Flash Gaming


MagicPants

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My main uses for the Pandora are as follows:

1) A portable video player
2) Playing emulated games
3) Playing Flash games
4) A web browser

It occurs to me that points 1 and 2 are in legal gray areas. And as such it precarious to market the Pandora for those.

It also occurs to me that flash games are generally free of legal concerns and easy to find and so the Pandora could be marketed as a flash games player. So it got me to thinking about what software it would need to really pull it off. The touch screen is a godsend and without it I don't see hardly anything working, but you'd also need a good way to play the games outside a browser both for screen real estate and performance. You'd also need offline access to those games when you don't have internet.

For me this isn't a huge issue. I can just look in the page source and download the game, but what would it take to make it accessible to causal users. You'd need an obvious way to save the game on the browser and an integrated library of game the users could access offline. Does anything like this already exist?
 

chad78

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How is the ability to play video a legal gray area? There are tons of media players on the market.
 

MagicPants

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Well for example, and I'm not saying this is the case. If someone was playing ripped DVDs or say television shows without commercials.

I'd consider both "okay" depending on circumstance, being if you own those DVDs, or whatnot, but there are large corporations with many more resources than the Pandora team arguing that they are not legal.

I'm more thinking about as a gaming platform. Just making the point that flash games are free and legal while emulated games are not and it would cool to leverage flash games to sell units.

I'm not in any way arguing to get rid of the emulated games or video players ( that would make me cry ). Just it's hard to market something that way ( Bleem anyone? )
 

CandidStan

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So basically your saying your afraid the Pandora will disappear if someone does something Illegal with it? The PSP homebrew scene hasn't been tagged by the big corps yet, neither has the GP2X community. So why would the Pandora be the first? The Pandora isn't marketed at anyone at all really. Its not going to be featured as the new hot item in PC World, or on sale at Wal-mart. Its x2 more underground then the GP2X.
 

Frank Grimes

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MagicPants said:
My main uses for the Pandora are as follows:

1) A portable video player
2) Playing emulated games
3) Playing Flash games
4) A web browser

It occurs to me that points 1 and 2 are in legal gray areas. And as such it precarious to market the Pandora for those.

It also occurs to me that flash games are generally free of legal concerns and easy to find and so the Pandora could be marketed as a flash games player. So it got me to thinking about what software it would need to really pull it off. The touch screen is a godsend and without it I don't see hardly anything working, but you'd also need a good way to play the games outside a browser both for screen real estate and performance. You'd also need offline access to those games when you don't have internet.

For me this isn't a huge issue. I can just look in the page source and download the game, but what would it take to make it accessible to causal users. You'd need an obvious way to save the game on the browser and an integrated library of game the users could access offline. Does anything like this already exist?
For downloading Flash files:
http://www.sothink.com/product/swfcatcher/ie/
http://www.sothink.com/product/swfcatcher/firefox/index.php

Much easier than viewing the source and downloading it :p

Keep in mind though that some flash games are site-locked so they can't be played offline or on another site. There's ways around that too, but then you're getting into that "legal grey area" again.

I don't see how marketing the Pandora as a video player would be a legal grey area though. Sure someone can download videos illegally, but that has nothing to do with the Pandora being able to play them at all.
 
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MagicPants

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CandidStan said:
So basically your saying your afraid the Pandora will disappear if someone does something Illegal with it? The PSP homebrew scene hasn't been tagged by the big corps yet, neither has the GP2X community. So why would the Pandora be the first? The Pandora isn't marketed at anyone at all really. Its not going to be featured as the new hot item in PC World, or on sale at Wal-mart. Its x2 more underground then the GP2X.
I suppose I'm saying it'll be an underground thing and that's fine, but that it has potential to appeal to casual people too and that's not a bad thing is it?
 
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JakeK

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The only thing that is in the grey is the emulated games. A video player is a very important feature for a device like this. It isn't in a grey area at all, not one bit.
 

CandidStan

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MagicPants said:
CandidStan said:
So basically your saying your afraid the Pandora will disappear if someone does something Illegal with it? The PSP homebrew scene hasn't been tagged by the big corps yet, neither has the GP2X community. So why would the Pandora be the first? The Pandora isn't marketed at anyone at all really. Its not going to be featured as the new hot item in PC World, or on sale at Wal-mart. Its x2 more underground then the GP2X.
I suppose I'm saying it'll be an underground thing and that's fine, but that it has potential to appeal to casual people too and that's not a bad thing is it?


Sure, casual appeal is fine, however that would require the devs to make the installation process more stream line then I assume it would be for the educated gamer. I mean the PSP has casual appeal, however it's easy to put data on it. I assume the Pandora will be a bit more difficult.
 
