Hi, Gene!

[Djoga'Ro]

@levi "I don't believe, what you say" is already a way to say "I don't believe, what you say". ? It's synonym to "You haven't convinced me (yet)". A statement like this isn't that significant. You might call it selfe-evident, since it comes from the best informed source thinkable and the source is unlikely to err on that point - might lie, but that's hard to determine and isn't very important to the argument.

"What you described, is impossible" is another beast entirely - wouldn't you say?

 

[Swordfish II]

@Swordfish II after claiming sth.'s not possible, saying it's also not accurate and not backed up by anything, is just making noise.
And, where's the backing for your claim?

I provided a peer reviewed study about flouride being good for your bones and teeth.

The other dude told his crazy views that people are simply dumping grounds for toxic waste and it's not good for bones and teeth...

Hmmm but you know what. I'll humor you as well.

Cavities are permanently damaged areas in the hard surface of your teeth that develop into tiny openings or holes. Cavities, also called tooth decay or caries, are caused by a combination of factors, including bacteria in your mouth, frequent snacking, sipping sugary drinks and not cleaning your teeth well.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/cavities/symptoms-causes/syc-20352892

Acid is not a factor. GERD or burping up stomach acid can damage teeth..but AT NO POINT IS YOUR SALIVA ACID AND THE CAUSE OF CAVETIES.

You also can't make your salvia alkaline.

This isn't the first time his ridiculous views have been proven wrong.

And yes the well respected Mayo clinic is a little more trustworthy than carefreedental.com especially by someone that believes we should all be frugivores and ignored that you will literally die if all you eat is fruit

 

[Djoga'Ro]

@Swordfish II You did. And I must admit, I didn't looked at the source you provided. But since you actually claimed not a single thing lambda said was possible, and I'm somewhat sure about one or two things (s)he said to be true and thus also presuming your source wouldn't show every said thing to be impossible (which is a very strong claim), I thought your claim under-backed. I mean one thing you claimed by that was, that it's impossible for teeth to get erroded by acids. I dare you to test that - with your teeth that is.

 

[Swordfish II]

@Swordfish II You did. And I must admit, I didn't looked at the source you provided. But since you actually claimed not a single thing lambda said was possible, and I'm somewhat sure about one or two things (s)he said to be true and thus also presuming your source wouldn't show every said thing to be impossible (which is a very strong claim), I thought your claim under-backed. I mean one thing you claimed by that was, that it's impossible for teeth to get erroded by acids. I dare you to test that - with your teeth that is.

They can be. Carbonation can do it. Gerd (stomach acid being burped up) can do it.

Neither cause cavities.

"acid saliva" is not a thing and doesn't cause cavities.

I edited my post to include the mayo clinic on what ACTUALLY causes cavities

So no it's not possible in any fashion to have "acid saliva that causes cavities"

 

[λ the β-Redex Reducer]

AT NO POINT IS YOUR SALIVA ACID AND THE CAUSE OF CAVETIES

I never said anything that contradicts this. Are you arguing against me or against yourself?

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/cavities/symptoms-causes/syc-20352892

I quote, from the page that you yourself linked to:

Causes
Cavities are caused by tooth decay — a process that occurs over time. Here's how tooth decay develops:

• Plaque forms. Dental plaque is a clear sticky film that coats your teeth. It's due to eating a lot of sugars and starches and not cleaning your teeth well. When sugars and starches aren't cleaned off your teeth, bacteria quickly begin feeding on them and form plaque. Plaque that stays on your teeth can harden under or above your gum line into tartar (calculus). Tartar makes plaque more difficult to remove and creates a shield for bacteria.
• Plaque attacks. The acids in plaque remove minerals in your tooth's hard, outer enamel. This erosion causes tiny openings or holes in the enamel — the first stage of cavities. Once areas of enamel are worn away, the bacteria and acid can reach the next layer of your teeth, called dentin. This layer is softer than enamel and less resistant to acid. Dentin has tiny tubes that directly communicate with the nerve of the tooth causing sensitivity.
• Destruction continues. As tooth decay develops, the bacteria and acid continue their march through your teeth, moving next to the inner tooth material (pulp) that contains nerves and blood vessels. The pulp becomes swollen and irritated from the bacteria. Because there is no place for the swelling to expand inside of a tooth, the nerve becomes pressed, causing pain. Discomfort can even extend outside of the tooth root to the bone.

Even your own linked resource mentions acid causing tooth decay.
Here is another quote from your own linked page:

Frequent snacking or sipping. When you steadily snack or sip sugary drinks, you give mouth bacteria more fuel to produce acids that attack your teeth and wear them down. And sipping soda or other acidic drinks throughout the day helps create a continual acid bath over your teeth.

This is what I was referring to. Your linked page proves my point. So I then we agree that acid causes tooth decay?

 

[levi]

"What you described, is impossible" is another beast entirely - wouldn't you say?

Yes, because it has no expression of doubt, it's simply a claim to the gods. Add "I don't think" to either the front or the end and you get a very similar beast to the 'I don't believe what you say', although it perhaps deserves qualification with some sources because it also tries to express a position rather than merely doubt.

