Gpl & Source Code - Constructive Suggestions

[AireTamStorm]

I see the need. I want that need removed.

Why, When, What, How?

The bottom line is things will improve, for everybody. Relationships could suffer.

​

I am in no way disputing the fact that GPH is infringing on the GPL. What they are doing is wrong, and I do believe wholly in what the GPL stands for.

However, I do believe some slack is in line here. I think a better thing than taking legal action immediately is to give GPH an ultimatum on the deadline for releasing the source code. Give them a chance to comply with the GPL. I know, they should have complied right from the start and packaged the source with the units from the beginning, but reckless action will only anger the rest of the community.

While I think what GPH did is clearly unfair, I do not believe we need to do the same. Asking for a little time isn't unreasonable.

Edit: This doesn't mean let them quickly take out the code that they added in, then release that, but THE actual code from the original binaries forward. GPL is a corruptive license, and will apply to ANY code that exists in the binary.

Also, does anyone know on the source status for the TiVo?

 

[torpor]

barak, honestly, welcome to the party. its cool you've got a handful of gp2x's .. it is, indeed, a lovely little machine to be running linux on.

GPH, as it has been pointed out, are very close to releasing the source code - and the SDK - as promised, as soon as they've gotten the shipping (to developers, primarily, i might add) of initial units completed.

the gp2x -is- an open-source product; GPH have been up-front about that intention from the beginning. whats needed is for them to ramp up their end of things to cope with the service side of things, because the machine is going to be sold to customers who don't care about GPL, as well.

with the source out there, an infinite # of headaches arise for GPH on the service end of the stick, and face it, as the provider of the hardware, they have that end of the stick coming to them whether they like it or not; it will be customers complaining about gnarfed kernels not running their commercial games, to them, not you.

what GPH are doing, its clear among this community, is working their ass off to get hardware to cool developers. this is why you have a handful of them, no doubt. the GPL/community-dev scene is to be followed up with a push to promote OSS-friendly game development; it has always been a fundamental point in the GPH 'splinter', even, and is obvious .. and there is little doubt, its 100%, that the GP2X kernel/code will be released/supplanted by the open2x effort, fairly rapidly. perhaps GPH are counting on us dev'ers who have units, in these next few weeks, to get the open2x scene fully rolling, so that there are in fact few issues with kernel/config compatability screwups between different camps trying to dominate the same hardware platform ..

the reason this community has such trust in GPH, is that these are among the people who have done it before: with the GP32.

so please, i ask of you, have patience on this GPL issue, and don't just bust in and start taking names, throwing chairs, etc. participate. there are tons of GPL-savvy types salivating over the GP2X right now, honest. GPH will get on top of their kernel release.

and in the meantime, if you can think of any good things to do with your handful of units, maybe you wanna just do it ..

 

[Cyclops]

The argument against intellectual property doesn't work the second you have somone whos intellectual property has been taken and maskeraded as their own. Thats what is do unique about this thread, and someone who demands that such IP is shared, and has suggested a way of enforcing it.

If there is a chance of GPH ever quitting the handheld buisness, then to me its more important to get the source, not less. Although in reality you can see that they are going to have some success with this little baby, and more likely to be a success if the sources are opened.

Like I say I can only see good for everyone. I can't see them releasing the source, if they put so much stock in their IP, rather than their relationship with the community and good marketing with a product to back it up.

 

[Winterkid]

I'm sure Mr. Pearlmutter is a brilliant man with an IQ to rival most of the highest programmers out there. I'm not a programmer, I can't read code, I don't see all the notices of who contributes to what.

Until this day, that name didn't cross my eyes. If he were to join this community and indeed has a couple of GP2X's, I think the community would benefit greatly. He'd probably get his own donation link in a very short time. When I'm wrong I DO like to think I can admit it. Not easy to do, but I can admit when I'm wrong.

Cyclops has valid points, and is eager for something, so he's fighting for it. I know that.
Barak Pearlmutter is a major contributor to GPL linux, and has a vested interest in making sure that his code is treated with the respect it deserves under the license.

I apologise for automatically assuming that "barak_pearlmutter" was Cyclops.
I apologise for wording my post in a way that made people angry or even upset.

I want GPH and the 2X to do well as much as anyone here, and if you blame me for the way I think or speak, there's little I can do about that.

 

[Vimacs]

Things you seem to forget is that gph is actualy a "3 man company" they only have one coder, who also designs the hardware.
They are likely working thair ass of 24/7.
At the beginning they thought mse didnt gave them the right to release anything, this seems to have changed now and gph promised to release the source after some cleaning.
That that can take a while is clear, as, as you know, the firmware is still full of bugs that have to eb fixed, and they seem to prefer fixing the bugs prior to releasing, understandable.
Of course i can understand that some people are upset (even when not the half of them could understand the code anyway), but pleas have a bit of patience, the issues will be solved.

