Google Stadia

[Askarus]

I had made so much bad experience with my internet connection.
Recently I was playing an MOBA on my Switch.
Whenever there was an issue with the router and I could not play for some reason I was pretty angerd.
I do not want to rely on the Internet for my gaming as much as posible.

 

[levi]

You just reminded me of the early revolution in 3D games. There were many years of really crap games (and franchises crowbarred in to 3D) before they finally started to manage to get it right.

Kind of off topic for this thread (but I get the feeling we've pretty much covered all bases given what we know about the device thus far anyway), but can you name any of the franchises that died due to being converted to 3D and failing? Maybe I've just forgotten about them because they died so long ago now. All I can think of readily are games like Duke Nukem that made the jump but fell apart afterwards for other reasons.

 

[ClockworkCoder]

@levi Actually I'm not sure if I can think of many examples... early tank controls and bad cameras were what I had in mind.

Sonic didn't transition too well to 3D in my opinion:

/off-topic

 

[Silent-Hunter]

They don't know colour of my underwear yet

More seriously I have stopped using anything google from some time. I use lineage os on my phone ( until I get ), and replaced gmail with protonmail. I don't plan to add any google service now.

I still use Google Play Music. I don't use Google directly for anything else anymore. Except youtube but I use gtk-youtube-viewer for that and I don't log in.
[doublepost=1553111858,1553111802][/doublepost]

This. I am out... have fun renting a bunch of hot air. Might be nice for people who don't care about owning their games or hardware, but I would like to stay in control.

Probably nice for people who want to play AAA titles online, but who in their right mind would want to be tethered to a streaming service if they play competetive online games?

I think it will be nice to try before you buy. Basically use Stadia to see how a game plays, or to play it when you aren't at home, but then buy it on another platform if you like it enough.

 

[ClockworkCoder]

Is there any indication of the cost of it yet?

 

[Silent-Hunter]

Is there any indication of the cost of it yet?

No but people won't get it if it's too expensive, so it'll likely be a monthly fee like their music service.

 

[levi]

@levi Actually I'm not sure if I can think of many examples... early tank controls and bad cameras were what I had in mind.

Sonic didn't transition too well to 3D in my opinion:
/off-topic

Yeah, Sonic is a good shout. I was actually quite a big fan of the first Sonic Adventure at the time. Although the homing attack made gameplay a little too simple, I liked the way the different character stories hit the same notes from different perspectives. By the time Sonic Adventure 2 came around though, the shine had worn off, and the annoying characters and lack of challenge were too much for me, and I've not seriously gone back and replayed the first one yet.

 

[FBnil]

to help mitigate latency issues. Probably most people will barely notice (or even care) if it's small enough.

There are tricks to mitigate latency issues. But you need a local machine to predict. With only a controller, you will really need to wait for the server information.

An example: pressing the fire button. Send to server, get "PEW" audio back in the audio stream.

 

[levi]

Given the infrastructure that google has, I'd expect for many of us the code's actually going to be run on a server in your nearest metropole. Ping roundtrip should be less than the blink of an eye (probably sub 50ms for most people, while the blink of a human eye is 300ms and up)

 

[ElPoco]

A former colleague of mine founded the company behind Shadow a service that offers access to a powerful remote Windows PC for a monthly fee. They did their best to reduce latency as much as possible and with a fiber optic connection the latency is hard to detect, unless maybe you're playing a fighting game where you need frame-level precision.

 

[benoitb]

Given the infrastructure that google has, I'd expect for many of us the code's actually going to be run on a server in your nearest metropole. Ping roundtrip should be less than the blink of an eye (probably sub 50ms for most people, while the blink of a human eye is 300ms and up)

We don't blink while gaming.

A former colleague of mine founded the company behind Shadow a service that offers access to a powerful remote Windows PC for a monthly fee. They did their best to reduce latency as much as possible and with a fiber optic connection the latency is hard to detect, unless maybe you're playing a fighting game where you need frame-level precision.

Or a rythm game like Project Diva, or a competitive fast paced game like Rocket League, etc...

It's no wonder they use Assassin's Creed to demonstrate the service.

 

[Thorgan]

Honestly, I don't think the whole cloud thing is the future.

