Fcc

[Fishbong]

My (wired) mouse has an FCC label
My Canon Powershot camera has an FCC label

So it seems even devices without any form of intended EM broadcast do need FCC approval.

 

[EvilDragon]

So it seems even devices without any form of intended EM broadcast do need FCC approval.

Nope. They don't. As I mentioned quite a few times on these boards, the only approved FCC certification is the one which have the ID on the device.
Most devices (like the Pandora) only need to be tested to comply the FCC, but no approval nor certification (you need to keep your testing documents ready).
You can put the FCC logo onto the device if you want but you don't need to. Any electronical device needs to be tested, but only a few (the REAL radio devices) need an ID (and those NEED to have the logo and ID printed on it).

 

[spaceballs3000]

So it seems even devices without any form of intended EM broadcast do need FCC approval.

Nope. They don't. As I mentioned quite a few times on these boards, the only approved FCC certification is the one which have the ID on the device.
Most devices (like the Pandora) only need to be tested to comply the FCC, but no approval nor certification (you need to keep your testing documents ready).
You can put the FCC logo onto the device if you want but you don't need to. Any electronical device needs to be tested, but only a few (the REAL radio devices) need an ID (and those NEED to have the logo and ID printed on it).

Something sounds wrong with this statement,

Most devices (like the Pandora) only need to be tested to comply the FCC, but no approval nor certification

Having WiFi radio on this hand held gameing device not the norm for most devices, thus it does need certification/approval.

Pandora contains an intentional RF radiator (the 802.11 module that is not pre FCC certified) and this was discussed earlier here --> http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?/topic/48757-talk-with-a-real-fccce-certification-engineer/

Sounds like you guys (Pandora team and users here) are not understanding the issue... here is a example.. from --> http://openpandora.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=2

Another interesting thing is what he did tell me about FCC.
According to him, we don't even need FCC. FCC is only for radio devices (like wireless microphones, etc.), but not stuff like computers or gaming devices like ours here. They're running an FCC certified testing site, so they should know.

Sounds like the Pandora team didn't tell the FCC certification group that this gaming device has an un-certificated 802.11 radio module in it. Which places it firmly into the wireless microphones, intentional RF radiator category.

The lack of professionalism and understanding here boggles my mind.

 

[TheRain]

^^ I'm sorry, but you kind of sound like a presumptuous jackass.

 

[WizardStan]

Sounds like the Pandora team didn't tell the FCC certification group that this gaming device has an un-certificated 802.11 radio module in it. Which places it firmly into the wireless microphones, intentional RF radiator category.

They didn't have to tell them anything. ED gave the certification guys an actual board and said "here, test this". As far as I can tell, they tested the wifi as well, so the cert guys must have known it contained a wifi transmitter. And then told ED that they didn't need to be certified, just tested.
It's their job, as a certified er... certification... thing to know what they do and do not need to do.

 

[Sphinxter]

^^ I'm sorry, but you kind of sound like a presumptuous jackass.

Seconded. Seems quite clear, http://www.cclab.com/fcc-part-15.htm

 

[spaceballs3000]

.. As far as I can tell, they tested the wifi as well, so the cert guys must have known it contained a wifi transmitter. ...

You assume... i.e. "cert guys must have known", "As far as I can tell"...

 

[gruso]

Sounds like the Pandora team didn't tell the FCC certification group that this gaming device has an un-certificated 802.11 radio module in it. Which places it firmly into the wireless microphones, intentional RF radiator category.

The lack of professionalism and understanding here boggles my mind.

My recollection is that the wifi/BT module already has its own certification. What that actually means for Pandora's FCC compliance I don't really know... or care. Chances are they're just going to ship anyway.

[edit] We were advised last year that the wifi/bt module is the same one used in the HTC Dream (aka T-Mobile G1).

[edit] Recollection wrong, bitch!

 

[wermy]

^^ I'm sorry, but you kind of sound like a presumptuous jackass.