As for how much it's just noise versus having value, it rather depends on who was saying it, I suspect. I dunno, I tend to leave extraordinary claims to their own devices myself, but maybe it's better if someone whose opinions I tend to trust to a degree at least pops up and at least says 'I call your bluff; prove it'. Otherwise my inaction could be misinterpreted as me saying I don't have a problem with what was claimed.

 

[λ the β-Redex Reducer]

"acid saliva" is not a thing and doesn't cause cavities.

I edited my post to include the mayo clinic on what ACTUALLY causes cavities

So no it's not possible in any fashion to have "acid saliva that causes cavities"

Against who are you arguing? Where did I say anything about acid saliva causing cavities? I never said that saliva causes cavities. Saliva can prevent cavities, but does not cause them.

 

[Swordfish II]

I never said anything that contradicts this. Are you arguing against me or against yourself?


I quote, from the page that you yourself linked to:

Even your own linked resource mentions acid causing tooth decay.
Here is another quote from your own linked page:


This is what I was referring to. Your linked page proves my point. So I then we agree that acid causes tooth decay?

Tooth decay is not a cavity

At no point did it say "saliva can neutralize acid"
[doublepost=1567887951,1567887877][/doublepost]

Against who are you arguing? Where did I say anything about acid saliva causing cavities? I never said that saliva causes cavities. Saliva can prevent cavities, but does not cause them.

Saliva in no way prevents cavities. As proven by both sources i posted.

 

[Djoga'Ro]

@Swordfish II By "after claiming sth.'s not possible, saying it(*)'s also not accurate and not backed up by anything, is just making noise." I merely meant the first point already implies the following two - at least in my understanding.
(*) or rather the statement about it

Chemical corrosion leads to cavities, of course. Or, what else do you mean by decay? And yes, as Lambda cited your source, feed bacteria sugar and they produce a lot of acid.

I'm not entirely sold on the possibility of getting your saliva alcaic alkaline, either. Though I also heard my mother preach about us westerners being too acidic nowadays due to consumtion habits - which could explain, why that study couldn't recognize saliva's claimed ability to help prevent cavities. But I don't know what to think of this acidic/alcaic alkaline aspect. On the one hand my mother is an internist with nearly five decades under her belt, on the other hand she ventures into alternative fields and sometimes relays the most outlandish claims. Bio-photons, anyone. And, I don't know, where she picked up the acid talk - or where did Lambda for that matter. @Lambda ?

 

[levi]

What's this word, 'alcaic'? Apparently it's used in reference to the lyric verse of this feller, but I've no idea what relevance that has to our teeth or our saliva. Do you perhaps mean alkaline?

 

[Djoga'Ro]

Yes I do. Thanks. I wrongly guesstimated the translation. In hindsight, my guess doesn't even seem very educated.

 

[λ the β-Redex Reducer]

Tooth decay is not a cavity

To quote your linked page:

Cavities, also called tooth decay or caries

At no point did it say "saliva can neutralize acid"
[doublepost=1567887951,1567887877][/doublepost]

Saliva in no way prevents cavities. As proven by both sources i posted.

One of the sources that you referred to actually says:

Dry mouth. Dry mouth is caused by a lack of saliva, which helps prevent tooth decay by washing away food and plaque from your teeth. Substances found in saliva also help counter the acid produced by bacteria. Certain medications, some medical conditions, radiation to your head or neck, or certain chemotherapy drugs can increase your risk of cavities by reducing saliva production.

(The underline was added by me.)
[doublepost=1567897895][/doublepost]

And, I don't know, where she picked up the acid talk - or where did Lambda for that matter. @Lambda ?

I am not sure where I first learned of this, but many sources talk about saliva neutralising acid in the mouth. Swordfish II linked to one of them, which I quoted above. Others can easily be found online. It seems to be pretty well-known knowledge, even beyond the field of natural medicine.

 

[FBnil]

AT NO POINT IS YOUR SALIVA ACID AND THE CAUSE OF CAVETIES.

This does even apply to xenomorphs (they baddies from the "Aliens" movie). They have white teeth and lots of saliva.
Now, their blood is very acidic, and can even corrode metal in seconds. So what if a xenomorph bit his gum or lip... do their teeth suffer?

Tooth decay is not a cavity

Just pointing out that the C64 SID chip has sawtooth AND decay (as part of the ADSR envelope)
If you look at the yellow arrows, they show a cavity. Where "cavity" has been defined as:
cavity - space that is surrounded by something. enclosed space. space - an empty area (usually bounded in some way between things); "the architect left space in front of the building"; "they stopped at an open space in the jungle"; "the space between his teeth".

Considering the C64 has sweet music, I also expect it to have many cavities. (indeed, all waveforms have them!)

stomach acid being burped up

When I do that, the bacteria in my mouth die. So the next day, even without having brushed my teeth, I do not have bad breath (well, except for the acid).
Ever put an egg (eggshell has calcium) in acid (vinegar)? It gets soft.