Exophase
Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.
There are threads for both of those, for what it's worth. I think the Smart Book was mentioned in this thread too.
Help Needed Replicating Success Of Openpandora For A Netbook/laptop
- Thread starter lkcl
- Start date
This may be of interest:
Atom boards
Atom boards
torpor
hack hack hack, the little machines fight back
After an atrocious experience with AI and the Touchbook (the hardware really, really sucks) I would be very careful about recommending their new Smartbook to anyone .. a pity.
Pleng said:
pleng, hi,
apologies i haven't been back here for a while - but yes, on the face of it that looks like an excellent product... and then you get into the fine print and you find that the iMX51 can only support a maximum of 512mb of RAM, it has a 1024x600 LCD (which, if ever you've tried to use for internet or openoffice you will be driven NUTS by the continuous page-up, page-down, page-up, page-down), and it's only an 800mhz CPU. now, if it was just one of those three things, i'd say "yes, great! go for it!" but all three, in one device? please don't get one.
anyway i'm back here to mention that i've found two superb CPUs - one is the upcoming AMLogic AML-8726-M3 (no that's not -M that's really -M3), and the other is the Xilinx Zync-7000 series. the low-end Zync-7000 is slated to be, amazingly, under $USD 15 in mass-volume:
http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4213637/Xilinx-provides-first-product-details-for-EPP-ARM-based-devices
more on this in a separate post...
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metallurge said:
really appreciated.
yes, considered both openpandora and/or beagleboard(s), and also, now that this is almost one year on (!), pandaboards and IMX53QSB's as well. there's an ongoing (ok, probably over now) thread on debian-arm in which many of the alternatives were discussed, and, yes, it's generally accepted that SATA-II, Cortex A9 and 1gb of RAM are the absolute minimum.
http://lists.debian.org/debian-arm/2011/08/msg00012.html
which is why i'm so excited about the AMLogic AML-8726-M3 and the Xilinx Zynq-7000. more later (separate post...)
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Exophase said:
yes - i've been talking to them. it's... *still* not out yet! and, unfortunately, their head-start that they had, back when they announced it, is slowly eroding. there are now starting to come out better CPUs...
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Custom Processing Unlimite said:
now that... is... actually very very interesting. *sigh*. at first sight. 1ghz CPU, capacitive touchscreen... and then you realise that it's only 512mb RAM, and only a 1024x600 LCD - again, the LCD resolution that just drives people nuts. there is a really, really, really good reason why the ippad has a 1024x768 LCD. those extra 168 pixels make a staggering and profound difference, making it unnecessary to do that page-up, page-down, page-up, page-down dance that wears you out...
the rest of the gear surrounding it alllmost makes it worthwhile, though.
l.
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marovada said:
it would be... but you see... you notice the TDP of 3.7 Watts? that's 50% more (total) than is acceptable for a device that is passively-cooled with no heat-sink (or maybe just a piece of plain metal and a squishy thermal pad to transfer heat from the CPU to the metal).
intel has a long _long_ way to go before they meet the requirements properly. and it's all down to the 128-bit-wide off-chip "Northbridge-Southbridge" architecture. if they knocked that back to 32-bit then they might have something that was acceptably low-power. but, because the x86 architecture isn't built that way, there would be a performance penalty that Intel would be too embarrassed to admit to.
you just can't get away from this. low-latency means higher power. high-latency means low power. in the ARM world, high latency has proved to be "good enough". in the x86 world, low latency is a necessity.... whoops.
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ok as promised i've outlined what i believe may be the best CPU yet to base not just an OpenPandora v2.0 but also a FSF Hardware-Endorsed Laptop _and_ a lot more besides, thanks to it having an on-board FPGA:
http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?/topic/60228-replicating-the-success-of-the-openpandora-discussion-v20/
the CPU is called the Xilinx Zynq-7000 Series.
http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?/topic/60228-replicating-the-success-of-the-openpandora-discussion-v20/
the CPU is called the Xilinx Zynq-7000 Series.
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What I'd do is this:
Build a motherboard that is mechanically compatible with a common Netbook layout.
Pegatron / MSI / Gigabyte
Then just order a bunch more plastic cases from the usual sources + LCDs and assorted other common parts.
However, you just be jumping into a pool of hungry sharks.
IMHO It would be better to build something specifically dedicated to a obscure niche, than a 'normal' ARM-Netbook.
