Future of the CPU board?

fusion_power

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Which modern (ARM) SoCs that outperforms the OMAP 5 also has the same, or even lower TDP and thermals? So we don't need a different cooling solution if the Pyra will achive newer hardware in the furure. Most mobile chips are speedy but also produce alot of heat that lead to alot of throttling. Not good if you want to run your fav. Emulator 24/7 mobile with no compromises in speed. ^^"
 

Linux-SWAT

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Half a decade old dual core A15 with terrible terrible terrible thermal envelope.
and no, it is not even close to the best 32 bit SoCs in both performance and thermals.
I don't know for the temperature because I don't want to remove the coolers on my boards.
Here's a quick OMAP5432 vs TK1 test I've just done:

MPlayer-20190418 compilation and package creation with a Slackbuild, using compressed sources.
Slackware-current, hard-float
gcc-9.1.0 (who said Slackware isn't up-to-date ?)
make -j2 (only two cores used)

OMAP5432, Igep 1.5 GHz (2013)
Tegra TK1, Jetson, manually capped to 1.53 GHz (a rounded 1.5GHz isn't available) (2014)

My micro-SD card on Igep is a lot slower than my full-size on Jetson.

OMAP5432: 14m22
Tegra TK1: 12m17

Trolling next on your favorite Pyra website: "the TK1 is a bad CPU so the OMAP5432 is even worse."
 
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Kuro

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The problem with the iMX8 is that it uses A53 cores, which are actually slower than the A15 ones. As it has more cores it can compensate for it in multi-threaded workloads, but it will remain slower in single threaded ones.

However i would like to know what the general thoughts are on the Amlogic S922X, it has 4 A73 + 2 A53 cores and a mali G52 MP4 gpu.
 

levi

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Which modern (ARM) SoCs that outperforms the OMAP 5 also has the same, or even lower TDP and thermals? So we don't need a different cooling solution if the Pyra will achive newer hardware in the furure. Most mobile chips are speedy but also produce alot of heat that lead to alot of throttling. Not good if you want to run your fav. Emulator 24/7 mobile with no compromises in speed. ^^"
That's a good question, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of research done there. The best I've found for cortex-A5 twins is this article from anadtech which included this graph:

That's while running a Mozilla benchmark and the A15 is the shortest line; the purple one. It easily beats the competition but puts out quite a lot of power to do it; somewhere north of 3W, suggesting it's TDP is somewhere around 2W.

The only stat I can find for later ARM chips is from a marketing slide (so, a pinch of salt is required) which suggested they were aiming for a TDP of about 5W for the A76 at 3GHz. TDPs and thermals for anything in between seem hard to find.
 

ThinkPad

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Trolling next on your favorite Pyra website: "the TK1 is a bad CPU so the OMAP5432 is even worse."
It is not a trolling it is the simple truth. Why is so hard to admit that OMAP5432 IS NOT the best 32bit ARM SoC ? :D
Tegra K1 ? come on :D both the Tegra and and the OMAP are complete joke compared to anything from Samsung and Qualcomm with A15 cores from that era.


OMAP5432 will be okay for the Pyra as longs as it is able to open a web pages/youtube videos fast enough.
 

fusion_power

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That's a good question, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of research done there. The best I've found for cortex-A5 twins is this article from anadtech which included this graph:
That's while running a Mozilla benchmark and the A15 is the shortest line; the purple one. It easily beats the competition but puts out quite a lot of power to do it; somewhere north of 3W, suggesting it's TDP is somewhere around 2W.

The only stat I can find for later ARM chips is from a marketing slide (so, a pinch of salt is required) which suggested they were aiming for a TDP of about 5W for the A76 at 3GHz. TDPs and thermals for anything in between seem hard to find.
Interesting. All I found about the OMAP5 is that it's an 28nm chip, so I guess there are more modern, power efficient comparable SoC's out these days. I guess that like all mobile CPU's it depends alot on the power management settings to find the best gap between performance and avoliding to much heat.
 

Silent-Hunter

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The OMAP5 was the best EvilDragon could get. From what I understand, most companies wouldn't even sell to him. So yes, it is the best 32 bit ARM CPU the Pyra could have.
 

ljones

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Leaving aside what CPU any new upgrade could use I can think of something which would be useful (slightly OT btw). If an updated CPU board is created one thing which would be useful is (assuming we're allowed to take apart our pyras and it won't invalidate a warranty) some sort of document (eg a pdf) detailing how to open up the pyra and install the new board. Don't want a collection of unusued screws or anyone's pyra going fzzzzt after the CPU board is put in the wrong way round!

ljones
 

TrashyMG

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Leaving aside what CPU any new upgrade could use I can think of something which would be useful (slightly OT btw). If an updated CPU board is created one thing which would be useful is (assuming we're allowed to take apart our pyras and it won't invalidate a warranty) some sort of document (eg a pdf) detailing how to open up the pyra and install the new board. Don't want a collection of unusued screws or anyone's pyra going fzzzzt after the CPU board is put in the wrong way round!

ljones
I don't think EvilDragon ever voided a warranty if he noticed someone opened up a Pandora, that said my first batch Pandora looked like it was assembled by the American Tourister Gorilla and he still repaired it without questions...

I think by design it would be near impossible to install in the wrong way, the design uses two socket connectors which have a specific orientations, not to mention it likely won't fit backwards in the case.
 

Grench

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I think by design it would be near impossible to install in the wrong way, the design uses two socket connectors which have a specific orientations, not to mention it likely won't fit backwards in the case.
Universal installation tool would get 'er done.
Code:
https://www.amazon.com/Wilton-22036-36-Inch-Sledge-Hammer/dp/B006MGMNTW
For translation 20 pounds ~ 9 KG.
 

levi

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Interesting. All I found about the OMAP5 is that it's an 28nm chip, so I guess there are more modern, power efficient comparable SoC's out these days. I guess that like all mobile CPU's it depends alot on the power management settings to find the best gap between performance and avoliding to much heat.
Maybe, there's been a few things build on 20/14/7nm, but those are mostly retained by their manufacturers or clients for their flagship phones I think. 28nm is still pretty much state of the art from what I've been seeing.

I'm not sure that mobile CPUs are that well tuned for the space they're operating in. From everything I've heard thus far they're designed for brief bulk loads like loading a web page and rendering it, meanwhile while you're reading it and especially not scrolling it, they can cool off. If you want to do something seamless like a game, the game has to do things like only using the GPU for cut scenes, and using mainly 2D resources for the main map and gameplay.
 

Grench

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Maybe, there's been a few things build on 20/14/7nm, but those are mostly retained by their manufacturers or clients for their flagship phones I think. 28nm is still pretty much state of the art from what I've been seeing.

I'm not sure that mobile CPUs are that well tuned for the space they're operating in. From everything I've heard thus far they're designed for brief bulk loads like loading a web page and rendering it, meanwhile while you're reading it and especially not scrolling it, they can cool off. If you want to do something seamless like a game, the game has to do things like only using the GPU for cut scenes, and using mainly 2D resources for the main map and gameplay.
I can foresee the potential need for a method to flip between two CPU settings for the Pyra.

One would be the 'stock' where full speed is available and the CPU throttles back only when hot. Great for web surfing, office tasks, some games with sporadic CPU use, etc. This would likely be the default.

The other, would start off throttled/underclocked to ensure that it gives consistent performance yet (normally) stays within the thermal envelope if used in a 'normal' environment. Great for games & emulators that run with the assumption that they will use all of the CPU all of the time then drop frames that the system cannot keep up with. Hypothetically this could be tuned to run at an adjustable % of the Pyra's thermal limit - or even dynamically calculate what the current thermal limit is based on thermal rise over time.

Maybe switch between those modes using Alt+Ctrl+Shift+Fn+T (turbo)?
 

fusion_power

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I'm not sure that mobile CPUs are that well tuned for the space they're operating in. From everything I've heard thus far they're designed for brief bulk loads like loading a web page and rendering it, meanwhile while you're reading it and especially not scrolling it, they can cool off. If you want to do something seamless like a game, the game has to do things like only using the GPU for cut scenes, and using mainly 2D resources for the main map and gameplay.
Yeah, I remember that ED also described that modern mobile Chip behaviour. All seems to be built to show impressive GHz values but no chip can hold that for long. At least not on mobile devices like Smartphones. I wonder how you even can play games for a longer time on these things.
At least Gaming Handhelds like the Nintendo Switch etc. seems to have the right type of CPU/GPU to don't need to worry about intense throtteling.
 

vcoleiro1

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Yeah, I remember that ED also described that modern mobile Chip behaviour. All seems to be built to show impressive GHz values but no chip can hold that for long. At least not on mobile devices like Smartphones. I wonder how you even can play games for a longer time on these things.
At least Gaming Handhelds like the Nintendo Switch etc. seems to have the right type of CPU/GPU to don't need to worry about intense throtteling.

The Switch has a fan in though which is why it can do that.

I noticed the Red Magic 3 gaming phone also has a fan in it . I wonder if it will be the first and only, or if others will now do it
 

spud42

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yep, Todays overclocking steps are bigger than this..lol wasnt the base clock for a IBM clone 4.7MHz?? those were the days...
 
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