How About The 720Mhz Omap For The Second Batch?

[Kangal]

My answer from TI on this about the 600/720 chips was:

^ He ninja'd h34r:
Only "poster" to present professional/scientific evidence to his comment.
Why does the internet spiral ito chaos when someone believes something is obscene, though lack the knowledge to understand?
Is it too difficult to ask anymore? :huh:

 

[amf66]

My answer from TI on this about the 600/720 chips was:

^ He ninja'd h34r:
Only "poster" to present professional/scientific evidence to his comment.
Why does the internet spiral ito chaos when someone believes something is obscene, though lack the knowledge to understand?
Is it too difficult to ask anymore? :huh:

Good point. It's a lot better to do research than to just guess on something and possibly start an argument -- on something that may or may not even be true.

 

[sold]

Could part of the reason that TI have started binning their soc in order to guarantee the 720Mhz stable clock speed so they could market it as separate, "better" product to device manufacturers and consumers who mostly wont be messing about with overclocking and what-not? Or is it more likely that they have decided to lock down the clock speed in the 600Mhz version since they discovered that the little bastard can run faster so they can sell it for more?

And I just wanted to add, all this talk of making future revisions better than the 1st batch sounds kinda counter productive to me. I would've thought the point of the Pandora project was to create a device that is open and using unified hardware instead of screwing every angle out of it like sony and Nintendo seem to do with their devices. Why make something that only has subtle differences and divide your customer base? I say time is better spent on developing a successor that is a completely new product (with backwards compatibility if possible, but most things for pandora are open source anyway) and outperforms its predecessor in every way.

 

[craigix]

We are not buying the 720 chip because it's significantly more expensive than the 600 - plus we think that the 600 will clock to 720 anyway.

 

[darionapole]

We are not buying the 720 chip because it's significantly more expensive than the 600 - plus we think that the 600 will clock to 720 anyway.

thanks craigx, best answer of all

PS: i still don't get why som e people complain that the would feel cheated, when i'm saying that if EVERY first batch pandora reach 720mhz, op team could use the 720 version for the second batch so we can have 720MHz AS A BASE SPEED for programs. and i mean WEE ALL, both first and second batch owners. those who buy the second batch WON'T get a faster pandora because the FIRST BATCH can reach 720MHz TOO.

 

[Ollonk]

I was under the impression that overclocking would void the warranty....

(Being entirely facetious, btw)

 

[Creature XL]

We are not buying the 720 chip

Great news for 1st batchers
That means the possibility that "our" chips are overclockable is uniformly distributed.
For the 2nd batch it almost impossible, as some "data of the tests" indicate that they don't even run stable at 720MHz

 

[mali]

PS: i still don't get why som e people complain that the would feel cheated, when i'm saying that if EVERY first batch pandora reach 720mhz, op team could use the 720 version for the second batch so we can have 720MHz AS A BASE SPEED for programs. and i mean WEE ALL, both first and second batch owners. those who buy the second batch WON'T get a faster pandora because the FIRST BATCH can reach 720MHz TOO.

People like to make up stuff when they are bored

We are not buying the 720 chip

Great news for 1st batchers

That's the perspective of an egoist.

That means the possibility that "our" chips are overclockable is uniformly distributed.
For the 2nd batch it almost impossible, as some "data of the tests" indicate that they don't even run stable at 720MHz

Thanks for reading this thread and others :rolleyes:

 

[Kramy]

If the subsequent batches are more than $330 then it'll be a no-go for me unless there are alot more apps and development going on then to justify the cost. It's been a bumpy two years I know, but the tech is already aged and anything a notch more than $330 is a premium price to me. I'll let those with money out of their ears adopt 1st and see what's available then or even if a netbook might work as well for me.

How much more expensive are they talking about anyways?

I recall hearing they'd be $339

Heh... when I preordered, 1.6ghz Atom netbooks were $250. Now they are $320. Go figure.

 

[diegor]

Could part of the reason that TI have started binning their soc in order to guarantee the 720Mhz stable clock speed so they could market it as separate, "better" product to device manufacturers and consumers who mostly wont be messing about with locking and what-not? Or is it more likely that they have decided to lock down the clock speed in the 600Mhz version since they discovered that the little bastard can run faster so they can sell it for more?

AFAIK there is no lock. There is some information at http://elinux.org/BeagleBoard#Clocking.

So why it's the default clock of omap3530 at 500Mhz (600 is the "overdrive" mode)?
1) to reduce power usage
2) to prolong life of cpu. The manual of omap3530 state that you should expect 100K hour of "normal" use, or 50K hour when in overdrive mode .
3) stability.

Some people are rumored to have overclocked a beagleboard to 800Mhz and more ...

 

[nihilon]

If the subsequent batches are more than $330 then it'll be a no-go for me unless there are alot more apps and development going on then to justify the cost. It's been a bumpy two years I know, but the tech is already aged and anything a notch more than $330 is a premium price to me. I'll let those with money out of their ears adopt 1st and see what's available then or even if a netbook might work as well for me.

How much more expensive are they talking about anyways?

I recall hearing they'd be $339

Heh... when I preordered, 1.6ghz Atom netbooks were $250. Now they are $320. Go figure.

Hmm..well $339 isn't that much more.

 

[sbt]

The best way to alienate and anger first batchers would be to put the more powerful chip in batch 2. It's the worst idea i heard so far, and i've heard a tonne of shit ideas.

That's 'electronic' life Gibberish. It would be slightly annoying but not unheard of in this ever progressing world of ours.
I bought a 100Hz plasma a year of so ago with Freeview built in. Now you can get a 600Hz model with HD Freesat and HD freeview for the same price. Same principles.

