Firmware Updates

[kloplop321]

As a non-Linux user, I'm a bit confused. Are we talking about updates to the basic OS, or updates to individual programs, or both?

Maybe I'm just not savvy with how Linux does things, but I would think that OS updates would be few and far between. Would it really be that inconvenient to require users to do OS updates while tethered to a PC over USB? This would significantly reduce the (admittedly small) chance of some mishap while writing to the NAND.

As far as program updates, I already assumed the Pandora would be able to do them in a standalone manner over wifi. Even in a worst-case scenario the only thing that could get messed up is the particular program that you're updating. All you would have to do is remove it and try again. Obviously people should also have the option of installing from an SD card or over USB if they prefer.

I use linux on two computers, there is usually an application that manages packages such as in Debian based distros such as ubuntu(I use Kubuntu and Xubuntu) use called dpkg which is the best so far at making sure that "Dependency Hell" never happens. That means that something is missing that is vital to the system or to another application. Dpkg installs all things required for the application to run without problems, that includes libraries, the application, and maybe some side applications that the application depends upon. the apt-get database usually updates every day and has some icon somewhere notifying you if there are any program upgrades, and the system will tell you when there is a stable system upgrade, which for ubuntu happens roughly every 6 months.
http://moparisthebest.com/pkgmanager/index.html
There is a package manager document guide that a collage student made recently on a forum that I am on. It gives a lot of information for your understanding. it is a compare and contrast thing

also about your 'Installing from an SD card or over USB if they prefer'
dpkg usually has stuff like that with the extension of ".deb" that can be ran through an installation engine application(which is mime linked). The apt-get/aptitude/Synaptic package manager/Adept applications download the *.deb's, then once all downloaded, installs them in order of the bases first, and then the main things that require the bases.
most of the time deb files are pre-compiled binaries
dpkg mostly gets rid of "Dependency Hell" I forget if the linux system on the pandora will have dpkg specifically, but most linux applications have the source available that will be compiled for the process during the installation procedure.

 

[mindlord]

also about your 'Installing from an SD card or over USB if they prefer'
dpkg usually has stuff like that with the extension of ".deb" that can be ran through an installation engine application(which is mime linked). The apt-get/aptitude/Synaptic package manager/Adept applications download the *.deb's, then once all downloaded, installs them in order of the bases first, and then the main things that require the bases.
most of the time deb files are pre-compiled binaries
dpkg mostly gets rid of "Dependency Hell" I forget if the linux system on the pandora will have dpkg specifically, but most linux applications have the source available that will be compiled for the process during the installation procedure.

I'm just exploring a better way to help our non-wifi friends.

The crux of the issue with non-wifi users is there is no mechanism in place (that I know of) for the package manager to automatically generate a list of packages to be updated without an Internet connection. So the user would have to know what to put on the SD card for dpkg to install. That could be dozens of packages for the user to download by hand from the repo and put on the SD card for the package manager to update from.

Many of the updates wouldn't even pertain to software the user has installed. No need to update WxWidgets if you're not using any applications that use it, etc. Not to mention clearing off enough room on a choked SD card for this week's round of updates. Tedious, nay, painful and off-putting enough to loose interest in the whole process.

When you have an active Internet connection all this seems trivial. The package manager is a wonderful thing, but it's severely crippled without a repo to connect to.

 

[Squidge]

How would you update the kernel using a package manager?

By typing something like this:
CODE
$ su -c "apt-get install linux-image-2.6.25 && reboot"



Thats fine on a PC where the kernel is a file, but what about on an embedded device where the kernel is on certain specific nand blocks? I assume the package manager doesn't know how to directly write to the nand?

 

[kloplop321]

The NAND should have a file system too shouldn't it?
Linux has everything in a file system except the first 512 bytes in the MasterBootSector of the main storage device.

 

[palmertech]

My two observations: While the PSP can update via wifi, the firmware updates are also available via download on the Sony web site. I think there is no reason to change much from the gp2x system, except that we will be able to download the firmware updates to the sd from the pandora via wifi. And personally, I disagree with the OP who says he hopes there are firmware updates. Ideally, it will be perfect from the start, hence never needing any updates at all! The main thing is to figure out a way to notify people that a new firmware is available. Look at all the people in the "I need help" forum that still have firmware 1.2 or something! Continue your far more technical discussion now.

 

[sindbad]

Thats fine on a PC where the kernel is a file, but what about on an embedded device where the kernel is on certain specific nand blocks? I assume the package manager doesn't know how to directly write to the nand?
Packages can have install scripts that can do absolutely anything anywhere, since they're shell scripts that can call other programs.

I'm a bit curious as to why the kernel needs to be there, why not a filesystem?

 

[Orkie]

The NAND should have a file system too shouldn't it?
Linux has everything in a file system except the first 512 bytes in the MasterBootSector of the main storage device.

Not true, the kernel can be stored anywhere. So long as it gets loaded, it is irrelevant whether it is stored on a filesystem or is just stored raw on a storage device. On the GP2X, there is a section of the NAND dedicated to the kernel and it is essentially dd-ed onto the section, no filesystem involved.

I'm a bit curious as to why the kernel needs to be there, why not a filesystem?

It bulk in the bootloader and is faster to load. Plus they might want to lock that portion of the NAND inside Linux to stop people accidentally bricking their machines. Although recovery will be pretty simple, not everybody seems to be able to cope with it (I've helped many people simply reflash a kernel on their 'bricked' GP2Xs).