(Which is going to be flooded with HW in the near future... possibly from a fruity PC company...)
Build a motherboard that is mechanically compatible with a common Netbook layout.
Pegatron / MSI / Gigabyte
Then just order a bunch more plastic cases from the usual sources + LCDs and assorted other common parts.
However, you just be jumping into a pool of hungry sharks.
IMHO It would be better to build something specifically dedicated to a obscure niche, than a 'normal' ARM-Netbook.
(Which is going to be flooded with HW in the near future... possibly from a fruity PC company...)
Series-8 said:
yes, exactly. there are thousands of bits of plastic already out there: there's absolutely no need to spend $100k on case-work for something that already exists [the lesson learned from the openpandora...]
i got a quote from a designer in china to create the motherboard (LCD backlight, battery charging) and it was only $USD 2000 based on using something like the beagleboard. however, that encouraged me to find a better form-factor than the beagleboard, origen, IMX53QSB etc. because the RJ45 connector alone for ethernet on those puts the height up to 15mm.
so i started a project http://rhombus-tech.net and we have the first factory in china whom we have done a deal with: they will be creating a card using the Allwinner A10 CPU (which is only $USD 7 in mass-volume quantities).
well, we've been waiting for that to happen for, what... 4 years, now? those rare companies that do create something commit GPL violations or worse they perform DRM-locking of the system, making it impossible to replace the OS with anything other than whatever shit they dictate that _you_ will use.
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Exophase
Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.
I'm still waiting to see if these A10s really do surface at 1.5GHz. I've grown skeptical of claims of clock speeds in Chinese products which are very often exaggerated.
Exophase said:
yeah i hear rumours of people hacking the firmware (without any documentation or advice from the SoC vendor), cranking them up to 1.5ghz and finding that, surpriiise, they don't work. the problem is that if it _is_ possible, it's necessary to increase the CMOS voltage supply. the Reference Board has a programmable voltage supplier called the AXP209. if people who are doing hacking *don't* tell the AXP209 to increase the core voltage, then of course the CPU will become unstable at 1.5ghz!
so it is not as clear-cut, but yes, there is a stupid, stupid tendency of china factories going "ohhh, it's _equivalent_ to another processor at that speed" which is probably true but still f*****g irritating.
l.
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Exophase
Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.
Do you know what process it's made on? I figured it's 65nm like everything else Chinese made. I just wonder if it's a low-leakage process or not.
CPUnltd
Active Member
There is a startup I read about yesterday that is building a competitor to the raspberry pi that is supposed to be carrying A10's and being offered at $15US/each... Looking to see where this all goes...
Prometheus
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Funnily enough, there's a thread about it on Raspberry Pi's forum.Custom Processing Unlimite said:
It's got some interesting discussion going on, at least.It's not a competitor to the Raspberry Pi, though, since the Raspberry Pi is meant primarily for the education sector, whilst Rhombus Tech's device is apparently meant to "bring more mass-volume products to market which Software (Libre) Developers have actually been involved in, reversing the trend of endemic GPL violations surrounding ARM-based mass-produced hardware" (source, which funnily enough was penned by lkcl :lol: ).
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CPUnltd
Active Member
fair enough... I consider them competition w/ each other and that is MY opinion of the two groups... You make good points about the topic in general.
Exophase said:
mmm... don't know. the chinese way doesn't really involve documenting things very accurately, although i gather this isn't something that's unique to chinese engineers
if it sells in volume in the PRC because the price is good, it sells in volume because the price is good - why should they care about a few people asking "what's the processor speed" or "how much power does it use" i know it makes me shake my head in... amused-horror.*sigh* if i get an opportunity i'll ask.
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Custom Processing Unlimite said:
yes, that's us. http://rhombus-tech.net. you're marginally off at "being offered at $15/each". i said the *target* for the *BOM* is $USD 15 in *mass-volume*, for a PCB with near-identical functionality to the rbpi. slashdot added the words "steal" and "thunder" without my consent to the article announcement *sigh*.
anyway, that module can be a stand-alone computer, yet also plug into a tablet chassis, games console chassis, laptop chassis, mini-server chassis etc. etc. we have some community ideas at http://rhombus_tech.net/community_ideas
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CPUnltd
Active Member
I will have to check out that link VERY soon...