One thing I have learnt from buying electronic equipment is buy it and don't start looking at what's available a couple of months later as you will be sorely pissed off.

 

[Mithrildor]

The best way to alienate and anger first batchers would be to put the more powerful chip in batch 2. It's the worst idea i heard so far, and i've heard a tonne of shit ideas.

That's 'electronic' life Gibberish. It would be slightly annoying but not unheard of in this ever progressing world of ours.
I bought a 100Hz plasma a year of so ago with Freeview built in. Now you can get a 600Hz model with HD Freesat and HD freeview for the same price. Same principles.

One thing I have learnt from buying electronic equipment is buy it and don't start looking at what's available a couple of months later as you will be sorely pissed off.

When you buy a TV you get your product on the day you order it, or it will arrive a few days later. It wont take 2 years. Craig and co should be luckily that we waited so long and we didnt thought : shit with better shit is avaible now so lets cancel my pandora now. They shouldnt piss us of by releasing a better product a small amount of time later.

 

[rv6502]

all 515 balls will pass the heat of the CPU up to the PCB and dissipate through the copper planes instead of getting trapped in the RAM chip and having to pass through it to the air. I have no data to suggest this will provide any significant benefit but it seems better than overheating the RAM chip!

while we're in OC and heat dissipation

I'd like to remind people that thermal expansion on ball grid array interconnects (BGA) like is used in the pandora between the board and cpu and the cpu and ram (so two possible points of failure) is part of what causes the red ring of death on XBox360s.
at some point the connections breaks from the mechanical stress due to different thermal expansion between the cpu and motherboard and you get a red-blinking paper weight.

pin-based cpu connections expand and contracts, ball-based cpu connections dont

the way the heat sink in the 360 is attached makes things a lot worst by bending the board and the 360 has very radical temperature changes on power on/off but still, if your Pandora fails after 1 or 2 years of 1Ghz you'll know why

OCing your pandora could reduce its lifespan significantly even if it runs perfectly fine at >600Mhz

the amount of mechanical stress is dependant on the DIFFERENCE between the cpu and board (and cpu and ram).
so for example OCing and adding 3 degrees going from
board at 28'C and chip at 29'C (non-OC, 1 degree difference )
vs
board at 28'C and chip at 31'C (OC, 3 degrees difference)
would mean roughly three times the mechanical stress.

(there's a lot more factors than that in reality and its not linear but you get the idea)

 

[rv6502]

The best way to alienate and anger first batchers would be to put the more powerful chip in batch 2. It's the worst idea i heard so far, and i've heard a tonne of shit ideas.

That's 'electronic' life Gibberish. It would be slightly annoying but not unheard of in this ever progressing world of ours.
I bought a 100Hz plasma a year of so ago with Freeview built in. Now you can get a 600Hz model with HD Freesat and HD freeview for the same price. Same principles.

One thing I have learnt from buying electronic equipment is buy it and don't start looking at what's available a couple of months later as you will be sorely pissed off.

When you buy a TV you get your product on the day you order it, or it will arrive a few days later. It wont take 2 years. Craig and co should be luckily that we waited so long and we didnt thought : shit with better shit is avaible now so lets cancel my pandora now. They shouldnt piss us of by releasing a better product a small amount of time later.

they announced the iPhone 3GS a month after I bought a 3G... boohoo.

news flash: CPUs and devices get faster and faster with newer generations.

if it pisses you off you can:
- mod your Pandora and install a newer and faster OMAP chip with more ram
- resell your 1st batch "collectible" Pandora on ebay and get a new one
- cancel your order so everyone after you gets a bump up
- go live with the Amish so you're not bothered by technology advances anymore

 

[mali]

^
Comparison to Xbox360 is far-fetched. There are much higher forces at work on x86.
Mod Pandora and add different OMAP? No, definitely not.
Resell? Works.
Cancel order? Doesn't fit in any logic chain in this case.
Live with the Amish? WTF are 'the Amish'?

 

[Exophase]

^
Comparison to Xbox360 is far-fetched. There are much higher forces at work on x86.

XBox360 isn't x86, although it probably has a much higher TDP than Pandora under usual conditions.

 

[mali]

^ Oops, didnt know that I thought Microsoft would use something that runs Windows. I'm no console guy, apparently :unsure:

edit:
Ok, I checked Wikipedia. It's PowerPC and the system as a whole has a power consumption of 150W.

 

[WizardStan]

they announced the iPhone 3GS a month after I bought a 3G... boohoo.

news flash: CPUs and devices get faster and faster with newer generations.

You bought an iPhone 3G. They then created an entirely new device (which looked and acted very similar) to that called the 3GS. They didn't bump up the specs of an existing device.
Any decision to change the Pandora, adding extra features or a new CPU, will result in a Pandora 2, an entirely new device which will look and act very similar to the original (indeed, Craigix said they're hoping to keep the same case mould, or at least design, when they're ready to create a new version)
Putting a new CPU into the second batch and still calling it Pandora would be as much a slap in the face as putting all the extra stuff that went into the 3GS and still calling it just a 3G. Not only because it alienates early adopters, but more importantly it makes it difficult to maintain a standard platform. Developers would have to differentiate between "3G" and "3G with extra stuff" somehow, right?

edit: corrected an incorrect double negative

 

[craigix]

You really should not worry. The Pandora2 will almost certainly be an OMAP4 and judging by the OMAP3 time line that's not going to be ready until at least the end of 2011.

So maybe you could see some dev units then and a push in mid 2012 for customers.

In other words, it's 2 months away.