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bigtruck

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Adobe opened up the flash player spec recently, so I'd imagine projects like gnash and swfdec that will work on the Pandora should improve rapidly.

babamthegrunt said:
oh dear god the "H" game community would flip for this...
babamthegrunt said:
I have um plans....
:unsure: :blink:
 
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enigmacipher

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Can someone please clear this up?

Firstly, Video player is not a legal grey area (I know thats already been said)

Secondly, Why in the world is flash player listed as #3? You cant mean FLV, because u already mentioned video, and everybody knows that SWF support will be limited at best. Besides, even if SWF support is great, who would REALLY consider playing swf games to be more important than web browsing?

And then you don't even include standard opensource/linux/homebrew gaming. You must not think that Doom, Quake, OpenTTD, Stepmania, FreeCiv, Neverball and many more arent good games. They are.

My list would be something like this:

1. Emulators
2. Homebrew/Linux/OpenSource gaming
3. Web Browsing
4. Programming
5. Video/Audio Playing
6. ???
7. ???
8. ???
9. SWF player

I definitely want SWF files to work, but gnash sucks atm, and commercial adobe flash support probably won't happen.

EDIT: Does anyone know if we will see web-based java-app support? I don't mean javascript.
 

Svartalf

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enigmacipher said:
EDIT: Does anyone know if we will see web-based java-app support? I don't mean javascript.
This depends on the availability of a JRE and plugin for Mozilla or whatever we end up with as a browser. It's a fairly high-up priority for me as a "want" of mine . I'm kind of booked for things everyone else wants so I'm going to hope for the best and not be disappointed if there's not anything of the sort for a bit- otherwise I'd be game for making it happen... :D
 
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MagicPants

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enigmacipher said:
Can someone please clear this up?

Firstly, Video player is not a legal grey area (I know thats already been said)

Secondly, Why in the world is flash player listed as #3? You cant mean FLV, because u already mentioned video, and everybody knows that SWF support will be limited at best. Besides, even if SWF support is great, who would REALLY consider playing swf games to be more important than web browsing?

And then you don't even include standard opensource/linux/homebrew gaming. You must not think that Doom, Quake, OpenTTD, Stepmania, FreeCiv, Neverball and many more arent good games. They are.

My list would be something like this:

1. Emulators
2. Homebrew/Linux/OpenSource gaming
3. Web Browsing
4. Programming
5. Video/Audio Playing
6. ???
7. ???
8. ???
9. SWF player

I definitely want SWF files to work, but gnash sucks atm, and commercial adobe flash support probably won't happen.

EDIT: Does anyone know if we will see web-based java-app support? I don't mean javascript.
Well I don't consider a video player to be in a legal gray area, neither is an emulator really. But I couldn't hand this thing to my parents* and have them use it as a video player without them doing something "gray". Unless they are home movie buffs there's really no way to get video on anything without violating the DMCA (DMCA is a load of horse sh!t btw.) That goes with just about any video player except an ipod which actually has a store for this these days. I suppose the studios are including more digital copy versions on DVDs/Blu-rays (when they aren't trying to figure out how to devour the souls of small kittens) which is great for the 3 titles that have it.

Also just to clear things up I love indie/homebrew games games (check projects under my website). Just most of them aren't designed to run at 800x480 whereas most flash games are.

All I'm getting at is it sure would be swell if Craig and Co could sell 50,000,000,000 of these and do that there have to be apps that any idiot can sit down and enjoy.

* I always hate using examples of giving technology to my parents because they are lame, same goes for your grandmother.
 
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Tom`

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One thing to keep in mind: the Pandora is largely being sold outside the US, where the DMCA is in most cases irrelevant.

Also, what flash games are designed to run at 800x480? Before the EeePC, I don't know of any other devices that were limited to this resolution. At any rate, there is no reason this resolution would be bad for homebrew.
 

MagicPants

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Tom` said:
Also, what flash games are designed to run at 800x480? Before the EeePC, I don't know of any other devices that were limited to this resolution. At any rate, there is no reason this resolution would be bad for homebrew.
Sorry I should have said within 800x480, most flash games are designed to run within a browser so they use less screen real estate than regular games, which is a nice thing when you're looking for games that will run on a small screen.

Flash games also don't make use of right click so it's easier to use a touch screen/stylus with them. Also I'm assuming a good implementation of flash would run pretty well because it doesn't make use of special hardware. But yeah a lot of the new ones require hooking into an add server.
 
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.Gogeta§§J4BR.