 

[codeninja]

I am an english speaker thats why I chose those words, a lawer is very effective, and I have no doubt will get the source code. Is it the best solution? No, but its looking like the only one.

​

Hello an English speaker who cannot spell lawyer right. Yes, law(y)ers are very effective in many ways, and one of them is to put small business in bankruptcy with litigations, and sucking up their clients with legal fees and walking out as the only winner in the lawsuit. Oh, I'm not an English speaker, BTW.

 

[cheap-plastic]

Things you seem to forget is that gph is actualy a "3 man company" they only have one coder, who also designs the hardware.
They are likely working thair ass of 24/7.
At the beginning they thought mse didnt gave them the right to release anything, this seems to have changed now and gph promised to release the source after some cleaning.
That that can take a while is clear, as, as you know, the firmware is still full of bugs that have to eb fixed, and they seem to prefer fixing the bugs prior to releasing, understandable.
Of course i can understand that some people are upset (even when not the half of them could understand the code anyway), but pleas have a bit of patience, the issues will be solved.

​

Why doesn't GPH tell that they're are working on releasing it within some months? It just seems like they don't care about the GPL atm.

 

[codeninja]

Just checking arn't you the one who did all those translations. I believe lik-sang quote you as a reliable source

​

Yes, I did translate stuffs from Korean websites because peoples were curious what's going on right after Korean release. So what exactly are you trying to say here? Did I make stuffs up, or it's my fault that lik-sang released such a statement? Either way, I cannot agree with you at all. And, I do believe that I am a reliable source because I do my own fact checks.

 

[codeninja]

Why doesn't GPH tell that they're are working on releasing it within some months? It just seems like they don't care about the GPL atm.

​

They've been saying it on their Korean website's Q&A section many times this month alone. Go learn Korean and do your fact checking.

 

[abigsmurf]

God why don't people give them a chance to get the code sorted? Do we want countless amounts of uncommented/badly commented, badly organised code or do we want stuff that can actually be used?

This doesn't mean let them quickly take out the code that they added in, then release that, but THE actual code from the original binaries forward. GPL is a corruptive license, and will apply to ANY code that exists in the binary.

extract from the GPL:

If
identifiable sections of that work are not derived from the Program,
and can be reasonably considered independent and separate works in
themselves, then this License, and its terms, do not apply to those
sections when you distribute them as separate works.

anything they've programmed which isn't just an extension or modification of GPL code they're not forced to release.

also the GPL doesn't give a timeframe for making code available, only that it must be made available. They're also well within their rights to only offer hard copies which they could charge 'cost' for

 

[OrR]

I am an english speaker thats why I chose those words, a lawer is very effective, and I have no doubt will get the source code. Is it the best solution? No, but its looking like the only one.

​

Hello an English speaker who cannot spell lawyer right. Yes, law(y)ers are very effective in many ways, and one of them is to put small business in bankruptcy with litigations, and sucking up their clients with legal fees and walking out as the only winner in the lawsuit. Oh, I'm not an English speaker, BTW.

​

It is a known internet fact that native English speakers generally spell worse than people learning English as a second (or third or whatever :blink: ) language.

 

[codesmith]

/* The source Barak Pearlmutter contributed to linux */

/*
* NET3: Garbage Collector For AF_UNIX sockets
*
* Garbage Collector:
* Copyright © Barak A. Pearlmutter.
* Released under the GPL version 2 or later.
*

... bunch of C code ...

Cyclops did NOT invent this person, and he does have standing.
Instead of spouting stupidities, we should welcome him to the community. Period.

​

Well, that's quite something. This gentleman adds a couple hundred lines of code to the Linux kernel (networking code, which isn't even used by the gp2x so it probably isn't even compiled into the kernels that the gp2x comes with - and that's a *very* small part of the networking stack in any case), and he feels completely entitled to come in and start threatening with lawsuits. When Alan Cox comes in here demanding source code I'll back him up, this guy can go take a hike.
I think I should contribute my fortune cookie program to the Gnome project, that way I'll also "have standing" and be fully justified in bringing these criminals to justice </sarcasm>

 

[OrR]

/* The source Barak Pearlmutter contributed to linux */

/*
* NET3: Garbage Collector For AF_UNIX sockets
*
* Garbage Collector:
* Copyright © Barak A. Pearlmutter.
* Released under the GPL version 2 or later.
*

... bunch of C code ...

Cyclops did NOT invent this person, and he does have standing.
Instead of spouting stupidities, we should welcome him to the community. Period.

​

Well, that's quite something. This gentleman adds a couple hundred lines of code to the Linux kernel (networking code, which isn't even used by the gp2x so it probably isn't even compiled into the kernels that the gp2x comes with - and that's a *very* small part of the networking stack in any case), and he feels completely entitled to come in and start threatening with lawsuits.