As we talk for example, many people are using robot vacuums. Some of them are running Ubuntu 14 and sending up to 10 GB worth of data per month to the cloud (map of your home, ssids... etc). Also, those devices don't work if internet doesn't work. What for ? Selling 0.012% more furniture ?

In France we have that "Linky" "smart billing appliance", "connected electricity meter" that's coming for every home. The electricity provider will receive some telemetry about usage and whatever the fack they want (because no one is properly reviewing the hardware). What for ? More commercial non-sense ?

Windows 10... please. The whole Nadella strategy I mean... Try to disable all telemetry from Microsoft in less than one hour... It'll come back with the next security update ! I mean WHY ? Am I a terrorist or something ? Why do they even want my useless data from the start ? What for ?

There are tons of example of data collection without any foreseeable usage. (If you REALLY need that telemetry, at least sample it)

People not caring about their privacy because "it's convenient" is a thing. In the end, everyone will consent to that GDPR, I'm pretty sure all this "barely moneytizable" digital waste (read IoT trend) will clog the pipes and raise bandwidth costs, hosting costs and electricity costs. (until that global collapse...)


With that in mind, I think cloud gaming is one of the worst ideas. I'd rather call it "monitored, compressed, server side rendering" of "select titles".

"Let's render everything in max quality and then butcher the result with some codec !", "Let's end the whole software distribution (with DRM) thing."
It's a power and bandwidth waste. And more digital waste. (and I'm not even talking about the unity indie development, homebrew etc ? They are building a whole walled cloud gaming platform I guess)

Another Fatberg in the pipe.

 

[WizardStan]

can you name any of the franchises that died due to being converted to 3D and failing?

It didn't die (arguably) but I'm replaying Metroid Prime and have to admit, it's a good game, it looks great and handles ok but only if I judge it by what it is: if I think about the evolution in gameplay in first person adventure games that has occurred over the last 15 years it is, comparatively, a crap game.

So we don't own the games because they're downloaded but now, on top of that, we don't even get to own the hardware

That used to be the mantra against Netflix, too; streaming meant you didn't own the movies you watched and if it got taken down you'd never be able to watch it again.
But that hasn't happened. It doesn't look like it's ever going to happen. Physical media continues to exist for exactly the reason that sometimes there's a movie that you enjoy and do want to own a piece of that will last "forever". I used to buy movies at $20 to watch them once, and then they go on the shelf. Now I don't. I watch them on Netflix and if it's really good I buy it and put it on the shelf, still shrink wrapped, not because I want to watch it but because I want to own it. I feel like this has saved me hundreds of dollars in buying (and therefore supporting and thus contributing to) bad movies. In aggregate I've probably spent more, but I've also watched more and haven't felt like I wasted $20 on a bad movie.
If streaming games go this way I would be pretty happy, and I have full confidence that no matter what Google or anyone else does, physical consoles and media is not going to go away in our lifetime for the simple reason that physical stores continue to be a thing, and companies are greedy: so long as there are some people that like to go out and buy things, things will be sold to them. You really think SONY, Microsoft, or Nintendo are really going to go "ok Google, we will become publishers only for your streaming service"? Nah man, at worst they'll go "here's OUR hardware that is compatible with OUR streaming service" in order to guarantee that they control the experience. But then someone needs to sell the hardware, and here's the other piece of the equation: no one, not GameStop, not Walmart, not even the corner drugstore will sell hardware that doesn't get them a continuous revenue stream from games. You really think EB Games will say "sure Sony, I know our entire revenue model is based on selling new and used games and the platform is just a means of getting people to buy those, but OK, we'll stock your streaming only device that wipes out that revenue entirely"? Think Target will happily replace 20% of their highest ticket items and replace them with, like, more clothes? Not going to happen. Downloads have been a thing for many many years now, but physical media continues to exist for exactly these reasons, and if streaming becomes a thing those reasons will ensure physical media continues to be a thing despite it.

 

[FBnil]

we don't even get to own the hardware.

But that's great! When you die, there is only the controller to throw away. You can buy a thousand games, and will not need a basement like the video game nerd
Your children will not be burdened with tossing away things! Games are automatically "patched", etc.

It's worse than that: When you get born, your parents go and register you as a new vessel that has been produced (maritimal law). And you get your lifetime serial number.

Try to disable all telemetry from Microsoft in less than one hour..

There was software for that! (because, indeed, it is complex)

 

[ElPoco]

I'm pretty ambivalent about the "not owning" part. Sure, you're not owning it, but with the physical good what you own is just a support. A support with a limited lifetime and twenty years from now you'll have to go through all kinds of trouble to use it. I could theoretically find the VHS copy my parents have of some old movie I'd like to watch and then proceed to find an old VCR and a compatible TV and hope that everything is still working. But I could just watch that movie on Netflix or buy it cheaply on DVD.

To me, the problem is the duration of the copyright. I'd be fine with a paradigm where I don't "own" any physical or even digital version of the works as long as everything gets in the public domain (and is made widely available) in a reasonable time frame. (And while I'm at it, I'd rather have an open platform with standard protocols than a walled garden).

can you name any of the franchises that died due to being converted to 3D and failing? .

Flashback? (I remember having a good time with Fade2Black, but it wasn't THAT good (though it had a cool reload animation which always managed to find a camera angle that made you look so badass))
Earthworm Jim?
Monkey Island? (In that case the switch to 3D isn't to blame)

I think most franchises that were taken to 3D were strong enough to handle one setback without dying. I can think of a few franchises that went to bad 3D and then went back to 2D, or had a bad start with 3D before getting better.

 

[FBnil]

10 GB worth of data per month to the cloud

Great Scott! I did not know that!... Interesting! https://www.itworldcanada.com/artic...my-home-represent-a-major-privacy-risk/412628

where I don't "own" any physical or even digital version of the works as long as everything gets in the public domain (and is made widely available) in a reasonable time frame

I like this, like paying to support development, a bit of earnings, and then open it up for maintenance by the web. A bit like expiring a book.

The problem I have with copyrights, is then non-transferability, for example:

• I have an OEM Windows, but can not use it because it is only for the broken laptop I have.
  
• I own music on tape, but still need to pay for the music if I want do download it digitally.
• I have a game for GBA, and still need to pay full price for the (emulated) Switch version.
  
• I also bought games where the patch was as big as the game. So I had to put a 2nd CD in the case with the patch. Years later I required a crack because it does not "activate" anymore.

Not sure about Steam and how that translates when you die, can you transfer games to your kids if you did not make a will? https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/350540974003301631/

 

[Silent-Hunter]

Not having a will is a terrible idea. Why would your kids think they have a right to it if it's not in your will? I'm pretty sure if you have no will, your kids won't even get your actual physical stuff.

 

[elvissteinjr]

I wouldn't want to ever stream games this way, even though I happen to blessed by passable internet speeds since recently. These streaming madmen (not Google though, I think) even talk about doing this stuff for VR, while actual manufacturers use 60 GHz Wifi for their wireless solutions and even that has it's issues at times.

Low latency streaming can have interesting uses though. I use Parsec quite a bit to play local coop games with friends over the globe. It's pretty playable usually, unless the friend sits in Argentina (but he still manages kinda!).
Locally, the latency really is next to unnoticeable on it. It's better than Steam In-Home streaming in direct comparison. Remotely accessing the same desktop on every device while not feeling like you're in a remote session is neat.

But yeah, I wouldn't buy into streaming games from anywhere. The tech itself is what's interesting.

 

[___]

Not having a will is a terrible idea. Why would your kids think they have a right to it if it's not in your will? I'm pretty sure if you have no will, your kids won't even get your actual physical stuff.

that is not true at all. if you die without a will, the government will distribute your posessions to your next of kin. so if you have a spouse, they will get your belongings first, after that it would be your children, parents (if alive) and so on. of course the details will differ from country to country, but at least in Germany an the US this is regulated and there is no chance, that your kids wouldn't get "anything". it's the other way around in fact: even if you define in your will, that your kids will not receive jack out of spite, regulations are in place to make sure that they receive at least something (in Germany that is... not sure about the US and elsewhere).

EDIT: Oh and regarding the kids possibly not knowing what would be rightfully theirs: In Germany that is what the notary/notary court is for. Even without a testament/will they will determine the possessions and assets of the deceased, and as long as there are no secret stashes parked on the cayman islands, the will gather all that information.

 

[TrashyMG]

Flashback? (I remember having a good time with Fade2Black, but it wasn't THAT good (though it had a cool reload animation which always managed to find a camera angle that made you look so badass))

It visually was cool, but the controls were kind of horrific on it.