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stretching flash is awesome, shut up. actually, it's one of its strong attributes!

cmom, we all know flash (both for browser use and for gaming) would be INCREDIBLY AWESOME on the pandora, we would all be spending hours on kongregate.com with our handhelds!!!

i would find it unacceptable for this kind of device not to have a really good flash player, ready for easy playing with the touchscreen.
 

chad78

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Ok - without harping on the gray areas business - (there was a time when record companies hated the iPod - saw it as pirates device, so I can see where you are coming from - but as far as shielding Pandora Inc. from lawsuits - it's a non-issue) - the focus on Flash, while a nice idea - isn't practical at this point. We don't know if it will run Flash *at all* much less well, at this point. Keep in mind, this is a Linux based product. And while the Flash format may have just being open sourced - Flash Player has not, (not that I am aware of, anyway). There are similiar products (the Nokia N-series Internet Tablets) that are Linux based, ARM based, and do run Flash. But they don't do so in a Full Screen mode. Just within the browser. (Although, the browser does go full screen.)

And, BTW - the Nokia's also use the 800 x 480 screens. And they are 4.1" - so very close to the Pandora screen.

One issue that hasn't really been brought up... Most Flash games I come across use keyboard controls - not gamepads. So marketing the game controls as being for Flash games is, well, a non-starter.

I don't think we need to worry about shielding Pandora Co. from litigation. The GP2X and the GP32 were both open source game consoles that had little other use outside of gaming. (Don't blow up at me - I said "Little" other use - not NO other use.) So marketing an open source game system is completely legal. Selling a DVD burner is legal. If people use that to clone copyrighted DVDs - that's not your fault or your problem. The burner has many non-gray-area legal uses.

I don't think anyone believes the Pandora is only for playing ROMs. There are far cheaper ways to play emulators on the go. (Modded PSP, modded DS, modded GBA, OneStation, MD Max, Zodiac, GP32, GP2X, cell phones, PocketPCs, old laptops, Eee PC, Nokia Internet Tablets, iPhone, iPod Touch....) This is more than an emulator device. By far.
 

CandidStan

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MagicPants said:
My main uses for the Pandora are as follows:

1) A portable video player
2) Playing emulated games
3) Playing Flash games
4) A web browser

It occurs to me that points 1 and 2 are in legal gray areas. And as such it precarious to market the Pandora for those.

MagicPants said:
enigmacipher said:
Can someone please clear this up?

Firstly, Video player is not a legal grey area (I know thats already been said)

Secondly, Why in the world is flash player listed as #3? You cant mean FLV, because u already mentioned video, and everybody knows that SWF support will be limited at best. Besides, even if SWF support is great, who would REALLY consider playing swf games to be more important than web browsing?

I don't think anyone believes the Pandora is only for playing ROMs. There are far cheaper ways to play emulators on the go. (Modded PSP, modded DS, modded GBA, OneStation, MD Max, Zodiac, GP32, GP2X, cell phones, PocketPCs, old laptops, Eee PC, Nokia Internet Tablets, iPhone, iPod Touch....) This is more than an emulator device. By far.
Well, I still think that sounds like you trying to sway people away from homebrew and gaming, and into UMPCing.
And then you don't even include standard opensource/linux/homebrew gaming. You must not think that Doom, Quake, OpenTTD, Stepmania, FreeCiv, Neverball and many more arent good games. They are.

My list would be something like this:

1. Emulators
2. Homebrew/Linux/OpenSource gaming
3. Web Browsing
4. Programming
5. Video/Audio Playing
6. ???
7. ???
8. ???
9. SWF player

I definitely want SWF files to work, but gnash sucks atm, and commercial adobe flash support probably won't happen.

EDIT: Does anyone know if we will see web-based java-app support? I don't mean javascript.


Well I don't consider a video player to be in a legal gray area, neither is an emulator really. But I couldn't hand this thing to my parents* and have them use it as a video player without them doing something "gray". Unless they are home movie buffs there's really no way to get video on anything without violating the DMCA (DMCA is a load of horse sh!t btw.) That goes with just about any video player except an ipod which actually has a store for this these days. I suppose the studios are including more digital copy versions on DVDs/Blu-rays (when they aren't trying to figure out how to devour the souls of small kittens) which is great for the 3 titles that have it.

Also just to clear things up I love indie/homebrew games games (check projects under my website). Just most of them aren't designed to run at 800x480 whereas most flash games are.

All I'm getting at is it sure would be swell if Craig and Co could sell 50,000,000,000 of these and do that there have to be apps that any idiot can sit down and enjoy.

* I always hate using examples of giving technology to my parents because they are lame, same goes for your grandmother.



Your more flip floppy then a politician..
 
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