​

He is. GPH IS violating his copyright.

 

[Oscaruzzo]

/* The source Barak Pearlmutter contributed to linux */

/*
* NET3: Garbage Collector For AF_UNIX sockets
*
* Garbage Collector:
* Copyright © Barak A. Pearlmutter.
* Released under the GPL version 2 or later.
*

... bunch of C code ...

Well, that's quite something. This gentleman adds a couple hundred lines of code to the Linux kernel (networking code, which isn't even used by the gp2x so it probably isn't even compiled into the kernels that the gp2x comes with - and that's a *very* small part of the networking stack in any case), and he feels completely entitled to come in and start threatening with lawsuits.

​

As you surely know, AF_UNIX sockets have almost nothing to do with networks, since they are filesystem entities, used by local processes to talk each other.

 

[codesmith]

So suing them is the only thing he can come up with? WTF happened to dialog?

 

[codesmith]

As you surely know, AF_UNIX sockets have almost nothing to do with networks, since they are filesystem entities, used by local processes to talk each other.

​

Still doesn't remove the fact that this guy's work is just a tiny (a lot smaller than 1) percent of what we call Linux, and it's only there because someone else (Alan Cox) did all the hard work of integrating it into the kernel. As someone who tried to get a patch into GCC, I can tell you that writing the original code is peanuts compared to what it takes to get it integrated in (I eventually gave up because someone else contributed an almost identical feature first). His contribution is small enough to be practically insignificant, and yet the first thing he does when he gets his consoles is to come in looking to sue someone. THAT is whats gets me.

 

[abigsmurf]

This Barak A. Pearlmutter is not in a position to sue GPH. Is he korean? Does he have a business registered in Korea? I'd doubt it. That makes it next to impossible to begin legal proceedings.

Not to mention the fact the GPL itself is legally questionable by most copyright laws and has only had limited testing. Most countries require you to actively protect your copyright in order to have legal protection. Afterall you can't let your protected product get put in millions of homes over a course of a few years sitting back, letting it happen then suddenly issue millions of lawsuits. The GPL allows the code to move freely and be copied as much as you want, somewhat complicating things under copyright law.

 

[WrongEyedJesus]

Am I the only one that finds it slightly scary that 'Barak A. Pearlmutter' is an anagram of 'Alert up-market Arab.' ?

As ever I hope to bring a degree of fatuous ignorance to a subject that is clearly beyond my comprehension.

Thanking you kindly.

 

[DJWillis]

Please people, can I politely request a little bit of a deep breath and a moment of calm.

This thread has all the potential to degenerate further and I want no part of that .

I am posting to request a personal favour and that is that people stop sending me PM’s or e-mail’s either insulting my ability, being generally unpleasant or informing me of there personal take on the situation or the finer points of the GPL. I did not embark on this to single myself out for criticism and I have no motives other then to resolve this matter as quickly and reasonably as possible for the benifit of all parties.

I am very aware that this is an emotive subject and that my approach does not show enough force for everybody’s taste. This approach has served me well previously (MagicEyes where very helpful in becoming compliant with the terms of the GPL after the situation was brought to the attention of the correct parties). It is also an approach that matches my nature and one I will continue to follow.

I have nothing to prove in this area and all the effort I have been expending on this matter is for the benefit of the community growing up around the device. I am also well versed in on the points of the GPL (no expert by any means) and my approach has been formulated in discussion with people who do understand the GPL fully and have been involved in cases previously regarding its enforcement as both legal and laypersons.

Can people also understand that Mr Pearlmutter’s case and grievance is 100% valid and he is very keen to see GPH comply with the terms of the GPL as am I.

Discussion on this matter has been taken off the forum and I can assure people that substantial combined energies are being put into resolving this as quickly and reasonably as possible.

 

[OrR]

This Barak A. Pearlmutter is not in a position to sue GPH. Is he korean? Does he have a business registered in Korea? I'd doubt it. That makes it next to impossible to begin legal proceedings.

Not to mention the fact the GPL itself is legally questionable by most copyright laws and has only had limited testing. Most countries require you to actively protect your copyright in order to have legal protection. Afterall you can't let your protected product get put in millions of homes over a course of a few years sitting back, letting it happen then suddenly issue millions of lawsuits. The GPL allows the code to move freely and be copied as much as you want, somewhat complicating things under copyright law.

​

That stuff about protecting is only true for trademarks. Copyright violation is always copyright violation. And I'm pretty sure Korean law honors international copyrights. You obviously don't get how the GPL works.

Am I the only one that finds it slightly scary that 'Barak A. Pearlmutter' is an anagram of 'Alert up-market Arab.' ?

​

Yes. :blink: :huh: :lol: