I don't think that the question was about the minimenu.
I seem to remember those figures were highly suspicious.Na-Noo said:Yet all those netbooks got returned originally because people tried it, and thought I don't want linux.
Not disagreeing, just pointing out that something just being different is enough to to make people ask "how do other people" find it.Aninhumer said:I seem to remember those figures were highly suspicious.Na-Noo said:Yet all those netbooks got returned originally because people tried it, and thought I don't want linux.
In any case though, the Pandora is not being sold as a replacement for a full computer, and people will not expect it to be the same.
If people buy a phone which can view PDFs or play music or whatever, they don't expect it to work just like Adobe Reader or WMP.
Frankly, I think a proper XFCE desktop is probably much easier for people to learn than some of the interfaces I've seen on phones.![]()
They weren't just suspicious they were an outright lie. Microsoft said that 50% of all Linux netbooks were being returned but when that question was put to Dell, a manufacturer that still loads Linux as an option, their figures were much lower. The fact alone that Linux is still loaded onto netbooks is enough for any rational person to realize that the number of returns was greatly exaggerated. If returns were even 10% Dell would probably dump Linux completely as returns are a pain. You wouldn't keep sending out a product that gets returned for any reason without trying to fix it, in this case getting rid of Linux, so logically those figures were a lie.Aninhumer said:I seem to remember those figures were highly suspicious.Na-Noo said:Yet all those netbooks got returned originally because people tried it, and thought I don't want linux.
trapef said:This thread has gotten so lengthy and detailed that I suspect a few newbies with a Pandora would likely be put off by the off topic responses.
I appreciate all the experienced users views on the varying OS and flavour out there, but can we keep on topic please and actually find out their views.
This isn't meant to offend anyone, but I'm not overly experienced with Linux other than a bit of Ubuntu and am intrigued as to actual feedback.
This was never going to be a productive thread.mali said: