Free Lossless Image Format (FLIF)

Discussion in 'Offtopic Discussions' started by _wb_, Sep 6, 2015.

  1. rygD

    rygD Nihilistic Mystic

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2014
    Messages:
    7,360
    Location:
    Everywhere
    So maybe you should call it "Free Lossless Universal Format" or "Free Lossless Universal Format For Images".

    I really just want to say "hey, look at this fluff" or "can I get those fluffy files?".
     
    FaeMinx and _wb_ like this.
  2. _wb_

    _wb_ Microbe Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2012
    Messages:
    5,387
    Location:
    Brussels, Belgium
    Haha, .fluffi does sound very nice indeed. It's a bit long for a filename extension though. And .fluf would be too general.


    Before I make claims about being 'universal', I want to try some more kinds of images. Does anyone have some specific type of image in mind that I could test on? A (set of) test image(s) is also always appreciated.
     
  3. Klumpen

    Klumpen Run away! Run away!

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    6,721
    Location:
    Uncanny Valley
    I like the old three character rule which would make it the .flu :D
     
  4. rygD

    rygD Nihilistic Mystic

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2014
    Messages:
    7,360
    Location:
    Everywhere
    of course by sticking with FLIF, as 3 letters I prefer .flf (which I can still say as "fluff", but which has the same problem as .fluf) to .fli ("fly", or maybe "flea", neither of which is as silly as "fluff").  All of these are a bit fun, so I guess any of them are good for a smile when thinking about it.

    The only reason I suggested "universal" is that I couldn't find a word starting with U to replace "image".  Since the stuff I quoted sort of made it less limited I felt it wasn't as much of a stretch, although it obviously still was a huge stretch to call it universal ("does it work for text files?").  Maybe, if you are open to the idea of a fun acronym, there is a word in something other than English that is suitable.

    The only thing I thought of for additional images to try was already suggested by someone else and discussed.

    Since I haven't yet praised/thanked you for working on this: This is really cool.  Thanks for actually working on making something more efficient rather than being one of those that says "things are good enough as they are, and if we need something better someone else can do it".  I guess we have a handful of people here that like to push the limit of efficiency and make new interesting stuff.
     
    Neelix and _wb_ like this.
  5. comradekingu

    comradekingu Glowing ember

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2011
    Messages:
    4,968
    .flf has a nice added bonus interjection in correcting misuse.

    FLIF not fluff.

    Noun
    fluff ‎(plural fluffs)

               Anything inconsequential or superficial.

    That article was basically a bunch of fluff. It didn't say anything substantive.
     
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2015
  6. pmprog

    pmprog Advanced Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,860
    .fli is already a graphic extension (though video rather than image)
     
  7. rygD

    rygD Nihilistic Mystic

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2014
    Messages:
    7,360
    Location:
    Everywhere
    I figured I would run into one in use eventually.

    Always focusing on the negatives... :p  Maybe just swapping the last 2 words (and letters) can make it fluffy.  That changes the meaning, though, so FLIF it is.

    Ok, now we can back to more technical matters since fun names are bad.
     
  8. WizardStan

    WizardStan Mega GP Mania

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    16,712
    What you've already posted *should* be enough, but my opinion of the patent system is so low right now that I'd almost suggest legit filing the patent yourself and then getting a lawyer to draw up an unlimited, non-terminating license that says anyone can use it for any reason forever and it can never be undone even if the rights pass to someone else.
    But in the back of my brain I'm remembering a not-patent sort of thing that you can still put in saying "I made this, if anyone else makes this this is an official record that I made it first" but I may have just made that up in some drunken wishful thinking.

    That'd help. I still don't trust that someone wouldn't try and patent it against you anyway.
     
  9. slaeshjag

    slaeshjag ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2010
    Messages:
    2,687
    Location:
    ~Stockholm, Sweden
    In the US, where software patents are valid, they are issued on a first-to-file basis, not first-to-invent.

    EDIT: So, to build a solid case of prior art, I'd suggest holding back details until you got the paper published. A published paper explaining everything before a patent was applied for would probably hold stronger than an archive of beta source code.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2015
  10. WizardStan

    WizardStan Mega GP Mania

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    16,712
    How does it handle greyscale? Just a single 16bit "colour"?What is the effect on 1D images? Just a line of varying dots?

    What about combined? How does it work with a sequence of 16bit signed integers?

    Basically I'm asking if it can handle audio in a similar way or if the degradation just doesn't work the same.

    Even if it doesn't degrade at all, it may still beat out FLAC in terms of ratio and speed?
     
  11. PokeParadox

    PokeParadox Founder of Pirate Games - Penjin Coder Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    6,512
    Location:
    UK
    Hmmm I guess sprite/tilebased games screenshots, and possibly hand drawn stuff. There is also that test image from the HQ2x page: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Test_nn.png
     
  12. ElPoco

    ElPoco Very Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2012
    Messages:
    718
    Location:
    Paris, France
    In France, I was told that you could send a sealed letter to yourself with details about your invention inside. The stamp of the post-office had enough legal value to prove that the date of the letter. I'm not sure if that would really work though.
     
  13. Magic Sam

    Magic Sam Forever Homebrew

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    2,214
    Location:
    Innsmouth, MA
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2015
  14. rygD

    rygD Nihilistic Mystic

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2014
    Messages:
    7,360
    Location:
    Everywhere
    This is supposedly acceptable in the US as well.
     
  15. comradekingu

    comradekingu Glowing ember

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2011
    Messages:
    4,968
    Scanned books/manuscripts provide quite a portfolio of accumulated data.

    Typically they exist in huge databases, so savings add up.

    OCR comes into play in various ways too.
     
  16. WizardStan

    WizardStan Mega GP Mania

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    16,712
    That's for copyright, and it doesn't guarantee anything. Someone could still steal the idea, register it themself, and make it very difficult for you to sue them over it.For patent protection I think the only recourse is to patent it yourself first, or make the invention so ubiquitous that no one can claim they didn't know it was already a thing.
     
  17. Klumpen

    Klumpen Run away! Run away!

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    6,721
    Location:
    Uncanny Valley
    My workshop has a patent in 36 countries and it's bloody expensive (although we're not making that much money with it compared to any big players), especcially the German patent, it's probably not as bad when it comes to software since you may not have to file it in every country seperately but I have no idea.

    If there is a way to protect your stuff without throwing a few thousand dollars into it on a regular basis, then use it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 9, 2015
  18. _wb_

    _wb_ Microbe Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2012
    Messages:
    5,387
    Location:
    Brussels, Belgium
    It handles greyscale images fine. 1D 'images' I haven't tried yet, but my guess would be that it degrades quite a bit, since exploiting the 2D nature of images is quite central to the pixel estimation. Interesting border case to test though...
     
  19. _wb_

    _wb_ Microbe Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2012
    Messages:
    5,387
    Location:
    Brussels, Belgium
    Some more benchmark results:

    Christoph.Krn's GUIhints:

    [​IMG]

    Random images with transparency:

    [​IMG]

    The game graphics of Braid:

    [​IMG]

    Medical images:

    [​IMG]

    Line drawings: (diagrams etc, mostly black & white)

    [​IMG]

    Photographs:

    [​IMG]

    Sparse color images:

    [​IMG]

    Maps:

    [​IMG]

    Everything together:

    [​IMG]
     
    _jr_ likes this.
  20. _wb_

    _wb_ Microbe Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2012
    Messages:
    5,387
    Location:
    Brussels, Belgium

Share This Page

Loading...