Feature voting page

[Silent-Hunter]

Probably it would add more security if you just used some location tracking service... should be trivial to write, just add a script on the Pandora which waits for incoming SMS, if one says "request_position someLongAndSecurePassword-feawhg4t" it fires up the GPS and replies with the coordinates once it has them.

Very few thieves would find out how to remove something like this before you get the chance to use it.

Yes please, someone should code this! I don't know if I can, but once I have a Pyra I can try.

 

[thatgui]

Probably it would add more security if you just used some location tracking service... should be trivial to write, just add a script on the Pandora which waits for incoming SMS, if one says "request_position someLongAndSecurePassword-feawhg4t" it fires up the GPS and replies with the coordinates once it has them.


Very few thieves would find out how to remove something like this before you get the chance to use it.

That won't add any security at all, just heightens the possibility to get your device back. But that would require that both the gps module and the cellphone module are active all the time and that the battery still is "juicy" (which gets less likely if the gps and cellphone are active all the time).


One other way is to ask the local authority wether they are allowed to track the cellphone module of the Pyra if it is reported stolen.


@trix. Kensigton locks are ok for preventing "quick grab" thefts, but thats about it

 

[comradekingu]

The kensington hole you could use to make it a lanyard too.

 

[Granitehead]

Probably it would add more security if you just used some location tracking service... should be trivial to write, just add a script on the Pandora which waits for incoming SMS, if one says "request_position someLongAndSecurePassword-feawhg4t" it fires up the GPS and replies with the coordinates once it has them.

Very few thieves would find out how to remove something like this before you get the chance to use it.

But that would require that both the gps module and the cellphone module are active all the time and that the battery still is "juicy" (which gets less likely if the gps and cellphone are active all the time).

Neither GPS nor cellphone network needs to be active all the time and if the battery runs empty that isn't necessarily the end of it either (sooner or later someone will charge it again). Cellphone network connection would ideally be turned on, yes, but it doesn't need to be active, it would just need to listen. That lowers battery life, but not by that much. If you are concerned by that you could write a script which just enables it once per hour to check for incoming SMS messages and then turns it off again.
The only way the Pyra is lost is when the sim card is removed before it first connects to the cellphone network or if Pyra is reflashed before being started (the latter could be circumvented if all the firmware images included that tracking app and set up a default password based on something like a serial number).

That's a possiblity, but not that likely.

Additional possible features of tracking app: When there is an internet connection anyway, read mails from a dedicated email account, if there is an email with the right code+command send coordinates once/regularly.

If this was integrated in the firmware in a smart unobtrusive way then this could be set up to work no matter whether the device is reflashed or set up with a different sim card. I'm just not sure if that's something which people would want.

 

[comradekingu]

It could be just occational tracking, powering up the modem every 5 minutes. Or just a once-over every time you try to log in.

 

[FBnil]

I used Prey for a while, but got fed up with the dialing home thing. They made it work on N900 before, thus should work on Pyra also: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1021829

 

[thatgui]

Neither GPS nor cellphone network needs to be active all the time and if the battery runs empty that isn't necessarily the end of it either (sooner or later someone will charge it again). Cellphone network connection would ideally be turned on, yes, but it doesn't need to be active, it would just need to listen. That lowers battery life, but not by that much. If you are concerned by that you could write a script which just enables it once per hour to check for incoming SMS messages and then turns it off again.

Which is fine unless you are in a more urban area, where gps signals are often blocked and the gps-module needs to stay active for longer periods of time to properly triangulate your position. The stolen good will inevitebly be stored somewhere inside, so better get as much information about its movement before it can't tell its position anymore.
Don't know if power consumption is a real concern, but in the end (with some people around here beeing concerned about their privacy, and some even switching off the power LED to gain some extra minutes) the feature would only find its way in the official OS if it were optional - so no one looses anything.

But I'm more interested in the general usefullness of such services (beeing it "homemade" or more professionell). Your device gets stolen, you locate it and then what ? Unless you live in a rural area there is a big chance, that the building you located through such a service will contain more than one inhabitant. But even then, what to do after knocking at the door? You are certainly not allowed to enter his domicile to check for your device. In the end you could try to press charges, and in court its his word against yours.

I would rather try to get money out of my insurance company, so I could buy a new one.

 

[Silent-Hunter]

Actually, since you have the triangulation info, the should be enough for the cops to forcibly search his home.

 

[Granitehead]

Pretty sure using some advanced things like WiFi connection strength you could figure out the exact flat in a big house. Just give the info to the cops.

 

[thatgui]

Actually, since you have the triangulation info, the should be enough for the cops to forcibly search his home.

Pretty sure using some advanced things like WiFi connection strength you could figure out the exact flat in a big house. Just give the info to the cops.