Seconded. Seems quite clear, http://www.cclab.com/fcc-part-15.htm

Thirded. Everyone seems to think they are an expert... One of the little annoyances among all the great things about an open project like this, I guess.

 

[WizardStan]

.. As far as I can tell, they tested the wifi as well, so the cert guys must have known it contained a wifi transmitter. ...

You assume... i.e. "cert guys must have known", "As far as I can tell"...

Of course. I wasn't there, I can't say with absolute certainty. I'm just trusting in what ED has said, which is why I worded it the way I did. "As far as I can tell" because that's all I know from the second hand information ED has given us.

 

[spaceballs3000]

^^ I'm sorry, but you kind of sound like a presumptuous jackass.

Seconded. Seems quite clear, http://www.cclab.com/fcc-part-15.htm

Quite clear? all you say is FCC Part 15... care to be a little more specific on the section where you think I'm wrong?

btw some tips

A device that intentionally generates and emits radio frequency energy by radiation or induction = Intentional radiator

802.11 module = Intentional radiator

The Pandora having a 802.11 module, sections FCC Part 15 Subpart C will apply.

 

[spaceballs3000]

Sounds like the Pandora team didn't tell the FCC certification group that this gaming device has an un-certificated 802.11 radio module in it. Which places it firmly into the wireless microphones, intentional RF radiator category.

The lack of professionalism and understanding here boggles my mind.

My recollection is that the wifi/BT module already has its own certification. What that actually means for Pandora's FCC compliance I don't really know... or care. Chances are they're just going to ship anyway.

[edit] We were advised last year that the wifi/bt module is the same one used in the HTC Dream (aka T-Mobile G1).

If you had read the link I had provided in my earlier post. You would have already known that I have verified (from the manufacture) that Pandora's wifi-BT module does not have it's own certification. i.e. it's not pre module certificated.

Also if this module is used by another product that has it's own FCC ID, it does not automatically propagate backwards making the module approved for everyone else to that FCC ID.

 

[gruso]

If you had read the link I had provided in my earlier post. You would have already known that I have verified (from the manufacture) that Pandora's wifi-BT module does not have it's own certification. i.e. it's not pre module certificated.

Also if this module is used by another product that has it's own FCC ID, it does not automatically propagate backwards making the module approved for everyone else to that FCC ID.

My bad, I was ninjaposting from work and missed the link. I am aware that the FCC status of the wifi module has little bearing on that of Pandora, but like I said, it's not going to keep me up at night.

Why get so worked up about it?

 

[WizardStan]

If you had read the link I had provided in my earlier post. You would have already known that I have verified (from the manufacture) that Pandora's wifi-BT module does not have it's own certification. i.e. it's not pre module certificated.

Also if this module is used by another product that has it's own FCC ID, it does not automatically propagate backwards making the module approved for everyone else to that FCC ID.

By the way, the Wifi/BT module does have FCC certification already. I have a giant document from FCC testing that should really help out the process. The module still needs certification within the Pandora to guarantee we are operating it within the required parameters, but it should go a long way towards making testing simple.

 

[gruso]

spaceball3000's enquiries apparently proved that to be incorrect. But, MWeston and ED acknowledged that back then and a lot has transpired since. My gut feeling for what it's worth: This is a device being made in China/USA, officially sold and shipped from the UK, perhaps unofficially being shipped to Americans from Texas. A situation like this is likely to have intricacies/loopholes that don't need to be shared in gory detail on the forums. We can turn it into a huge controversy, or we can just shut up about it and let them finish the job however they see fit. h34r:

 

[craigix]

It would be much more fun to look at devices currently flying out of Asia which just don't bother with any of this at all. Even the GP2X didn't.

With us doing it right it seems to actually increase intense scrutiny.

 

[Fishbong]

But the GP2X had an FCC logo on it, not an ID but that's not required since it does not cause any intended radiation.