Thats maybe depending on the location where you live, but around here (and I guess Switzerland isn't that much different in that regard) police officers need a search warrant to enter ones flat/house without its inhabitants permission (except if there is a chance of imminent danger). Having some SMS that shows a vague location ("the thief is somwhere in that building...don't know exactly...just search the whole building") won't be very convincing,

 

[DrHAX]

I'd rather just have a failsafe "bricking" program. You know something that just wipes the system clean leaving it unusable to the average user, as well as logging the GPS. So you could even have it wipe and record and send back GPS data. I don't care about getting it back, if it's stolen from me I just want it to be f#%kin' useless to the thief, maybe even have it display an error screen that correlates to the actions, just encase somebody happens to get a"bricked" Pyra.

 

[WizardStan]

I suspect that the Pyra, as was the Pandora, will be unbrickable, at least in the complete sense. Anyone with a bit of google knowledge should be able to find the instructions to restore it to factory default. You could fake brick it, I suppose: replace the bootloader with an error, make it more difficult for the perpetrator to get it back to working.

 

[mcobit]

Or just have a feature that burns out the soc when called. Should be doable with some 5v realis to the wrong cpu pins, but can also be quite dangerous for the user playing around with it.

 

[WizardStan]

Or just have a feature that burns out the soc when called.

And then your "friend" borrows it for a few minutes "just to try something" and returns a smoking piece of plastic.I will not be buying a Pyra if it is designed to be destroyed on command, I don't have enough trust that someone won't write some kind of app that causes all Pandora's to melt down.

 

[bzar]

^ That would be called pyratechnics.

 

[DrHAX]

I suspect that the Pyra, as was the Pandora, will be unbrickable, at least in the complete sense. Anyone with a bit of google knowledge should be able to find the instructions to restore it to factory default. You could fake brick it, I suppose: replace the bootloader with an error, make it more difficult for the perpetrator to get it back to working.

Hence the quotes. It would be locked down, make it so flashing in that stage is impossible without a Password which would be choosen during the first boot up. It wouldmy be bricked bit to the normal person it would appear corrupt or broken, and if you want transmitting GPS cords when ever it can.
As you said a custom boot loader that would take over and display. Fake errors giving out information regarding to it stolen, also have a very low power state, that way it can send out the GPS cords and such.

 

[Granitehead]

"very low power state" and "GPS" are somewhat contradictory.

thatgui is right in his concerns, although I wouldn't weight them as much (and I don't feel like discussing the subject a lot more...).

You could still reflash the boot loader.

Sure, you could prevent this. But that would be against the Pandora/Pyra spirit. It would be locking it down, and you can never lock it down enough to actually make it secure, someone will always figure out a way to circumvent security measures.

Same for tracking apps installed by default, something like this would need to be /very/ carefully thought about and probably it would still be either ineffective or against the spirit of openness which is so important for Pandora and Pyra.

 

[levi]

I don't see a problem with tracking functions if they're properly secured by password or what have you. If it doesn't do anything until it receives an SMS with the right credentials, people wouldn't feel like they need to remove it, so wouldn't be asking how, so the information on what to do to disable it probably would be relatively hidden in technical docs and IRC chats.


It doesn't even need to be installed by default. Make it a PND (or what have you) that installs its payload to the NAND, after which you can remove the PND (like the codec pack, or the SGX driver installer). It's relatively easy to work out what to remove to undo those installations, once you've researched the PND format enough to be able to unpack it, and understand shell scripting enough to understand the install instructions, but that's quite a bit of learning to do beforehand if you're just the average thief.


Although a reflash would get rid of that, and that's something that I'd expect to be well documented, so perhaps having it built-in is a good idea after all.

 

[Granitehead]

Although a reflash would get rid of that, and that's something that I'd expect to be well documented, so perhaps having it built-in is a good idea after all.

That's why the idea of built in came to me in the first place.But that would mean you need a built in password (which obviously can't be the same for all Pyras). And some other considerations. Maybe we could open a new thread for it, but I'm not sure I feel like spending the time to develop my ideas further.

 

[WizardStan]

You could still reflash the boot loader.

I'm actually thinking about this seriously now. How secure are people willing to accept? At the very heart you can't really prevent a reflash: if things go completely sideways you can always hook up a jtag and reflash it that way. But what if the default bootrom has the ability to lock out reflashes, or does something similar? I just got a Nexus 5 and by default you can't flash custom code as a security measure, but you can easily unlock that feature in the bootrom: when you do, it wipes the phone clean; you can then relock it once you've installed all your custom stuff. This is an extra security measure to ensure that if your phone is stolen the thief can't just flash a custom ROM to bypass your passwords and get at your stuff, they need to unlock the bootrom first which wipes out the private stuff. It doesn't render your phone useless but at least your private information is safe (or as safe as your password, anyway).The Pyra bootrom could do similar: if it receives the special password encrypted SMS it flips a bit in the bootrom which prevents proper booting. In order to fix it you'd need to open up the Pyra, attach a jtag, and wipe the bootrom that way. Even if some malicious code comes along and figures out how to flip the bit without your consent it doesn't render anything permanently damaged, at worst you need to find a friend with a jtag cable and 2 minutes of free time. Such a feature could also easily be disabled in the bootrom (only during boot, don't let the OS have access to that particular bit) if people preferred the idea of their stolen Pandora being easy to reflash vs the risk of something malicious "bricking" it and needing to find a jtag to fix it.